Any issues with milling flaked grains?

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dkeller12

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So I ordered a few kits from NB as I couldn't beat the price locally. One of the kits is the Gaarden Hoe witbier which includes flaked wheat. I usually don't mill flaked wheat as it is not needed, but NB is forcing me to do so since they mixed the flaked wheat with the rest of the unmilled grain bill. Is milling this going to be an issue, or nothing to worry about? I assume no issue, but if this will cause an issue I will contact them about it.

Thoughts???
 

odie

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if it's anything like flaked oats I don't think it will matter. My oats come out the grain mill looking the same they went in.
 

Golddiggie

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Don't know if it will cause any issues, but I've always kept flaked grains separate from the grains going through the malt mill. You would think that NB would be smart enough to not mix it all together so YOU have the choice of how to process things.

Logically, though, it shouldn't matter if it's mixed or not due to how the flaked grains end up when in the mash. All the same, they should either give you the option when you order the kit, or keep the flaked grains out of the mix.

Of course, I've not used a kit since my third batch of beer.
 
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dkeller12

dkeller12

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Yeah, I don't normally use kits either, but I couldn't pass up based on price and the limited time I have to brew, let alone design a recipe these days, so I thought I would just give them a chance again as. I haven't used NB in a while and was surprised when they mixed the grains with the wheat.

Thanks for confirming what I suspected.
 
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dkeller12

dkeller12

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Perhaps cause more gummy consistency in the mash? I've milled and not milled and I didn't notice a difference other than the size of the flaked grains.
I will definitely add rice hulls to counteract that possiblity, that was the first thing I thought about in case it was to be an problem.
 

jcav

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I have read that you don't have to mill flaked grains. Funny, I also read that you can mill them and should to expose more surface areas to the mash and enzymes. I have done it both ways and always use rice hulls, so I never had any issues with either way. Lately I have been milling them to get the most out of them, but that is probably just in my head after reading the article online somewhere. You should be good either way.

John
 

Tobor_8thMan

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I will definitely add rice hulls to counteract that possiblity, that was the first thing I thought about in case it was to be an problem.
Sounds good and sounds as if you are on top/aware of issues that may cause problems.

Based on my experience, skip milling (and milling time) the flaked items as they are already thin and ready to go into the mash.
 

IslandLizard

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No issues milling it, whatsoever.
If the grist also contains wheat malt, use a narrower gap, to make sure those get crushed.

I've always been milling flaked goods, and on a narrow (0.025") "Wheat gap."
For better, faster hydration. Never had issues.

When including a larger % of sticky/gummy adjuncts and malts, add rice hulls. Start with a hand-full or 2, you can always add more if needed.
A true Witbier contains at least 50% raw (flaked) wheat.
 

day_trippr

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There's never a need (and likely no point as they'll mostly pass through completely unmolested) to mill flaked grains.
But, as long as one is not in the habit of conditioning their malt prior to milling, there's no harm in mixing flaked grain into malt, either.
Conditioning malt with mixed in flaked grains greatly risks loading up rollers with grain paste (bt/dt, had to disassemble the mill to clean the rollers).
Don't do that...

Cheers!
 

beersk

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I have read that you don't have to mill flaked grains. Funny, I also read that you can mill them and should to expose more surface areas to the mash and enzymes. I have done it both ways and always use rice hulls, so I never had any issues with either way. Lately I have been milling them to get the most out of them, but that is probably just in my head after reading the article online somewhere. You should be good either way.

John
This has be thinking...I'm always getting shite efficiency with oats and other adjuncts, maybe I should try it. But I suspect that it won't matter.
 

DBhomebrew

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This has be thinking...I'm always getting shite efficiency with oats and other adjuncts, maybe I should try it. But I suspect that it won't matter.
It's a small sample, but I found batches with flaked oats and barley had lower lauter efficiency. Typical loss to grain being ~.09qt/lb, ~1.1 with flaked adjuncts.
 

DuncB

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I don't mill mine and have recently put the flaked grains in last on the top of the other grains in the mash. Use a bit of glucanase instead of rice hulls and give the grain bed a bit of a squeeze at the end of sparging to try and counteract the extra soakup from the flaked grains.
 

IslandLizard

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I don't mill mine and have recently put the flaked grains in last on the top of the other grains in the mash.
The flaked goods are much better off being mixed in with the diastatic malt in order to obtain some decent conversion from them.

Flaked goods are not meant to be used as a mash cap, such as dark roasts/crystals, which get steeped/extracted during the sparge. They need to be converted.
 

DuncB

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@IslandLizard
I'm recirculating so the "mash cap" is bathed in warm enzymes throughout the mash. I started this after the advice by a commercial brewer on a BYO video about making stouts. I haven't noticed any deterioration of efficiency with this and the lauter is good. Come the end of the mash the flaked goods have incorporated into the grains at the top anyway.
 

IslandLizard

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@IslandLizard
I'm recirculating so the "mash cap" is bathed in warm enzymes throughout the mash. I started this after the advice by a commercial brewer on a BYO video about making stouts. I haven't noticed any deterioration of efficiency with this and the lauter is good. Come the end of the mash the flaked goods have incorporated into the grains at the top anyway.
OK, you should get at least some conversion then.
Unless you use relatively small amounts of flaked goods, doesn't that layer plug up the top like a sheet of glue?

I understand the mash cap principle for dark grain, but why not just disperse the flaked grain throughout the grist? That way the husk material from the non-flaked grist helps keeping the grist more permeable. Then when that's not enough (with larger % of flaked goods and gummy malts, such as wheat and rye), we need to add rice or oat hulls.
 

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@IslandLizard
I'm recirculating so the "mash cap" is bathed in warm enzymes throughout the mash. I started this after the advice by a commercial brewer on a BYO video about making stouts. I haven't noticed any deterioration of efficiency with this and the lauter is good. Come the end of the mash the flaked goods have incorporated into the grains at the top anyway.
I do the same. I LOVE witbier, which means using a lot of flaked grain. I fought stuck mashes constantly for a couple batches of wit, then tried this trick. Works great, makes great beer. Stuck mash is no longer a thing, and I don't need to add rice hulls or anything.

My first thought when I read the OP, was that's gonna get stuck. I would not be happy at all if I got that in a kit.
 
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dkeller12

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I do the same. I LOVE witbier, which means using a lot of flaked grain. I fought stuck mashes constantly for a couple batches of wit, then tried this trick. Works great, makes great beer. Stuck mash is no longer a thing, and I don't need to add rice hulls or anything.

My first thought when I read the OP, was that's gonna get stuck. I would not be happy at all if I got that in a kit.
I wasn't happy and NB should not assume that I wanted it mixed in with the other grains. Fingers crossed that all goes smoothly.
 

SanJuanWorm

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Flaked wheat can get a little bit 'gooey' for lack of a better word, it depends if you are throwing out the top part during mash.

Everyone gets after me for doing a secondary, but the gloop will stay in the Primary, send it to the Secondary, happy days.
 
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dkeller12

dkeller12

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Flaked wheat can get a little bit 'gooey' for lack of a better word, it depends if you are throwing out the top part during mash.

Everyone gets after me for doing a secondary, but the gloop will stay in the Primary, send it to the Secondary, happy days.
I will be recirculating during the mash, so if the pump doesn't get fouled I would hope it settles at the top and I can leave most of it behind in the grain bed. I will add plenty of rice hulls just to be on the safe side.

I decided to contact NB just to find out why they mixed these together so I know for the future to request they not do mix them. I would rather make the decision for myself. I am awaiting their response.
 

IslandLizard

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I wasn't happy and NB should not assume that I wanted it mixed in with the other grains. Fingers crossed that all goes smoothly.
Although this is truly a RDWHAHB case, they (NB) guarantee their products.
A simple call to customer service may yield you a new kit... unmixed this time.

[ADDED] 2 batches of Witbier for the price of one. ;)
 
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dkeller12

dkeller12

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Totally agree. This really is nothing in the grand scheme of things these days.
 
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