Any input on this DIPA recipe?

[jgourd]

I figure this will be tasty. Plus, it's my first time trying first wort hopping. Care to critique?

Hop Machine DIPA
----------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal (8.88 gal preboil)
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated FG: 1.020 SG
Estimated IBUs: 129 (Tinseth)
Estimated Color: 11 SRM
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73%
Boil Time: 90 minutes

Grains:
15.00# Northwestern Pale Ale malt (76.19%)
2.00# Munich Malt 10L (10.16%)
1.25# Carapils/Dextrine (6.35%)
0.75# British carastan (3.81%)
0.69# Caravienne Malt (3.49%)

Hops:
0.50 oz Centennial (9.1%) @fwh
0.50 oz Columbus (14.5%) @fwh
0.50 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @fwh
1.00 oz Warrior (15.8%) @90 min
1.00 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @60 min
1.00 oz Centennial (9.1%) @20 min
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) @20 min
1.00 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @20 min
1.00 oz Amarillo (8.6%) @0 min
1.00 oz Cascade (4.6%) @0 min
1.00 oz Centennial (9.1%) @0 min
1.00 oz Amarillo (8.6%) @dry #1
1.00 oz Cascade (4.6%) @dry #1
1.00 oz Centennial (9.1%) @dry #1
0.50 oz Amarillo (8.6%) @dry #2
0.50 oz Cascade (4.6%) @dry #2
0.50 oz Centennial (9.1%) @dry #2
0.50 oz Columbus (14.5%) @dry #2
0.50 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @dry #2

Yeast:
White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) (California Ale)

Mash/Sparge Schedule:
Single Infusion, 150F; Batch Sparge for 90 mins.

Fermentation Schedule:
Primary Fermentation: 14 days @66F
Secondary Fermentation: 7 days @71F

Flame out hops will steep for about 15 mins before collecting the wort. Dry hop #1 will be done in the primary when fermentation is about 95% done. Dry hop #2 will be done in the secondary.

 

[Eastside Brewer]

This recipe looks really tasty!

Just a few comments;
Malt bill, not sure about British Carastan or Caravienne, never used them. I like the munich and the carapils, I usually use a small amount of C-15 and C-120.

Hop Bill, looks amazing!! I have been trying same hop combinations for about a year now with great results. One thing I have noticed is that the FWH gives a softer bittering. The only suggestion I have is to move the 90 min. addittion to to the 60 min. and possibly move the 20 min addittions to 15. I als do multiple hop addittions to dry hop every 3 days for 12 days. Another thing I have tried is using the more piney citrusy hops like Amarillo, cenn. and simcoe for bittering and flavor and then try using Columbus for late boil addittions, and dry hopping, it creates a spicey note.

Anyway, just a few thought from a fellow IIPA enthusiast and Hop Head

Good Luck

Eastside

 

[jgourd]

I think it makes sense to move the 90 min hop addition to 60 min. Also, British carastan is basically C-35 and caravienne is basically C-20. I might try the hop suggestions you mention when I make another IPA later.

 

[jgourd]

Decided I'm going with this for simplicity:

Hop Machine Double IPA
----------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal (8.88 gal preboil)
Estimated OG: 1.085 SG
Estimated FG: 1.020 SG
Estimated IBUs: 129 (Tinseth)
Estimated Color: 11 SRM
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73%
Boil Time: 90 minutes

Grains:
15.00# Northwestern Pale Ale malt (76.92%)
2.00# Munich Malt 10L (10.26%)
1.25# Carapils/Dextrine (6.41%)
1.25# British carastan (6.41%)

Hops:
2.00 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @fwh
1.00 oz Warrior (15.8%) @60 min
1.00 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @60 min
1.50 oz Cascade (4.6%) @20 min
1.25 oz Columbus (14.5%) @20 min
1.25 oz Amarillo (8.6%) @2 min
1.00 oz Centennial (9.1%) @2 min
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) @2 min
1.00 oz Amarillo (8.6%) @dry #1
1.00 oz Centennial (9.1%) @dry #1
1.00 oz Columbus (14.5%) @dry #1
1.00 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @dry #1
0.50 oz Amarillo (8.6%) @dry #2
0.50 oz Centennial (9.1%) @dry #2
0.50 oz Columbus (14.5%) @dry #2
0.50 oz Simcoe (12.2%) @dry #2

Yeast:
White Labs WLP001 (California Ale) (California Ale)

Mash/Sparge Schedule:
Single Infusion, 150F; Batch Sparge

Fermentation Schedule:
Primary Fermentation: 14 days @66F
Secondary Fermentation: 7 days @71F

Dry hop #1 is 14 days. Dry hop #2 is 7 days (last 7 days of dry hop #1).

 

[dcp27]

I'd cut back on the crystal, thats a lot for a DIPA. generally you want it dry, so closer to 5% would be ideal. plus, crystal flavor clashes with hops

IMO, id just FWH your 60min adds too. I don't see a point in having both

 

[jgourd]

I'd cut back on the crystal, thats a lot for a DIPA. generally you want it dry, so closer to 5% would be ideal. plus, crystal flavor clashes with hops

IMO, id just FWH your 60min adds too. I don't see a point in having both

But aren't FWH basically the same as a 20 min addition in terms of effective bitterness? In that case I could increase the 60 min quantities and FWH them.

 

[Poobah58]

FWH provides the same (if not more) bitterness as a 60 min addition. FWH also supplies the same flavor as a 20 min addition (subjective). I use both additions quite frequently for my IPA's and IIPA's. I usually skip the 20 min. addition when I FWH...
Still a bit too much crystal. Here is some good info from the guy at Russian River Brewing:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k98/dstar26t/makingbetterhoppybeer.jpg

 

[Oldsock]

But aren't FWH basically the same as a 20 min addition in terms of effective bitterness?

FWH provide similar bitterness to hops that are added at the start of the boil as far as I am aware.

Hop schedule looks good to me (although I tend to skip the mid-boil additions and concentrate on flame-out). I would scale back the crystal malt, as is I'd suspect that the sweetness will taste more like an American Barleywine. A pound of sugar in place of some of the malt isn't a bad idea either to help dry it out.

Make sure you are taking all those hops into account for the efficiency. I tend to lose ~20% system efficiency when I do a DIPA because of the wort loss to the hops.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

I'd cut out almost all of the British Malt & Carapils, just keep a 1/2lb total. My DIPA is a 1/2lb of 40l & Two Row to an OG of 1.090 and it's plenty Malty. I'm probably going to replace some of the Two Row with Corn Sugar to dry it out a bit more. I basically try to follow Vinnie Cirlurzo's method of keeping the grain bill simple and trying to create a very fermentable Wort. Hop schedule looks great!

 

[kanzimonson]

Where is all this freakin confusion coming from about FWH being as bitter as a 20 minute addition? This is driving me crazy.

 

[Oldsock]

Where is all this freakin confusion coming from about FWH being as bitter as a 20 minute addition? This is driving me crazy.

The confusion is that people "originally" talked about them as a replacement mid-boil "flavor" additions. Some people misunderstood this to mean that they gave similar bitterness.

 

[jgourd]

Well now it makes more sense. So suppose my boil time is 90 mins. Would I use 90 mins for the hop addition to calculate the IBUs for the FWH? Should I add some scaling factor like 10% to the resulting IBUs? And then I'd consider that it would impart flavor on the order of a 20 min hop addition?

 

[kanzimonson]

You'll probably be close enough just calculating it as a 90min addition.

I don't really calculate my IBUs in my DIPAs... I just go with a standard 2oz of really high alpha hops at 60min, and then pick my late hops. I just assume the bitterness is at its max.

 

[jgourd]

FWH provide similar bitterness to hops that are added at the start of the boil as far as I am aware.

Hop schedule looks good to me (although I tend to skip the mid-boil additions and concentrate on flame-out). I would scale back the crystal malt, as is I'd suspect that the sweetness will taste more like an American Barleywine. A pound of sugar in place of some of the malt isn't a bad idea either to help dry it out.

Make sure you are taking all those hops into account for the efficiency. I tend to lose ~20% system efficiency when I do a DIPA because of the wort loss to the hops.

I've scaled back the crystal to only 11 oz. of carastan (and removed the carapils). I've also added some corn sugar to help dry the beer out as suggested. I also increase my batch size to 6 gals when brewing highly hopped beers to account for wort loss.

 

[jgourd]

FWH provides the same (if not more) bitterness as a 60 min addition. FWH also supplies the same flavor as a 20 min addition (subjective). I use both additions quite frequently for my IPA's and IIPA's. I usually skip the 20 min. addition when I FWH...
Still a bit too much crystal. Here is some good info from the guy at Russian River Brewing:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k98/dstar26t/makingbetterhoppybeer.jpg

Thanks for that. Great info!