Any guesses as to what would happen if I added Rauch Malt to Wheat/Maris Otter?

[TasunkaWitko]

Okay, this might not be feasible at all, so I'm just throwing it out there - any general ideas on what I would end up with would be appreciated.

This is for a 1-gallon batch. I am not shooting for any particular style or flavor profile, but I do want to end up with something that will be drinkable as far as taste goes.

I have 1 pound each of American Wheat and Maris Otter, already mixed together. I am considering adding some Rauch (smoked) malt to this; perhaps .2 pounds, perhaps a little more, perhaps a little less. My understanding is that the malts for a 1-gallon batch of beer shouldn't total too much more than 2 pounds, but I could be wrong.

The hops I have available to me are Amarillo and Mandarina Bavaria.

Anyway, my question is more along the lines of whether adding the Rauch would even be a good idea, as far as the taste of the final product. Has anyone ever tried anything similar? Would the Wheat/Maris Otter be a good match for the Rauch, or should I simply brew the them and save the Rauch for something else? For that matter, would the Wheat and Maris Otter be good on their own? I am more than happy to hold onto the Rauch and save it for a more appropriate project (such as a smoked wheat beer), if that would be the better thing to do.

I've got a batch of Chestnut Brown Ale to brew next, and then I wanted to move forward with this project, so I'd be grateful for any direction. I do not have an LHBS within 200 miles, so these ingredients are what I have - I am simply looking to make the best of them.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Something else that I just thought of:

I have several Brooklyn Brew Shop pre-packaged mixes in my pipeline, ready to brew when I get time, and I could probably swap out the hops from one of them with the hops that I bought.

For one example, the pre-packaged mix for Grapefruit Honey Ale uses Cascade or Chinook hops, but the Amarillo hops mentioned above would be as good (or possibly better) to use.

With that in mind, it is at least possible that I have more hop choices than those mentioned in my first post.

Ron

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

American Wheat...malted or otherwise?

Either way, it's definitely going to come out full-bodied...

This could actually be pretty good, sort of a "burnt toast" kind of beer. I'd suggest hopping with restraint, and focusing on the malt flavor; maybe just a modest bittering addition. The Chinook might be a good choice, from the descriptions I can find, though I don't think I've used that one. Cascade's probably not bad either.

Also, it's fine to use more than 2 pounds of malt in a 1-gallon batch in principle: it'll just mean a higher gravity beer. I imagine there are practical limits, but I just made a round of BIAB mini-batches that fit into 1 gallon jugs for fermentation (so like 3/4 gal final), to get a better feel for different malt flavors, with 2.5lb grain for each, and had no trouble.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

The American wheat is ready to brew, yes.

 

[Qhrumphf]

There's a style called Grätzer/Grodziskie (depending on which language, the first being the German name and the second the original Polish name, if I recall correctly) that's made from 100% oak smoked wheat. Now, you're not using 100% wheat, and your Rauchmalz is normally beechwood smoked, not oak smoked. So it won't be particularly similar.

There's also Lichtenhainer, which while it doesn't necessarily have to contain wheat if I remember correctly, often it does, and it's also smoked, with the Rauchmalz character being more appropriate. That one is a a sour beer, so again not really what you're going for.

Point here is not to say you should brew either one of those, just that the concept of wheat/smoke is sound. I'd say you're good with where you're going using them all. Rauchmalz is pretty subtle compared to other smoked malts, so you could probably use a bit more than 0.2 pounds. I'd say for a 2 lb grain bill, I'd start at either 0.25 or 0.5 lbs depending on how much smoke you want, and go from there. You may find that even 25% (0.5 lbs in a 2 lb grain bill) isn't enough, and want to use more than that next time. Or maybe your 0.2 lbs is perfect. But typically when using Rauchmalz I'm in the ~30% range (but I don't brew many smoked beers, so take my advice with a grain of salt).

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

The American wheat is ready to brew, yes.

Let me rephrase: is it Malted Wheat, or Flaked Wheat?

Rauchmalz is pretty subtle compared to other smoked malts, so you could probably use a bit more than 0.2 pounds. I'd say for a 2 lb grain bill, I'd start at either 0.25 or 0.5 lbs depending on how much smoke you want, and go from there. You may find that even 25% (0.5 lbs in a 2 lb grain bill) isn't enough, and want to use more than that next time. Or maybe your 0.2 lbs is perfect. But typically when using Rauchmalz I'm in the ~30% range (but I don't brew many smoked beers, so take my advice with a grain of salt).

Data point: I used 4 lbs of smoked malt in a 22lb grain bill for a ~5 gallon Smoked Honey Imperial Porter recently. It's nearly ready to bottle and...actually already drinkable, but the smoke character is kind of dominating and needs to smooth out a bit.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Hey, guys - thanks for the replies. I definitely appreciate them, and they make me feel like I am at least on a working track.

NIFZ - I believe it is malted wheat. Keep in mind this was my first visit to an LHBS, and up until now, I've only used pre-mixed malts from BBS (which have been excellent). I told the guy that I want to make a wheat beer, and that's what he gave me. The Maris Otter addition came a little bit later; purely a whim on my part.

Your "burnt toast" description is similar to what I got to thinking as I was typing my OP. I was envisioning something along the lines of a campfire breakfast, with the citrus hops (if used) possibly serving as an essence of orange or grapefruit juice. Add maple sugar or syrup as the priming sugar, and it could be interesting. I even thought a moment about bringing bacon to this brewing party, but decided that might be too far out there.

Qrumphf - The percentages you mention make sense to me; I made a 2-gallon batch of Smoked Wheat ale last year that was very good; it was so good, in fact, that my #2 son and his friend ran off and drank all except 2 bottles of it! In any case, that recipe - if I recall, used .2 pounds of Rauch per gallon, and the smoke, while good, seemed just a bit subtle.

I don't mean to put you guys on the spot, but do you think that .25 pounds of it would be enough to bring it out a little more, or should I go all the way to .3 pounds? I want it to be present, so that it can compliment, but I don't want it to take over.

Also, FWIW, I checked my notes on my Grapefruit Honey Ale project, and turns out I had used Columbia hops, not Chinook or Cascade. Since I want to try the Amarillo hops with the next Grapefruit Honey Ale that I brew, I might simply use the Columbia for this project, assuming that I can figure out a decent hop schedule that adds a little bitterness without interfering too much with everything else.

Thanks again for your advice and help, guys -

Ron

 

[Jonkl]

It sounds like you're on the right track. I think you could maybe go above 0.3lbs with the rauchmalt, if you really want, but you're probably pretty close for a first attempt at the concept.

I've done quite a few 1gal batches and, depending on your efficiency, just over 2lbs is probably pretty good ballpark.

Your grist, with, say, 0.1oz of the Amarillo and Mandarina Bavaria at 60/10/0 or so sounds like a really good beer.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Hi, Jonkl, and thanks for weighing in. It sounds as though the citrusy hops are on the right track, so Ill forge ahead.

If I read your suggestion correctly, you're proposing equal amounts of the Amarillo and Mandarina Bavaria, totaling .1oz (.05 of each), and divided equally for adding to the boil at 60, 10 and zero? If so, that sounds like an interesting combination, and I'd be interested in trying it.

As for the Rauchmalz, I guess I'll go with an even third (.33) of a pound and call it good. The goal is to have the smoke be definitely present, but not so "in your face" as a true Rauchbier. I've had one before, and it was just a bit too much. This will leave 2/3 of a pound that I can use for future tweaks/adjustments.

If anyone sees a huge flaw in this, please feel free to let me know, and thanks again.

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Also, FWIW, I checked my notes on my Grapefruit Honey Ale project, and turns out I had used Columbia hops, not Chinook or Cascade. Since I want to try the Amarillo hops with the next Grapefruit Honey Ale that I brew, I might simply use the Columbia for this project, assuming that I can figure out a decent hop schedule that adds a little bitterness without interfering too much with everything else.

Columbia? Not Columbus.

Where'd you get them? O.O

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Hi, NIFZ -

It's possible that it should actually be Columbia, but what I'm showing is indeed Columbus. They came with the Grapefruit Honey Ale mix from Brooklyn Brew Shop and are described here:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/themash/hop-of-the-month-columbus/

 

[Jonkl]

Hi, Jonkl, and thanks for weighing in. It sounds as though the citrusy hops are on the right track, so Ill forge ahead.

If I read your suggestion correctly, you're proposing equal amounts of the Amarillo and Mandarina Bavaria, totaling .1oz (.05 of each), and divided equally for adding to the boil at 60, 10 and zero? If so, that sounds like an interesting combination, and I'd be interested in trying it.

As for the Rauchmalz, I guess I'll go with an even third (.33) of a pound and call it good. The goal is to have the smoke be definitely present, but not so "in your face" as a true Rauchbier. I've had one before, and it was just a bit too much. This will leave 2/3 of a pound that I can use for future tweaks/adjustments.

If anyone sees a huge flaw in this, please feel free to let me know, and thanks again.

Depending on how much of each hop you have, and how much you're willing to use, you could mix and match.

Sorry for being unclear, but I was thinking 0.2oz total at each 60/10/0, and just figured an even split would work. You could probably go 0.4oz total at flameout, too. That should get you in the ballpark of a solid hop character that supports and doesn't overpower the malts.

 

[TasunkaWitko]

Understood - thanks!

 

[NoIguanaForZ]

Hi, NIFZ -

It's possible that it should actually be Columbia, but what I'm showing is indeed Columbus. They came with the Grapefruit Honey Ale mix from Brooklyn Brew Shop and are described here:

http://brooklynbrewshop.com/themash/hop-of-the-month-columbus/

Damn. I got excited for a moment.

Ah well.