Any active Kvass brewers out there?

[robint]

I have been brewing a few batches now with surprising results. I started along this trail as I have several sociable East European neighbours who spiked my interest in this traditional recipe (going back 1000 years and widespread throughout the East - as common as English Ale was to us Brits.)

Here is an original thread with very informative background
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/russian-kvas.468209/#post-603

I was further encouraged because getting raw ingredients in UK is expensive and you need ca 2kg grain for 4.5L of liquid product. (1.2qt/lb US). Its cheaper to buy bottled real ale from supermarkets. There are no more Homebrew shops near me or in my county.

Then I thought about wholemeal bread (the proper stuff btw) and obviously this is Wheat grains and lesser Rye as well. Another important ingredient is sultanas then stir up with few spoons of bakers yeast and sprinkle in some white sugar for ABV to taste (aimed at 4.5%) and you are in business.

There's a bit more to it of course but active brewers dont need to be told here.

My brews have turned out like a traditional sweetish brown ale and does clarify within 2 weeks. So far so good

There are many interesting natural flavourings you can add like cinammon sticks, cloves, star anise black tea, mint and thats before going toward fruit (not yet). Its a whole acreage to be explored once throwing of the indentured preconception of hopped beer and lager. IMHO it has an entirely valid place on a brewing shelf.

BTW dont be clouded by an image of liquid yeasty bread - you would be very surprised at results (but Big Corp Brewers wont like this).

What do you brews think?

Here is my 2 week old Kvass Brown Ale ca 4%

 

[Halfakneecap]

My mother in law has russian heritage. I think they just use bread. You can buy it here, its not easy to get but theyll get a bottle when they go to the few russian shops around. Usually less than 2% alcohol and dark brown. They used to make it but again, im sure it was just the dark rye bread, and sultanas only to carbonate. Ive always found it to be very lightly carbed, and very sweet.

We only really have it on Orthodox easter.

 

[jschein]

I no longer use cinnamon due to lead issues. To help fermentation I do use some beta glutamate to help get some abv

 

[robint]

I no longer use cinnamon due to lead issues. To help fermentation I do use some beta glutamate to help get some abv

OOh Err /CINNAMON Lead poisoning?

What another scare story. as exposed by https://arstechnica.com/science/202...ouldnt-freak-out-about-lead-in-your-cinnamon/

A teaspoon of powder is a lot flavoured sawdust to consume?

I dont use powdered cinnamon, prefer the stick kind

 

[robint]

My mother in law has russian heritage. I think they just use bread. You can buy it here, its not easy to get but theyll get a bottle when they go to the few russian shops around. Usually less than 2% alcohol and dark brown. They used to make it but again, im sure it was just the dark rye bread, and sultanas only to carbonate. Ive always found it to be very lightly carbed, and very sweet.

We only really have it on Orthodox easter.

Yes trad kvass just uses farmhouse style rye bread and relies on natural yeast from sultanas. Put it in a pot to mash by the hearth fire overnight, then strain and leave in cold cupboard for a few days.
But jazz it up with some baker's yeast and sprinkle on several spoons of white sugar and you get Kvass for Big Kids heh heh as per my pic above

For its simplicity and its pure flavour, its a forgotten style IMHO. BTW after a few days to finish ferment its not unduly sweet. Im going to see how light co2 will perform (given that trad brown ale was flat from a wooden cask?).

It must be said that its a style that takes getting used to - but then - so does cloudy German Weisse Bier, not to be sneered at AFAIK.

 

[jschein]

OOh Err /CINNAMON Lead poisoning?

What another scare story. as exposed by https://arstechnica.com/science/202...ouldnt-freak-out-about-lead-in-your-cinnamon/

A teaspoon of powder is a lot flavoured sawdust to consume?

I dont use powdered cinnamon, prefer the stick kind

Well … the powder comes from the sticks, just sayin’

 

[robint]

Well … the powder comes from the sticks, just sayin’

You dont eat the sticks but do consume powder (in cooking)

 

[fluketamer]

"you need ca 2kg grain for 4.5L of liquid product. (1.2qt/lb US)."

this is incorrect. actually magnitudes off.

from a simple google search,
0.12kg (roughly) will give you one liter of 1.045 beer,

multiplying by 4.5

.54 kg will give you 4.5 liter of 1.045 beer.

2 kg per 4.5 l is like 1.200 wort .

i am pretty sure you can make beer for less than the price of store bought. even in the UK. i know i can here even cheaper then macro beers.

https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/best-price-for-ingredients.103905/

i have sampled a lot of kvas. differnet brands even high end kvass of which there is no such thing. it is a peasants drink. its sweet. lightly or unhopped. 2 percent abv maybe 2.5 . very very bready. not good .

i think what you are after is cheap highly drinkable alcoholic beverages.

turbo ciders or supermarket juice wines fit that bill. these definately have a place in homebrewing.

you can make these almost exclusively from supermarket ingredients and little to no equpiment very cheaply.

lose the raisens and the bread. get 100 percent juices AND yeast nutrient AND wine cider or ale yeast ,
make apple or red or white grape based wines/ ciders.

these are very good. and if you have the patience to age them. months to years, these are of higher quality than what most people can make.

if you absolutely must use bakers yeast maybe add clove orange peel ginger cinnamon those kind of things to mask the yeast flavor thats almost impossible to completely get rid of with bakers yeast. bakers yeast is for baking not brewing.
i havent been able to make anythihng thasts worth drinkng with bakers yeast.

 

[robint]

Your wise word are appreciated

 

[HM-2]

i am pretty sure you can make beer for less than the price of store bought. even in the UK. i know i can here even cheaper then macro beers.

Oh, you absolutely can.

The most expensive beer I've ever brewed- a 11% triple IPA with half a kilo of fancy hops in a 25L fermenter / 19L keg volume batch cost about £85 in raw ingredients. Excluding time- this is a hobby, after all- that works out about £2.58 a pint. For an equivalent strength beer of the same type in a brew pub or tap room, twelve quid? Fifteen? Maybe even eighteen ? Most would serve that strength beer by the half or third. Probably eight to twelve quid a can from a bottle shop.

My "bog standard" best bitter that I brew every 3 or so months is about a quid a pint in terms of ingredients. It stands up perfectly well to five-or-six quid a pint cask ale and wipes the floor, IMO, with most traditional British beer inspired keg stuff you'll see in a craft brewery. You can get Fuller's ESB from the supermarket for about £2.50 a bottle, London Pride is about £1.75 a can, but smaller volume brewers, expect £3-4 as a starting point.

My last Belgian Triple came in at about 105p a pint. For 9% beer. The cheapest I think I've ever seen a Tripel in a supermarket is Karmeliet which goes for £5-6 per 750ml bottle.

 

[robint]

Yes sound observations. Do you have a shop or warehouse locally you can get your gear?
I have to order everything to be delivered and courier/RM costs are significant especially for anything >2kg so a bag of barley £6 + £3.50 pnp. It adds up

What irony, I live in Kent home of Hop culture. There is no home brew at all round here. I think they all grow wacky baccy in their sheds now.

 

[Halfakneecap]

Yes trad kvass just uses farmhouse style rye bread and relies on natural yeast from sultanas. Put it in a pot to mash by the hearth fire overnight, then strain and leave in cold cupboard for a few days.
But jazz it up with some baker's yeast and sprinkle on several spoons of white sugar and you get Kvass for Big Kids heh heh as per my pic above

For its simplicity and its pure flavour, its a forgotten style IMHO. BTW after a few days to finish ferment its not unduly sweet. Im going to see how light co2 will perform (given that trad brown ale was flat from a wooden cask?).

It must be said that its a style that takes getting used to - but then - so does cloudy German Weisse Bier, not to be sneered at AFAIK.

Not sure if there are any russian grocers near you but you can buy it, imported from Russia. Might be worth a try to compare. Its ok, but i much prefer cherry vodka at easter

 

[robint]

Yeah we got a big Polish deli nearby, Ill czech it out and it does great Rye bread. problem with that place is that it is stocked with goods from Estonia all the way down E EU to Hungary. 8 countries with 8 different languages not mutually intelligible - what a nightmare. Shrillick even

 

[HM-2]

Yes sound observations. Do you have a shop or warehouse locally you can get your gear?

Malt Miller are fairly local to me (about a 45 minute drive) and probably the biggest supplier in the country.

P&P is free on orders over £65 so I just order big and infrequently. Big bags of Warminster floor malt MO work out £1.92 a kilo and with a few packs of hops no postage costs.

 

[robint]

@HM-2 Well thanx Brewbro IIRC that Waddies country and havent they got the craziest magic roundabout in Wilts
I take your point - will study. You have to get gear from an industrial warehouse these days.

 

[HM-2]

They're just off the A419 so you don't have to brave the Magic Roundabout to go there.

There's quite a few decent places when it comes to mail order- Malt Miller (Swindon, sell everything), The Home Brew Shop (Farnborough, better on the kits and gear side than ingredients but still stock decent amounts) CrossMyLoof (Glasgow, smaller supplier but decent selection) and London Beer Lab (London, smaller selection but good for niche stuff) tend to be those I use the most.

There's also Get'er'Brewed up in Antrim who are great, but for obvious reasons can be a bit slower to deliver daan saaf.