ANVIL FOUNDRY ALL-GRAIN BREWING SYSTEM

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Grist Ratio calculated at 1.25/Gallon

If that's overall water volume to grains, it'll be less inside the pipe. Very close to a gallon is lost under the pipe and another 30% of what's remaining is outside the pipe. It seems to work, but it's a thing to consider. I still don't see it as "the" problem, but it oculd be one of a few small things.

You could consider skipping the sparge and getting all that water in the kettle for mashing. Generally you'll be less efficient, but - you might end up more predictable. Something like 80% for 5% ABV beers, 70% for 8% ABV beers, etc.

Lifting and lowering a few times during the mash, in my experience (not all agree but it seems most do) makes a big difference. I see you did that but maybe that & stirring done a couple additional times could help.
 

DuncB

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Anvil is 10 Gallon Version - 120V

Grist Ratio calculated at 1.25/Gallon - however set default sparge volume to 2 gallons. Math checked out volume wise

I've been taken to task on these questions in a few previous threads when seeking advice


So 1.25 / gallon means that you used 12 gallons of water in your 10 gallon Anvil for 15lb of grain ?

for the 13.75 lb of grain the mash volume was 11 gallons?

I have used a robobrew and a guten 70 which are similar systems but can't get these volumes and ratios in my vessels.
How do you do this?

After draining with an assumed loss of 0.7l per kg , converted that's 1.25 gallon of loss, you then sparged 2 gallons on top of the remaining 10.75 gallons? for the 15lb brew.

Based on the info you have provided your liquor to grist ratio was 6.66 for the mash which means your mash efficiency for no sparge off this chart about 83%, you'll get a bit more extraction with your sparge.

Mash Sparge Liquor.JPG


Can you provide the volumes and gravity pre boil ( compensated for the temperature)?

Mash efficiency and extraction is what you need to look at for your case

@micraftbeer
Provided this helpful info to me
@DuncB , sounds like you've worked your grain crush to the point you'd want- just shy of stuck mash. If you're worried about doing a sparge taking longer to boil, if you have another pot you could put on your stove and heat the water to like 168F, that would be a typical mash out temperature. Depending on your space and options that might be more of a pain than it's worth, but I've found a single sparge (not full volume mash) is a significant boost in conversion efficiency.

I'm sure I've done conversion efficiency experiments on the Mash & Boil in the past trying to characterize the effect of sparge, but can't seem to find it. I did however find my experiment on the Anvil Foundry, which is the same type of system. For my experiment I used grain all from the same 55lb sack, then mashed at common temperature/time with same additives, but varied the mash process. First was full-volume mash, next was full-volume mash but recirculating throughout mash with a pump, and last was mashing at a loose 2.4 qt/lb, followed by pouring 1.5 gallons of sparge water through the basket (Anvil 6.5, making a 3.5 gallon batch). The results were striking: 1) Full volume 72% mash efficiency, 2) Full volume + recirc 74%, 3) Recirc + single sparge 87% mash efficiency.

So if you can find a way to get some hot water (but not too hot) to do a sparge, you might get some good improvement.
and
@doug293cz

provided this info in the same thread

Yeah the formula is utter gibberish. There are real formulas for efficiency:
Conversion Efficiency = Wt of Extract Created in Mash / Wt of Potential Extract in Grain​
Lauter Efficiency = Wt of Extract Collected in BK / Wt of Extract Created in Mash​
Mash Efficiency = Wt of Extract Collected in BK / Wt of Potential Extract in Grain​
Mash Efficiency = Conversion Efficiency * Lauter Efficiency (algebra from 1st 3 formulas)
Brewhouse Efficiency = Wt of Extract Collected in Fermenter / Wt of Potential Extract in Grain​
Packaged Efficiency (or End-to-End Efficiency) = Wt of Extract in Packaged Beer / Wt of Potential Extract in Grain​
Extract is all the dissolved components in the wort. Extract is about 90% sugars and dextrins, with the balance being mostly protein, and some other minor components.

Conversion of starch to sugar and dextrins is a two step process: gelatinization followed by hydrolysis. Hydrolysis is the breaking down of the long starch chains into dextrins and sugars. Hydrolysis is catalyzed by the enzymes (alpha and beta amylase, and limit dextrinase.) Gelatinization must occur before hydrolysis can occur, because hydrolysis requires that the end of the chain being hydrolyzed be surrounded by water (each bond broken requires one water molecule to react with the bond in order to break it.) Hydrolysis also requires an enzyme molecule to be in contact with the bond being broken, and since the enzymes are large protein molecules, they cannot penetrate into the dense un-gelatinized starch granule structure.

Gelatinization is slower than hydrolysis, and must happen first, so it is the step that controls the overall rate of conversion (i.e. the rate controlling step.) Rate of conversion is controlled by the rate of gelatinization.

Gelatinization starts at the surface of the grits and proceeds inward. The larger the grit, the longer it takes to fully gelatinize the grit. This is the reason that crush fineness is the most important factor in determining the time to complete gelatinization, and thus the time to complete conversion.

The rate of gelatinization is also temperature dependent - it occurs faster at higher temperatures. The rate of gelatinization at a particular temperature is affected by the internal structure of the starch granules. So, some starch granules require higher temps to gelatinize at a given rate than other starch granules. Since gelatinization is faster at higher temperatures, conversion is faster at higher temperatures.

So, smaller grits and higher temperatures lead to faster gelatinization completion, and thus faster conversion completion. There is a limit on raising the temperature to reduce the mash time because as the temps get higher the rates of enzyme denaturing also increase, and at high enough temperatures the enzymes denature faster than gelatinization can complete, and conversion stops.

Mash thickness has a small effect on rate of conversion, and thus required mash time for complete conversion. Kai Troester has shown that thinner mashes convert slightly faster than thick mashes (more strike water is better.)

pH affects primarily the rate at which the enzymes cause hydrolysis, so as long as the pH is in a range that hydrolysis occurs faster than gelatinization, it doesn't really affect conversion efficiency. As state in a post above range is about 5.0 to 6.0 (5.2 to 5.8 would be a more conservative range.)

Edit: We do have a data point now that demonstrates that in cases of excessively low pH, enzyme action (but not gelatinization) will be shut down almost completely. Unfortunately, there were no pH readings taken of the mash.

The net is that the time to get to 100% conversion is an interaction between gist size, mash temp, and mash time. No one has come up with a formula that predicts this (AFAIK.) It is possible to measure the percent conversion by measuring the SG of the wort in the mash. Turns out the SG at 100% conversion is a function of only grain bill weight, grain bill weighted potential, and strike water volume. So, to get complete conversion you can just mash until the SG in the mash is equal to the max possible SG (spreadsheet attached below.) You can approximate conversion efficiency by using either of the formulas below (the rigorous formula is a little more complicated, but the errors of the simplified formula are small when you are close to 100% conversion):
Conversion Efficiency = Measured °Plato / Max °Plato​
Conversion Efficiency = (Measured SG - 1) / (Max SG -1)​
Lauter efficiency depends on the sparge process used. It's possible to accurately predict lauter efficiency for batch and no sparge (as long as the wort in the mash is thoroughly mixed prior to run off.) With batch sparging more sparge steps give higher efficiency, but each additional step provides a smaller increment of improvement vs. the previous sparge step (assuming a constant pre-boil volume - same amount of total brewing water.) Fly sparging, if done well, can give a slightly higher lauter efficiency than a triple batch sparge, but it is possible to get lower lauter efficiency if you have channeling during fly sparging. Accurately predicting fly sparge lauter efficiency requires solving differential equations whose parameters depend heavily on the specific equipment and process details, so hasn't been done for a homebrew situation (AFAIK.) Lauter efficiency for all methods decreases with increasing grain bill weight for a given pre-boil volume. Increasing pre-boil volume will compensate for larger grain bills, but then you have to boil off more water to reach a specific post-boil volume target.

As stated above the difference between mash efficiency and brewhouse efficiency is all about volume left behind in the BK and any plumbing.



Brew on :mug:

@micraftbeer figures also fit well with the graph I have inserted.
 

JoeSpartaNJ

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I've been taken to task on these questions in a few previous threads when seeking advice


So 1.25 / gallon means that you used 12 gallons of water in your 10 gallon Anvil for 15lb of grain ?

for the 13.75 lb of grain the mash volume was 11 gallons?

I have used a robobrew and a guten 70 which are similar systems but can't get these volumes and ratios in my vessels.
How do you do this?

After draining with an assumed loss of 0.7l per kg , converted that's 1.25 gallon of loss, you then sparged 2 gallons on top of the remaining 10.75 gallons? for the 15lb brew.

Based on the info you have provided your liquor to grist ratio was 6.66 for the mash which means your mash efficiency for no sparge off this chart about 83%, you'll get a bit more extraction with your sparge.

View attachment 756919

Can you provide the volumes and gravity pre boil ( compensated for the temperature)?

Mash efficiency and extraction is what you need to look at for your case

@micraftbeer
Provided this helpful info to me

and
@doug293cz

provided this info in the same thread



@micraftbeer figures also fit well with the graph I have inserted.

1.25 quarts/lb, not gallons.
 

DuncB

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That's a pretty stiff mash then and not that surprising that your efficiency was lower.

I normally aim for a 3 to 1 ratio at least for the mash and that improved my mash efficiency, it's normal on all of the all in one systems to get less efficiency overall when it is used at maximum grain capacity.

My robobrew 35 which is basically 10 us gallons would have very poor efficiency with your grist and water. A reiterated mash or smaller batch would improve your numbers. The other thing to check is the temperature of the grain bed during the mash is it at your Mash temperature as set on the thermostat.
 

JoeSpartaNJ

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I have found that, with all other things being equal, the small batch adapter makes a huge difference in mash efficiency.

I was going to try that next, even while using the bag. Just worried the "prongs" on the inside of the ring may rip the bag.
 

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What boil-off do you have set for your calculations? Are you seeing post mash boil volumes to be accurate?
 

JoeSpartaNJ

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What boil-off do you have set for your calculations? Are you seeing post mash boil volumes to be accurate?

Boils off is scheduled is set to 1/2 Gallon per hour....Which is pretty accurate. (I normally only do 30 minute boils.)

All final volumes are usually spot on.
 

Knightshade

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Anybody else seeing this w/theirs? Sent an email w/pics to Anvil support yesterday afternoon, waiting to see what they say.

Kinda wondering if I introduced the problem by sealing the unit with silicon. I did this w/the mentality that it would prevent moisture from getting in there just in case I had a boil over, or got sloppy with cleaning it.

IMG_6316.jpeg
IMG_6317.jpeg
 

Knightshade

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So Anvil support got back to me and provided some instructions on how to disassemble the unit to clean the screen. Which...I'm not so sure I really want to do. Or I'll wait until it gets to the point where I can't read it anymore, it is pretty involved.

But what I found interesting was this statement.

"It looks like you have sealed it up from the outside, but there is still ways for vapors to get inside."

Which has me thinking that I probably created this problem by sealing the damn thing up...because as I mentioned I've never had a boil over, nor have I ever dumped contents out of the Foundry on the electronics side. Very odd..
 

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Same here, I did the screen 360 and the black plastic part only the left / top / right and left the bottom open. "just in case". Although - some beer could probably wick up in there. But luckily so far I've only ever had a few drips and no real amount to worry about.
 

DuncB

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I forgot to post this reply yesterday but will still send it although you've heard from Anvil. Yesterday my feeling was Looks like it has got growth between the layers over the LCD or contamination is on the underside of the screen you can touch and not into the LCD. If that's the case you should be able to take it apart and clean the inside of the screen. Maybe some dessicant packets in the box next time before sealing it up and a good clean of the circuit board and inners with some ethyl alcohol.

Depends where you keep the anvil but brewing is a high humidity activity and this could have been caused by condensation hence my thoughts about the dessicant in there for the future.
 

Knightshade

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There is a lot of dis-assembly required to clean that out. Attached are the instructions for wiring and getting to the screen.
It looks like you have sealed it up from the outside, but there is still ways for vapors to get inside.

Happy Brewing!
<Name Removed>
Design Engineer
Customer Service
Anvil Brewing Equipment


They sent me a doc which outlines the removal of 26 electrical connectors, 4 screws, removal of foam to get to the LCD screen, for the possibility of cleaning the screen. Then I need to put it all back together.

So...as I mentioned, I'll probably wait until I can't see the damn thing at all before I even entertain this idea. That way..if something goes wrong, it is still unusable, just moreso after the mess-up.
 

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just an update I'm somehow getting much more flavor from the hops using this anvil, I cant figure it out either my other system is a 25 gallon 3 pot system and recipes are cut in half with the same %
Interesting. Nothing different on the cold side? Are you treating the hops differently on the hot side? Like using a sock on old system but letting them roam free in the foundry?
 

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Hey all,

So a good friend of mine bought me 1lb of each mosaic, galaxy, simcoe. In hopes to maybe use them inside a NEIPA.

I got a pretty simple 5gal grain bill consisting of

2row
Golden promise
Carapils
White wheat
Flaked oats.


Will prob throw some ricehulls in for ease. Using 10.5 anvil.


Basically looking for suggestions on hop scheduling and additions and how much?

What you guys think??
 

MicahMan

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I am making a wisen bock today. I went through a complicated step mash and it worked great. When I went to ramp up to boil, no heat!!!!
I am using 240v and I have power. Everything looks normal and the screen is correct. I have reset with the switch and the pin. The fan is running. It just won’t heat up. Any ideas?
 

DuncB

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That is frustrating, no way that it has inadvertently set a step or time that you have already reached in your program.

Can you go to a manual mode and just set the temperature to 100 celsius and try that?
 

Brewdog80

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Anvil has no step programming all manual. But it might be confused if you changed temps a lot. I would unplug and leave off 10 or 15 minutes and then turn it back on. If it doesn't give you error, reads temp correctly, but then doesn't heat, it Is something gone bad. I wouldn't expect the element to die like that, but something on the board. I haven't looked at schematic, may be fuse hidden somewhere other than the reset
 

DuncB

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I have taken a turboboiler apart when I broke it ( trying to deep fry a chicken in it ) that has a trip switch that can be reset but also a burnout fuse as well. But on that system the power comes in and passes thru the temperature fuse trip first before going to burnout fuse and onto the rest of the system. You still have power though so it could be wired differently.
No boil wizen bock might be on the cards if you can't resolve it.

It was a simple job to replace the trip and burnout fuse ( but not mid brew ).
 

mbg

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So Anvil support got back to me and provided some instructions on how to disassemble the unit to clean the screen. Which...I'm not so sure I really want to do. Or I'll wait until it gets to the point where I can't read it anymore, it is pretty involved.

But what I found interesting was this statement.

"It looks like you have sealed it up from the outside, but there is still ways for vapors to get inside."

Which has me thinking that I probably created this problem by sealing the damn thing up...because as I mentioned I've never had a boil over, nor have I ever dumped contents out of the Foundry on the electronics side. Very odd..

When cleaning my kettle I had a single drip of water hit the corner of the screen and immediately got sucked up between the LCD and plastic screen protector. Waited a day and it was still wet so I carefully pealed the plastic screen protector off, dried it out, and re-applied the protector. I too then sealed around the display and around the black plastic (I asked Anvil if this was OK before I did it).

One strange thing was on the Foundry FB page someone took their display apart for another reason and it had an additional piece of plastic with an o-ring seal around it. I don't recall mine having that.
 

kevin58

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@mbg Why leave the plastic on the screen? It doesn't protect anything other than the surface of the screen from scratching during manufacturing, handling and shipping and leaving it on during use only invites hazing and condensation.
 

MicahMan

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Update. Yes, I did a step mash manually, it took a long time. When I set the temp to Boil and the power to 100, it would not heat up. I tried letting it cool down for about 30 min and still had the same problem. During the mash I had the controller set at 1%-3% and the temperature steps were happening very fast, which had me suspicious. So, I set the power to 4% and it started heating up and boiled as if it was at 100%. If I turned the power up, it would start to cool down. Something is wrong with the controller. I ended up with a successful brew day but it was loooong day and frustrating. This is the 4th brew day with the Anvil. I’m going to test it with water this week to see what it does.
 

mbg

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@mbg Why leave the plastic on the screen? It doesn't protect anything other than the surface of the screen from scratching during manufacturing, handling and shipping and leaving it on during use only invites hazing and condensation.
This is not the protective peel off thin plastic it’s the thicker self adhesive plastic with silver boarder.
 

DuncB

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@MicahMan

Doesn't sound as if your anvil is working right, 1-3 % power wouldn't raise the temperature of my old 2500 w 240v robobrew at all it wouldn't compensate for the losses thru the side of the kettle and lid.
I can boil mine at 30% with the lid and jacket on when it's at temperature.

I think you need to contact anvil.
 

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Does anyone know the current wait time for a 10.5 Anvil Foundry to ship? I ordered once from the Anvil website back on 2/13/2022 and still have not received a shipped email.
 

Knightshade

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When cleaning my kettle I had a single drip of water hit the corner of the screen and immediately got sucked up between the LCD and plastic screen protector. Waited a day and it was still wet so I carefully pealed the plastic screen protector off, dried it out, and re-applied the protector. I too then sealed around the display and around the black plastic (I asked Anvil if this was OK before I did it).

One strange thing was on the Foundry FB page someone took their display apart for another reason and it had an additional piece of plastic with an o-ring seal around it. I don't recall mine having that.


Awww..yeah!!! I saw this message about 10 minutes ago and immediately went out in the garage. Hell of a lot simpler than taking the entire damn thing apart..and even had I done so, I would have had the same damn problem as the problem existed on the surface of the display, and this thin film. Woot!!

tempImageFR3n50.jpg
 

Brewdog80

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Yeah, 3% shouldn't heat anything. Id be surprised if it even sent power to the heater coil at less than 10%
Just brewed today, and I drop to 75% to keep boil going after reaching 212. Temp in garage was 50to 55today
 

bwible

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Just wanted to provide an update. It just shipped today (3/3/2022).
Cool. I gather they have had a lot of demand and like everybody else they are experiening supply chain shortages. Glad they were able to get it out to you. These days a month is not all that unreasonable for some things.
 

Hans O. Lowe

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I bought the 18 gallon version that was said to be in stock and it still took almost 2 weeks to arrive. They must be busy like everyone else right now.
 

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I figured this was the place to ask. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on an anvil foundry because the all in one I'm using now scorchs the crap out of my wort on most brews(its a mash and boil) has anyone had this with the foundry? Really don't want to drop cash on a new system and wind up with the same problem.

Cheers
 

kevin58

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I have never had a scorching issue with the Foundry. If you order one however just don't expect to have it any time soon. Delivery delays are turning what was a matter of weeks into several months.
 

DuncB

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I figured this was the place to ask. I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on an anvil foundry because the all in one I'm using now scorchs the crap out of my wort on most brews(its a mash and boil) has anyone had this with the foundry? Really don't want to drop cash on a new system and wind up with the same problem.

Cheers
You could look into a different controller on the mash and boil that allows you to reduce the power to the element.
 
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