another thread on co2 loss ...

HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

Just_another_drunkard_666

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
Location
Montreal
So this has been my first time kegging, first keg. I set it and forget it two weeks ago at 12 psi, prior to doing so soap tested the entire system for leaks (found none) and everything has been fine, it held and carbonated the beer. At one point I checked the gauges and it had raised to 15, I disconnected the gas line, relieved some pressure from the keg, reset to 12 and no issues. Friday I hooked up the beverage line for the first time and had my first few pints. Perfect, no issues. Saturday afternoon I realize there's not nearly enough head, it's coming out slower and upon checking my gauges, realize pressure reads 9 psi and dropping. I disconnected the gas from the keg and attempted to go over the system to leak test it but at this point the tank is empty.


there was no leakage of beer, so I'm assuming gas couldn't have been leaking through the liquid out disconnect or beer line. Odds are I just missed something in my leak test? Why would it not have all leaked out prior to attaching the beverage line? It's a brand new keg and I checked it as well when I set up the system and found no leaks. That being said, I'm assuming that the keg, even though I disconnected from the gas, has most likely equalized at a lower psi and is now flat. I'm not in danger of the beer being damaged? Sounds silly, and forgive my paranoia, but I have no way to get more co2 and begin the process of trying to find the leak for 2 days and in that time it would suck if I lose the beer as well.
 

VikeMan

It ain't all burritos and strippers, my friend.
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
3,488
Reaction score
2,477
there was no leakage of beer, so I'm assuming gas couldn't have been leaking through the liquid out disconnect or beer line.
Not the liquid out disconnect or beer line, but the dip tube o-ring on the liquid side could make a good seal with the inside of the ball lock post, but a bad seal between the dip tube flange and the keg. So it's possible to leak CO2 on the liquid side without leaking beer.

Odds are I just missed something in my leak test?
Definitely, or your CO2 tank wouldn't be empty. Did you test the liquid side?

Why would it not have all leaked out prior to attaching the beverage line?
Slow leak.

That being said, I'm assuming that the keg, even though I disconnected from the gas, has most likely equalized at a lower psi and is now flat. I'm not in danger of the beer being damaged?
Flat beer isn't really a problem, but if the leak is on the keg, eventually oxidation will become an issue.
 

bracconiere

Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
13,628
Reaction score
6,241
Location
S.AZ
and forgive my paranoia

you're forgiven, i'm so paranoid i track my co2 usage to the nearest tenth of an ounce!

when you do get a new tank, the usual trouble shooting i'd go through is, pressurize the system, then shut off the keg from the reg, shut off the tank. wait over night. if the gauges drop AT ALL, it's in the reg. maybe a bad tank washer or something....if you turn the tasnk back on then the when you switch the keg back on if the low pressure drop at all, and it makes noise you know the leak is somewhere on the keg side.

but i think you get the jist of the proccess....i never had luck with the soapy bubble way....small leak won't bubble but will drain a cyclinder in a few weeks, month....
 
OP
Just_another_drunkard_666

Just_another_drunkard_666

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
Location
Montreal
Definitely, or your CO2 tank wouldn't be empty. Did you test the liquid side?
As far as I know how, prior to filling my first keg I pressurized the system and ran star san through it. Checked the posts with a spray bottle, checked the lid as well and didn't notice any bubbling or issues on either side.
 
OP
Just_another_drunkard_666

Just_another_drunkard_666

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
Location
Montreal
Flat beer isn't really a problem, but if the leak is on the keg, eventually oxidation will become an issue.
I guess that's part of my concern, not planning on opening things up and checking seals unless that becomes a last resort. Was just more concerned about the lag time between now and when I'm able to reup on gas. I know it's only 2 days, but want to be careful.
 
OP
Just_another_drunkard_666

Just_another_drunkard_666

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
Location
Montreal
when you do get a new tank, the usual trouble shooting i'd go through is, pressurize the system, then shut off the keg from the reg, shut off the tank. wait over night. if the gauges drop AT ALL, it's in the reg. maybe a bad tank washer or something....if you turn the tasnk back on then the when you switch the keg back on if the low pressure drop at all, and it makes noise you know the leak is somewhere on the keg side.

but i think you get the jist of the proccess....i never had luck with the soapy bubble way....small leak won't bubble but will drain a cyclinder in a few weeks, month....
I'll definitely give that a go. I have a 2 way gas manifold so I'm assuming I could slowly pressurize it over the course of a couple days bit by bit (first reg, then manifold, then keg) to isolate where any potential leaks are ...
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
17,314
Reaction score
7,425
Location
Pasadena, MD
Well I know there's supposed to be a washer here, didn't notice that.
Sad story, so sorry!

It's curious why a leak there didn't show up with your soap inspection.
That's high pressure gas there, you should even be able to hear it leaking.

A plastic washer in that spot should last years, many exchanges/fills and de/recouplings.
Fiber washers, however, maybe only a few times. Best to use a brand new one each time you reconnect the regulator, or at least when changing for a full tank.
Many (some?) fill places include one of those fiber washers (for free) at check out. ;)
 

bracconiere

Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
13,628
Reaction score
6,241
Location
S.AZ
To use a (permanent) o-ring there, that groove needs to be much deeper to hold it in place.

that's the problem i had with the tap-rite o-rings...the groove on the tank was TOO big....just messed it up....might work with an alluminum tank. but it's the luck of the draw with a swap for me....i just use a washer no matter what now...so far, so good.
 

balrog

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Nov 26, 2013
Messages
3,980
Reaction score
3,853
Fair enough. I've always used the nylon washers myself. One tank swap had an O-ring and in that I did not use the nylon washer.

I am, however, somewhat aberrant, as I do not keep gas hooked up all the time.
 

Tom R

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2019
Messages
351
Reaction score
280
Location
S. Puget Sound
I don't keep the cylinder valve open. I just open it every few days when I think it needs it.
This works for me because my valve is outside the kegerator and easy to reach.

No more empty CO2 surprises.
IMG_0096.JPG
 
OP
Just_another_drunkard_666

Just_another_drunkard_666

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
Location
Montreal
Sad story, so sorry!

It's curious why a leak there didn't show up with your soap inspection.
That's high pressure gas there, you should even be able to hear it leaking.
I thought the same. Planning to replace with nylon washer as the groove there really isn't deep at all and still going to run over the system in case there were any other silly mistakes made
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
17,314
Reaction score
7,425
Location
Pasadena, MD
I thought the same. Planning to replace with nylon washer as the groove there really isn't deep at all and still going to run over the system in case there were any other silly mistakes made
More so as the full surface covering nylon washers have protrusions that fit right into those indentations in the brass surfaces...
IOW, it looks like they're made for nylon washers. ;)
 

day_trippr

Moderna Or Bust! :D
Joined
May 31, 2011
Messages
36,275
Reaction score
18,751
Location
Stow, MA
Meh. I have three Chudnow primaries (one single body and one dual) a Taprite (dual) and a Micromatic (my beer gas reg). The Taprite and Micromatic use captive o-rings on their coupler stems - but tbh I prefer the Chudnows that require me to provide a crushable flat fiber or nylon washer instead. I have had a Taprite captive O-ring develop surface tears which is no bueno on a gas system. Never have that problem with the Chudnows...

Cheers!
 

DarrellQ

Supporting Member
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jul 25, 2020
Messages
123
Reaction score
49
I had the stupid o-ring issue also on a tank I used. I didn't notice it and used a nylon washer also. I went downstairs to where my kegerator is located and it sounded like a spaceship ready to launch. Most Co2 was gone. Why would a company mess-up a perfectly simple and effective nylon washer design with a stupid rubber o-ring that is nearly impossible to replace?
 

bwible

I drink, and I know things
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
650
Reaction score
658
Location
Oxford
I’ve had this kind of problem SO many times that I don’t even leave my CO2 turned on all the time anymore. I shoot kegs multiple times and turn the tank valve and regulator valves off after every time. Once the beer is carbonated I just shoot gas occasionally as I draw off beer.

Sounds like a PITA but it only take a few seconds to turn a valve at the top of the tank and flip a lever on the regulator,
 
OP
Just_another_drunkard_666

Just_another_drunkard_666

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 31, 2018
Messages
49
Reaction score
13
Location
Montreal
I’ve had this kind of problem SO many times that I don’t even leave my CO2 turned on all the time anymore. I shoot kegs multiple times and turn the tank valve and regulator valves off after every time. Once the beer is carbonated I just shoot gas occasionally as I draw off beer.

Sounds like a PITA but it only take a few seconds to turn a valve at the top of the tank and flip a lever on the regulator,
I may start doing just that once I correct my problem. I'll see how it goes. At least my issue was glaringly obvious
 

bracconiere

Jolly Alcoholic
HBT Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Messages
13,628
Reaction score
6,241
Location
S.AZ
I’ve had this kind of problem SO many times that I don’t even leave my CO2 turned on all the time anymore. I shoot kegs multiple times and turn the tank valve and regulator valves off after every time. Once the beer is carbonated I just shoot gas occasionally as I draw off beer.

Sounds like a PITA but it only take a few seconds to turn a valve at the top of the tank and flip a lever on the regulator,
I may start doing just that once I correct my problem. I'll see how it goes. At least my issue was glaringly obvious

have i mentioned how much i love keeping my tank on a scale? ;) :mug:
 
Top