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FlyGuy

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...who are clueless about handling bottle conditioned beer? I know I should chill, but it is really getting under my skin that I have to go to 'high end' stores and pay premium prices for decent commercial beer up here.

Sometimes, I really get a craving for a special Belgian or craft-brew that I just want to get home and drink right away. I don't like yeast and sediment in some beers, either. So when I buy bottle conditioned beer at the store, I either (literally) hold up the bottle or six pack really high so they can scan it from the bottom, or I ask the clerk to please not tip the bottles over. Usually they just give me a dirty look like I am some unreasonably demanding customer who is completely inconveniencing them, or they just go ahead and tip it anyways so it can be scanned easily.

Does anyone get peeved by this? Shouldn't clerks at a 'premium' store know, or at least be interested to learn about bottle conditioned beer. Or have I just become too much of a beer snob now? :(
 

Spyk'd

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The easy answer is, yes...


The clerks SHOULD know how to handle the products they are "ringing up".

AND, you ARE a beer snob...but that's a good thing!


:mug:


The long answer has to do with the capitolistic society we live in and how insignificant we all are, and the meaning of life...



:drunk:
 
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FlyGuy

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Even if they don't know, I would hope they would have a small inkling to care. Maybe even to learn something.

I am always happy to explain my request, but nobody cares. Sad for the beer snobs.
 

BarleyWater

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What's even more annoying is going into a tap room and having the waitress tell you they don't have a beer called called "seasonal" when I ask what the seasonal is that they are advertising, or asking you what you mean when you ask what they have that isn't a light lager. I've gotten odd looks for asking if the Guiness is refrigerated or not. The rest of the non-beer loving world just doesn't understand.
 

Spyk'd

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FlyGuy said:
Even if they don't know, I would hope they would have a small inkling to care. Maybe even to learn something.

I am always happy to explain my request, but nobody cares. Sad for the beer snobs.

That's just good customer service there...but apparently they're the only 'good' beer store in town. And they apparently know it!


So do you...

;)
 

wild

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I've had the same issues at our AJ's Fine Foods which is more of a high-end store. I've asked them not to disturb the sediment when they ring it up and they say "why, it's just beer". :eek:
 

brewt00l

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You would think that the management of the shop would want their employees to know how to properly handle the product....no matter what the product in question is.

Though I find that bar/wait staff that don't know how to serve a beer properly in a beer-centric establishment even worse. Pouring a 6 oz of a quad into a shaker pint because "it's the only clean glassware currently behind the bar" doesn't quite cut it.
 

Rick_R

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Even if they don't know, I would hope they would have a small inkling to care.
That's the problem these days. Generally speaking, they have no inkling to care and no incentive either. If I guessed, I'd say when FlyGuy asked him/her not tilt the beer and the clerk went ahead and did so, he bought it anyway. Most likely, I'd do the same. Occasionally I make a point of walking out on something similar but (as my Motorhead sig line below says) I could have saved my breath; no skin off their nose. They have no incentive to care and for the most part none of us holds them to a higher standard.

My latest gripe is the clerk who has an earbug in their ear and can barely be bothered with me because of the conversation they have going on the cell. Happens more and more.

'Course, maybe I'm just becoming a grumpy old man.

Rick
 

EvilTOJ

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DesertBrew that was not nice! I was on the phone when I scrolled down and saw that and busted out laughing! India was not amused. Mainframe job abends are serious business.
 
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FlyGuy

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rickylr said:
That's the problem these days. Generally speaking, they have no inkling to care and no incentive either. If I guessed, I'd say when FlyGuy asked him/her not tilt the beer and the clerk went ahead and did so, he bought it anyway.
Actually, when I drafted the post I went on to say what ensued after. But it got too long and too rant'ish, so I deleted it before posting.

I actually asked the clerk very politely if I could just exchange the 6-pack for another one on the shelf. She got really annoyed with me at that point, and told me that wouldn't be necessary. I tried to explain my reasoning, and that just used up her patience. Mine too. I asked her to remove it from my bill, and I only bought my other item. I know the manager at that store, so I am going to (politely) relate what happened the next time I see him. He is a beer guy, so he might actually care.
 

Rick_R

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I asked her to remove it from my bill, and I only bought my other item. I know the manager at that store, so I am going to (politely) relate what happened the next time I see him. He is a beer guy, so he might actually care.
Good to know, and hopefully you'll do some good. As mentioned, I usually just ignore it these days though upon occasion (and often to the chagrin of my wife/kids) I "Make a Point." The kids just say "Daddy went off again" and the family has a list of such "incidents." Note that in all those occasions I never lost my temper or was belligerent, just quietly insistent that they correct whatever had set me off.

I honestly believe that if more of us made issues of such things, we might see improvement, but I rarely think it's worth it anymore. Depending on your viewpoint, I've ether mellowed or given up.

Rick
 

wild

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EvilTOJ said:
India was not amused. Mainframe job abends are serious business.
I thought I was the only one dealing with India about mainframe abends. :off:
 

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SWMBO just got me a shirt from beeradvocate that says "Beer Geek" I'm going to wear it EVERY time we go out now. This way, hopefully, people will understand more when I ask whats on tap that I don't want a bud light.

We went out to diner last night and I asked what was on tap, they used to have a hefe but I didn't know if they still had it. She went off on the usual BMC oh and we have Shiner. I'm going to make it a point now to waltz by the bar before sitting down so I can just ask for what I want, hopefully not not go through it again and again.
 

Rick_R

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I asked what was on tap
At a restaurant, where I figured the choice would be four or five beers:

Me - "What beers do you have?"

Server - "Oh, we'll have anything you want."

Me - "Young's Double Chocolate Stout."

Server - "Uh . . . well, we have" and she named seven or eight. But in her defense, I guess she's right 95% of the time.

Rick
 

sflcowboy78

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my favorite place to go does have pretty much any beer you want. if anyone is ever in fort worth you need to stop by the flying saucer. they have a tap wall with about 80 to 90 diff beers on tap plus about another 150 in bottles. and most of their services unless they are new are very knowledgeable about the beers.
 
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rickylr - I did the same thing a week ago at a eatery with bar (I was at the bar). I was piss tired from work and a bit grumpy with some co-workers.

Me: What kind of beer you have.
She: Pretty much anything you'd like (I wanted her, she was hot but I digress)
Me: Moose Drool?
She: <odd look>
Me: HobGoblin?
She: <odd look>
Me: <contemplate throwing out the arrogant bastard> Bass?
She: No, <at least she heard of that one>.
She: See the bottles up on the shelf?
Me: Ah yes (sees BMC, various MX and a couple italians (italian joint).
Me: I'll take a Pacifico please :rolleyes:

Beer lists would be awesome everywhere!
 

kram

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I am semi fortunate in this respect. My local beer store (which has a generous selection) also happens to have a well versed, intelligent beer 'steward' who knows every new arrival, what everything is, and knows how to handle a bottle conditioned beer.

Of course, the employee in question is also my progeny, so he better know his beer (and give me the best possible service).

On the other hand, when I go out to a restaraunt I have a very different experience. I always ask what is on draft and only sometimes do they know (and I always ghave to hear the BMC items before any good beer). When possible I will swing past the bar and check the taps for the selection, its usually easier.
 

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I deal with the "tilting" problem all the time too. I went to one of my local stores (mainly a grocery store, but with an awesome beer and wine dept.) and bought a North Coast LeMerle Saison and an Avery, The Kaiser Imperial Oktoberfest. Right after the cashier had rung up the Saison and before i had time to say anything she turned and laid it down on it's side in the bag! I very calmly asked her if she would mind standing the beers up in the bag, that was met with an "are you F'ing serious" sideways glance. I was a bit put off by it, so the next time i am in there and see the guy that does the beer ordering for the store (I have talked to him numerous times) I am going to sugest that he hold a training class for all of the other employees of the store.

Oh and the restaraunt thing...... yeah i don't even ask any more, unless i know that the servers are going to be well versed in the beer they are serving, which there are a few places in town that they actually train the servers on beer styles and what they are serving. I will just go to the bar on my way to the table and look for myself or ask the bartender.
 
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FlyGuy

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When I go into a pub that might have something good on tap, I just ask if they have anything 'unusual'. Typically, that equates to the good stuff (or Strongbow).
 

Rick_R

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you need to stop by the flying saucer
There's one in Memphis, which is about 1.5 hours away for me, and we finally made it there recently. Being used to BMC plus Sam Adams, though, I was frozen by indecision. Went with a flight and didn't realize I could have created my own flight until after I ordered. Darn.

I'll be back there.

Rick
 

cubbies

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I go to Memphis every year and sometimes twice a year I love that Flying Saucer. Not only is the beer selection top notch (prices aren't bad either), but they have those garage door style walls that they open up on nice days. I have seriously had some of my best days sitting there in the sunshine drinking a nice IPA and looking out onto the city...*daydreams*
 

c.n.budz

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The thing that ticks me off is when a liquor store employee will happily discuss and offer countless suggestions on wine, but when I ask "have you gotten any new IPAs lately" they give me this look of disdain as though I'm picking my nose. Hey, wine geeks, get off your high horses!
 

BarleyWater

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Ya, the Flying Saucer in Ft. Worth is in an old firestation from the early 1900's, aside from being the best place to go drink in DFW, it's a really cool old building with a cool balcony and patio. But even there I have had problems, but I do think it was because we got a new waitress that didn't realize the amount of beer geeks (or beer knurd as the FS calls us) that go to the establishment.

And when will people realize that they don't have whatever I want, of course I live in a place where people frequently have the argument over which is the best beer, miller or bud. It's usually hopeless at restaurants here, and you just have to hope they have bottled sam adams or shiner on tap, because it ain't getting much better than that.
 

Revvy

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Man, I'm so lucky...I have three liquor stores no more than a mile apart, each owned and run by beer geeks...Or at least people who try to have a good selection beyond bmc. In fact one of the owners of one of them asked, knowing that I brew ('cause I usually beg for boxes) asked me how to get into homebrewing.
 
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OT:

If you ever get to Belgium, you will never have this problem.
When a beer is poured, the neck of the bottle nver touches the glass.

If a beer is stored on its side, it is carefully placed in a basket on its side and poured on its side.
 

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I don't have any stores where the clerk is very knowledgeable, so I make it a point to ask them not to tip the bottles if I'm buying a bottle conditioned beer. Just ignore their strange look and be happy.
 

blacklab

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wild said:
I've had the same issues at our AJ's Fine Foods which is more of a high-end store. I've asked them not to disturb the sediment when they ring it up and they say "why, it's just beer". :eek:
:off: Hey Wild;

Care to share the Mirror pond clone recipe in your sig?

-bl
 

Bernie Brewer

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EvilTOJ said:
DesertBrew that was not nice! I was on the phone when I scrolled down and saw that and busted out laughing! India was not amused. Mainframe job abends are serious business.


May not have been nice, but it was damn funny! I almost blew homebrew out my nose when I saw that!!!
 

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brewt00l said:
Though I find that bar/wait staff that don't know how to serve a beer properly in a beer-centric establishment even worse. Pouring a 6 oz of a quad into a shaker pint because "it's the only clean glassware currently behind the bar" doesn't quite cut it.
I have to ask. Does the *glass* really impact the *beer*? I mean, when you drink your homebrew, or serve it to friends, do you always make sure the "correct" glass is used? I really fail to understand how the glass matters. I apply this to wine and mixed drinks, too. It strikes me as a way for "knowledgeable" people who know the "rules" to feel superior to those who do not, rather than actually having anything to do with the drink being served.
 

Moonshae

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Rick_R said:
Me - "What beers do you have?"

Server - "Oh, we'll have anything you want."
I've never heard this. I usually ask what's on tap, and they always rattle off the list.
 

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There is a kid that works at my local that must be stoned 24/7. He has puffy eyelids and bloodshot eyes, and always a hint of a silly grin on his face. When he starts tossing my $6 single imports into 1 bag with no dividers it sends me into orbit!
 

andypantz13

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Moonshae said:
I have to ask. Does the *glass* really impact the *beer*? I mean, when you drink your homebrew, or serve it to friends, do you always make sure the "correct" glass is used? I really fail to understand how the glass matters. I apply this to wine and mixed drinks, too. It strikes me as a way for "knowledgeable" people who know the "rules" to feel superior to those who do not, rather than actually having anything to do with the drink being served.
I think it matters to an extent. Certain glasses are curved certain ways to concentrate aroma, and in some cases even to attempt to have the drink hit the proper part of your tongue first. There are other things to consider too, such as when you serve champagne, the point of the flute is to keep the carbonation in the drink longer, if you serve it in a glass with more surface area open to the area, its going to lose its carbonation quicker, go flat and no longer taste properly.

Now this isn't to say that for certain things one glass won't be as good as the next. Especially with every Belgian beer on the planet having its own specific glass, I doubt they are going to make that much of a difference. However as brewt00l said, getting 6oz of a quad in a pint glass would be a little upsetting, especially if you are at a place that is known for their beer.
 

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Honestly I love beer, and always have, and I like people who enjoy beer, but if I was working at a liquor store for minimum wage, I could care less about not tipping bottles. I would just want to get my day over with and get out of there. Working minimum wage sucks, and you not buying the beer doesn't affect the cashiere one bit, talking to the manager, could get them in trouble which to them is pretty much meaningless or get them fired, which would suck, but there are plenty of other minimum wage jobs out there. High rates of employee turnover in the retail setting are quite common, and in short retail doesn't pay people enough to care.

When I go out to buy wine, I go to a mom and pop shop that has higher prices than a normal liquor store. I usually either talk to the owner or the assistant manager about wine these guys are paid to care about the customers and know about their wine. The owner is affected by you not buying wine and the assistant manager is paid enough to care about the customers and about the wine. The rest of the staff is a little better and is paid to "try and care", but this is because many of them have been working there for years, and are paid better than minimum wage. Granted a few of them are still cluelsess, but at least they know where stuff is on the shelves.

Is it worth it for me to take the extra 10 minutes of commuting to get there and the extra 2 to 5 bucks a bottle they charge, sometimes it is because I like the service and I know I will get a good bottle I have never tried before. But the reason this happens is because the place pays their employees more, enough that they stick around for more than a few months and subsequently charge more for the goods.

In short good service and higher prices go hand in hand. Have you ever gotten good service at home depot? Now how about your neighborhood hardware store how was the service there, is it worth paying an extra $2 for a paint roller to go to your neighborhood store? Is it worth waiting a week while they order something for you that they don't stock because they aren't a giant warehouse?
 

GilaMinumBeer

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Within 5 miles of my home I have no less than 7 stores that have an excellent selection of what is available here, which isn't thta broad a selection.

6 of them have no clue as to how beer should be kept. 4 of them keep their beer up front right against the glass. And it seems that the clear and green bottles are closer to the store front than the browns. Ironical.

I have caught several clerks, literally, BS'ing customers about a beer brand. Meaning they had no clue what it was on their shelf but wouldn't dare be honest and admitt to it.

I would much rather hear from a clerk that "we have soo many products here I haven't tried this one yet" than get BS'ed about something.
 

GilaMinumBeer

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andypantz13 said:
I think it matters to an extent. Certain glasses are curved certain ways to concentrate aroma, and in some cases even to attempt to have the drink hit the proper part of your tongue first. There are other things to consider too, such as when you serve champagne, the point of the flute is to keep the carbonation in the drink longer, if you serve it in a glass with more surface area open to the area, its going to lose its carbonation quicker, go flat and no longer taste properly.

Now this isn't to say that for certain things one glass won't be as good as the next. Especially with every Belgian beer on the planet having its own specific glass, I doubt they are going to make that much of a difference. However as brewt00l said, getting 6oz of a quad in a pint glass would be a little upsetting, especially if you are at a place that is known for their beer.
True, some glasses are better in delivery of aroma. And some glasses intensify the color by bending light this way and that but, no matter what shape the glass is the flavor will stay the same. Aroma does impact the perception of the flavor.

Mostly, IMO, the glass simply heightens the experience more than alters the beer. It can be fun to choose the glass based on the beer profile. But this should never equate to snobbery cause person X knows what glass goes with what beer.

Heck, in the old days. Beer was served up in pewter, wood, or clay and they drank it, and it was good.
 

rdwj

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GilaMinumBeer said:
True, some glasses are better in delivery of aroma. And some glasses intensify the color by bending light this way and that but, no matter what shape the glass is the flavor will stay the same. Aroma does impact the perception of the flavor.

Mostly, IMO, the glass simply heightens the experience more than alters the beer. It can be fun to choose the glass based on the beer profile. But this should never equate to snobbery cause person X knows what glass goes with what beer.

Heck, in the old days. Beer was served up in pewter, wood, or clay and they drank it, and it was good.
80%+ of what you think is taste is actually smell. That being said, as long as you're drinking from an open-mouthed glass, the smell isn't going to be drastically different, you just may get more of it, but that's about it.

I think glassware is cool, but in all honestly, I don't think it makes much difference in taste. As long as it's capacity is in line with the serving size, the rest is mostly for looks.
 
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FlyGuy

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Donasay said:
When I go out to buy wine, I go to a mom and pop shop that has higher prices than a normal liquor store. I usually either talk to the owner or the assistant manager about wine these guys are paid to care about the customers and know about their wine. The owner is affected by you not buying wine and the assistant manager is paid enough to care about the customers and about the wine. The rest of the staff is a little better and is paid to "try and care", but this is because many of them have been working there for years, and are paid better than minimum wage. Granted a few of them are still cluelsess, but at least they know where stuff is on the shelves.
But that's my point -- if I am going to go out of my way to shop at the 'high end' liquor stores, I would hope (not necessarily expect) that I would get a little better customer service than at the big box liquor change staffed by starving students.
 
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