Am I crazy?

[Radecky]

1st I am a LP brewer but I have always been intrigued by E-brewing. While I was retrofitting my bathroom fan for one out of a old microwave got me thinking what to do with a perfectly good transformer and magnetron, after all my wife heats up water for tea every morning. I then quickly scraped that idea due to that little thing called death. I finished wiring up the fan and it hit me. Why not build something in line with the induction cook tops? The idea of heating water in a fraction of the time really appealed to me. I quickly told my wife about my brainstorm and she asked "how many beers have you had?" not to be discouraged I called my uncle (2 PHDs in high energy physics and works for Lockeed Martin) and he said that I would need allot of power to make it work but he'll talk to a couple of his coworkers and get back to me.

So I pose the question do you think it will work?

I also am aware that induction cookers don't like non magnetic cookware but I think it can be overcame.

B-

 

[Homercidal]

Why wouldn't it work?

 

[mccumath]

I like the idea! Subscribed!

Cant wait to see what the results are.

 

[Walker]

I also am aware that induction cookers don't like non magnetic cookware but I think it can be overcame.

That little fact cannot be overcome. You MUST have a magnetic material in order for induction to work. It's not a matter of "preference" but of "necessity".

The whole vessel does not need to be magnetic, but you would at least need a layer of something ferrous embedded the bottom of the cooking pot.

 

[JKoravos]

That little fact cannot be overcome. You MUST have a magnetic material in order for induction to work. It's not a matter of "preference" but of "necessity".

The whole vessel does not need to be magnetic, but you would at least need a layer of something ferrous embedded the bottom of the cooking pot.

Conversely, you could just sit your non-ferrous pot on top of a steel plate.

 

[Walker]

Conversely, you could just sit your non-ferrous pot on top of a steel plate.

... which sort of defeats the purpose and makes it just a traditional conduction heater.

 

[Bsquared]

The trick is getting the proper cookware, and a powerful enough induction cook top. Both of this can be expensive.

For the longest time I had the idea of making a Mash tun that was heated with an induction cook top. I bought an induction hop plate that is 1800Watts, but just use it for making starters, now. It just was not feasible to do with it because It could not handle a stock pot bigger than 30QT.

This web site has some good info.
http://theinductionsite.com/induction-cookware.shtml

Stainless induction cookware is made from a "a 3-layer sandwich or a 6-layer sandwich, in that the "middle layer" is in fact three separate layers of heat-distributing aluminum; the inner layer is full 18/10 stainless steel, while the outermost layer is 18/0 magnetizeable stainless steel." from the website above.

Good luck

 

[brewhacker]

Conversely, you could just sit your non-ferrous pot on top of a steel plate.

Here's a thought, what about a non-ferrous pot with a ferrous object (steel plate or iron rod) inside the pot. The heat would then be generated inside the pot rather than the surface.

 

[brewhacker]

It is hard however to beat the simplicity and efficiency of a simple setup with cheap water heaters. With induction heating as with standard water heaters you will still need a few kilowatts of power.

 

[weirdboy]

Of course it works. It's just really, really dangerous to use that kind of stuff without a healthy amount of shielding.

 

[Walker]

Of course it works. It's just really, really dangerous to use that kind of stuff without a healthy amount of shielding.

I don't follow this comment at all. What is dangerous about what he suggests?

 

[Walker]

Here's a thought, what about a non-ferrous pot with a ferrous object (steel plate or iron rod) inside the pot. The heat would then be generated inside the pot rather than the surface.

I'm waiting to see what weirdboy thinks is dangerous about this, but this is a pretty interesting idea. Many pieces of stainless cookwear do work with induction heaters (check it with a magnet), and cast iron definitely works.

The total thickness of material and distance from the EM field generator might cause problems, but if you have a kettle that is made of higher grade stainless and a magnet won't cling to it, I don't see why dropping a magnetic skillet with no handle down into the bottom of a pot would not work.

It should heat up.

 

[weirdboy]

I don't follow this comment at all. What is dangerous about what he suggests?

Maybe I misunderstood the intent of the OP, but I thought he was planning to use the magnetron to heat the pot with microwaves.

 

[P-J]

Maybe I misunderstood the intent of the OP, but I thought he was planning to use the magnetron to heat the pot with microwaves.

When I first read the thread, that is the impression that I got as well.
I see that after reading the thread again, it took a different direction.

 

[Walker]

Oh! LOL...yeah...

My eyes got about the size of baseballs when I started reading the thread and he was talking about the magnetron, but he's talking about induction heating and dropped the magnetron in the third sentence of the original post.

 

[P-J]

Walker,
Now that made me laugh so hard it brought tears to my eyes.
Thanks for that.

P-J

 

[passedpawn]

I like the idea too. There was a discussion about this a few months ago... I remember posting something in it. I'll search.

[edit] related posts, in a way... check out the pics of the disaster about 10 posts into the first link. Youch.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/how-big-pot-have-you-put-glass-range-206556/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/erlenmeyer-flask-induction-cooktop-223206/

 

[Clementine]

I think to problem is going to be that it will be far less efficient than normal induction cooking or submerged elements such as commonly used. Normal induction cooking is heating the cookware and not the element underneath it and in the cookware that is 100% steel or cast iron even the sides get heated (vice laminated core cookware where only the ferrous core is heated), anyway I digress in this the bottom of keggle is going to be heated by a piece of steel that is only contacting part of the keggle as it is not bonded as in laminated cookware and hence you will get very poor conduction. It would be like trying to heat a keggle or other large pot on a conventional hot plate and induction heating is designed to not get the heated surface that hot (as in glowing red 1100deg C) to begin with rather at cooking temps of less than 250deg C, ie your going to use a truck load of electricity

Clem

 

[audger]

Conversely, you could just sit your non-ferrous pot on top of a steel plate.

riddle me this, Rube Goldberg...

if you are going to have a steel hot plate that the pot sits on, why not just directly heat that plate @ 99% electrical efficiency and loose 30% between the electric hotplate and the pot, instead of using induction and loose 50% of your efficiency between the inductor and plate, then loose another 30% to the gap between the plate and the pot?

The idea of heating water in a fraction of the time really appealed to me.

induction only appears to heat your teapot "faster" because it uses more than twice the amount of electrical energy to do it. it takes the same amount of energy to heat a gallon of water a given amount, regardless of the method you use to heat it.

ie your going to use a truck load of electricity

QFT. induction wastes around 50% of the electricity you put into it, or more if the pot isnt well coupled to the induction coil (and you cant tell how well the coupling is just by looking at it, you could loose several % of your power if the pot is misaligned, etc. producing variable results). you will need to build a 6000watt induction circuit to heat water at the same rate as a 3kW water heater element, and all the added costs of a beefier circuit.

 

[Radecky]

Thanks for the responses, I am NOT planning on using the magnetrons, the risk outweighs the benefit.

The thought of heating the water in a shorter amount of time was my main driver with this brainstorm. I agree that the Keggle would be one of the biggest problems to work around. I have seen some induction heaters with the help of Google. I have seen a couple heaters where they have the work coil and in the center the item they are trying to heat (a bolt) Instead of having a coil that the keggle sits on and an iron plate or disk on the bottom would it be feasible to have the work coil around a portion of the outside of the Keggle then a couple rods that hang down into the water the induction heater would then heat the rods which then heat the water.

As I am typing this out I can easily see that what I am thinking is turning into a very complicated version of the tried and true water heater element e-keggle.

I didn't realize how much power it would need to run. I was trying to figuer that out over the weekend.