Aluminum vs (stainless) steel mill roller debate

[thunder]

MOD EDIT: Split from a thread suggesting the use of aluminum grain mill rollers

I would return those aluminum is the last thing you want in your
beer or your body.Grain is pretty tough if you use thoses rollers i would say
you will have aluminum in your first batch of grain.Spend the money and replace with steel or stainless rollers.

 

[thunder]

Might as well try it. Worst case you get some aluminum in your wort. Churches, very small rocks, and a duck may float but aluminum won't. It'll settle out.

http://www.rense.com/general37/alum.htm

 

[wildwest450]

http://www.rense.com/general37/alum.htm

What's your stance on aluminum brew pots?

 

[Brewmoor]

http://www.rense.com/general37/alum.htm

That page is from 5-25-3. A bit old don't you think? Plus if you look at the cited references at the bottom of the page, they are from the early 90's.

There have been several new studies and articles about how that is not true. Those results and articles are based on science from this decade. Even that last few years..........Oh and I have been using an aluminum pot to do my boils. I based my decision on relevance.

Edit: some other links in spirit of being balanced

http://alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/406

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/195/does-exposure-to-aluminum-cause-alzheimers-disease

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp

 

[thunder]

What's your stance on aluminum brew pots?

Same thing,cans as well.My dad is a doctor and has studied this for the
past 25 years.I use stainless pots and glass bottles.

 

[wildwest450]

Same thing,cans as well.My dad is a doctor and has studied this for the
past 25 years.I use stainless pots and glass bottles.

I too, use and love alumi, wait. What where we talking about. Where am i?

 

[Revvy]

WHOA......when did this become an aluminum vs SS debate?

Hey Wildwest, looks like "Miss Information" made a house call.

 

[Brewmoor]

WHOA......when did this become an aluminum vs SS debate?

Hey Wildwest, looks like "Miss Information" made a house call.

The minute any device, tool, or other product comes up on this board that is made of Aluminum. Some people live with doctors that swear that everything is bad for you.

 

[TheCarnie]

If aluminum was a hazard in any way, then the restaurant supply store, where liability is much higher, is gonna have a hard time selling their stock pots to commercial kitchens. You eat in any restaurant, the food is usually cooked in aluminum.

 

[lustreking]

That page is from 5-25-3. A bit old don't you think? Plus if you look at the cited references at the bottom of the page, they are from the early 90's.

Plus a look at the main page doesn't scream as much "credible resource" as it does "nutjob."

 

[mmb]

Same thing,cans as well.My dad is a doctor and has studied this for the
past 25 years.I use stainless pots and glass bottles.

You better not eat out in restaurants then. With exception to tomato based sauces, most cookware in production kitchens is aluminum.

 

[thunder]

That page is from 5-25-3. A bit old don't you think? Plus if you look at the cited references at the bottom of the page, they are from the early 90's.

There have been several new studies and articles about how that is not true. Those results and articles are based on science from this decade. Even that last few years..........Oh and I have been using an aluminum pot to do my boils. I based my decision on relevance.

Edit: some other links in spirit of being balanced

http://alzheimers.org.uk/factsheet/406

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/195/does-exposure-to-aluminum-cause-alzheimers-disease

http://www.alz.org/alzheimers_disease_myths_about_alzheimers.asp

Believe what you want its your body.Just remember once heavy metals go into the body they are there to stay!

 

[wildwest450]

WHOA......when did this become an aluminum vs SS debate?

Hey Wildwest, looks like "Miss Information" made a house call.

My bad, I can't help but call out foolish notions. Yes, she's been around a lot lately.

My apologies to the op, I hope you crush grains with those rollers and live to be 100.

 

[broadbill]

Plus a look at the main page doesn't scream as much "credible resource" as it does "nutjob."

No kidding! I saw the first sentence and saw the word "contrails" and immediately wrote it off as conspiracy theory wackaloonery...

 

[hal2814]

Believe what you want its your body.Just remember once heavy metals go into the body they are there to stay!

That's works out well with my plans. Instead of becoming an old man, I'm shooting for becoming a scary robot monster. (Why is there no Mecha-Godzilla emoticon?! Here, this one looks sorta like the Terminator.)

The problem with the aluminum Alzheimer's link is that the hyperbolic cases don't pan out. If there were a link, then people with occupational exposure should be a goldmine of evidence but they're not.

 

[thunder]

No kidding! I saw the first sentence and saw the word "contrails" and immediately wrote it off as conspiracy theory wackaloonery...

That is one article that google pulled up.Do your reading before you jump
to conclusions.


***The World is full of Ignorance***

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

My dad is a doctor and has studied this for the
past 25 years.I use stainless pots and glass bottles.

My dad was a gynecologist. I use socks and hand lotion.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. However, I am careful which doctors I trust regarding biology, I would take with a pinch of salt any opinion from a doctor regarding chemistry.

 

[shortyjacobs]

My dad was a gynecologist. I use socks and hand lotion.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. However, I am careful which doctors I trust regarding biology, I would take with a pinch of salt any opinion from a doctor regarding chemistry.

My doctor says too much salt in your diet is bad for you.



(as for grain being hard....if I chew on grain, then I chew on one of these rollers, which one will do more damage to my teeth?)

 

[weirdboy]

http://www.rense.com/general37/alum.htm

I'd better throw out all my aluminum pots and aluminum foil, then.

 

[Revvy]

I'd better throw out all my aluminum pots and aluminum foil, then.

Not all your aluminum foil......

Hey how come we can use tinfoil to protect our thoughts from government/alien/lizard people eavesdropping, and THAT doesn't lead to Alzheimer's.

 

[Cyan]

Same thing,cans as well.My dad is a doctor and has studied this for the
past 25 years.I use stainless pots and glass bottles.

Oh, a DOCTOR? Ok, sold. I mean, dude, he's a DOCTOR, so he HAS to be right!

 

[Cyan]

My dad was a gynecologist. I use socks and hand lotion.

LOL!!! *wiping tears* That's good sh*t, man!

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

THUNDER... I think you are 100% correct. I am admittedly biased due to my job, but I have read enough and done enough tests and studying that I do not use anything aluminum knowingly........ And for those who are saying restaurants use aluminum exclusively....that may be true, but ask a restaurant manager what would happen if they stored food overnight in an aluminum container.

 

[weirdboy]

THUNDER... I think you are 100% correct. I am admittedly biased due to my job, but I have read enough and done enough tests and studying that I do not use anything aluminum knowingly........ And for those who are saying restaurants use aluminum exclusively....that may be true, but ask a restaurant manager what would happen if they stored food overnight in an aluminum container.

Like, say, a can of coca-cola?

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

Like, say, a can of coca-cola?

Lacquer coating on the inside...also sealed to prevent oxidation...pop the top and take a drink....let it set 20 minutes and take another...taste the same? Also beer in a can or beer in a bottle....whichever you prefer it is obvious they taste DIFFERENT. It is the same BEER so what is the difference in the taste?

 

[broadbill]

THUNDER... I think you are 100% correct. I am admittedly biased due to my job, but I have read enough and done enough tests and studying that I do not use anything aluminum knowingly........ And for those who are saying restaurants use aluminum exclusively....that may be true, but ask a restaurant manager what would happen if they stored food overnight in an aluminum container.

All thunder could muster was a webpage that reeked of crack-pot theories. You say you've done some actual research/tests on this. Care to elaborate? Have you published the results of said research/tests? The reason I bring this up is because your results would be counter to what has been established to date: that using aluminum is perfectly safe. You'd probably become famous if you were the first person to demonstrate conclusively the hazards of aluminum. It would be big news. You DO have evidence, right?

 

[OHIOSTEVE]

All thunder could muster was a webpage that reeked of crack-pot theories. You say you've done some actual research/tests on this. Care to elaborate? Have you published the results of said research/tests? The reason I bring this up is because your results would be counter to what has been established to date: that using aluminum is perfectly safe. You'd probably become famous if you were the first person to demonstrate conclusively the hazards of aluminum. It would be big news. You DO have evidence, right?

No broadbill, I make a big habit of talking out my ass.

 

[mmb]

No broadbill, I make a big habit of talking out my ass.

Until you show the research you've done, that's all you are doing.

 

[jaginger]

Might as well try it. Worst case you get some aluminum in your wort. Churches, very small rocks, and a duck may float but aluminum won't. It'll settle out.

so does gravy.

 

[jspence1]

http://www.rense.com/general37/alum.htm

That study is 6 years old and they STILL don't know if its a cause or an effect. Paranoia it's in you to give. I worked in an aluminum die casting facility with all the aluminum in the air there you'd think it would have Alzheimer's rates through the roof but I saw none.

 

[Bobby_M]

I think I worked in an aluminum die casting facility and with all the aluminum in the air there you'd think it would have Alzheimer's rates through the roof but I don't remember.

Fixed that.

 

[thunder]

That study is 6 years old and they STILL don't know if its a cause or an effect. Paranoia it's in you to give. I worked in an aluminum die casting facility with all the aluminum in the air there you'd think it would have Alzheimer's rates through the roof but I saw none.

Like i said earlier that is just something i googled while we were here discussing the subject.As far as your exposure ??? only time will tell
the affects on your body.

 

[broadbill]

Like i said earlier that is just something i googled while we were here discussing the subject.As far as your exposure ??? only time will tell
the affects on your body.

Actually, you said that your father is a doctor and has studied the hazards of aluminum for 25 years. Yet instead of showing his data, you give a link to a random webpage???

So to summarize:

You aren't the expert, but your father is apparently. Care to give his name so I can look at his research (surely he published such important work, right?)

Your father has studied this so-called hazard for 25 years but you don't provide any of that evidence.

OhioSteve chimes in and says that he has his OWN research/test results on the subject, but he has yet to provide any we asked him to. Furthermore, he admits he might be biased and gets huffy when we call him out on his so-called research.

Did I miss anything?

 

[jaginger]

He turned me into a newt!

 

[broadbill]

He turned me into a newt!

....a newt!?!....



....I got better.....

 

[mkory]

WHOA......when did this become an aluminum vs SS debate?

Revvy, this IS an aluminum vs SS debate...

 

[Suicided1954]

I'm still on neither side of this fence as far as the health debate goes because I have no data to make a decision.

So I was listening to the brew strong podcast on Metals 9-29-08. They mentioned that yeast actually removed copper from wort. There was an actual test.

I wonder if the yeast would remove the aluminum?

I found a DIY test for $22.00 to test for aluminum in urine,tap water etc. I may have to take this further for science...

Thanks
Darryl

 

[Rushis]

Believe what you want its your body.Just remember once heavy metals go into the body they are there to stay!

For accuracies sake, aluminum's not a heavy metal. Aluminum homeostasis in the body is not completely understand, but there are mechanisms that can efflux aluminum.

http://www.rense.com/general37/alum.htm

How about a more reliable and up-to-date source
Alzheimer's disease, metal ions and metal homeostatic therapy
Trends in Pharmacological Sciences
Volume 30, Issue 7, July 2009, Pages 346-355

This debate has raged for 40 years in the scientific community. The above manuscript summarizes the current theories. As it stands, there is no direct link between aluminum and and onset of alzheimers. Aluminum, as its salts, can facilitate amyloid plaque formation which is characteristic of Alzeheimers, but this not a causal relationship. Changes in the way many metals ions (Zn2+, Cu2+, Fe2+/3+) are handle within the body contribute to the development of alzheimers, not the presence of aluminum.

Some confusion arises because aluminum (again aluminum salts) has been shown to be neurotoxic in animal models and can result in degenerative encephalopathy. But that is NOT Alzheimer related, nor is it an issue for aluminum cookware (or mill rollers).