Alternative to Muntons Ale Dry Yeast

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bluedragoon85

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I was wondering if there is any good dry yeast that can work as an Alternative to the Muntons Ale Dry Yeast. I have had bad luck using this yeast as my two previous brews have stopped fermenting (as appears) and yet the beer hasn't achieved it's FG (even after several weeks). First it happened to me with my Double chocolate stout that stopped when it was 1.027 and I had to rouse the yeast to kind of get it going again. Now, my ESB has been a week in primary and it has stopped releasing CO2 from the airlock and the yeast has almost completely settled to the bottom and yet the gravity is at 1.020 and has to reach 1.015. I roused the yeast and will leave it a week longer to see what happens. So, I was wondering if there is any other good dry yeast that will work pretty good with English Ales such as with the ones I previously mentioned.
 

Blender

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Sure there are fine alternatives. Lots of folks use Nottingham and Safale Brand dry yeasts with great results.These shoud be widely available at most HBS.
 

HOOTER

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I've used either Nottingham or Safale US-05 dry ale yeasts so far and have had good luck with both.

Edit: You beat me to it Blender
 

Chriso

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US-05 is oriented towards primarily American beers - APA, Amber Ale, Cream Ale, dry Stout, hell I've used it for Porter and had great results. Gives a very clean ale taste, not a lot of "riff raff" contributed by way of estery flavors.

S-04 is oriented towards British styles - it makes a killer Bitter/ESB, Porter, Stout, English Pale, Hobgoblin, etc etc etc. The S-04 is fruitier tasting. But it's really good.

There's a wheat strain out there that I've not tried yet. There's also one that's rumored to be Belgian-ish. But not. But sorta. I still don't get the deal on that one. But overall, I love Fermentis (Safale) yeasts, and at $1.50-$2.00/pack, I keep 2 of each on hand in case of a stuck ferment or dead yeast or etc.

Nottingham is great stuff too! :)
 
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bluedragoon85

bluedragoon85

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Thanks for the replies! Sounds like I should try both Nottingham and Safesale S-04 and see for myself ;)

Has anyone else had any bad experience using Muntons Dry Ale Yeast? The only reason I have used it is because it was recomended for both does batches by AHS (I bough malt extract kits)
 

Chriso

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Never even used the Muntons. I started with AG and didn't buy kits, I just started stockpiling random specialty grain. Now I have 60 lbs of random specialty grain sitting in my office. Oops. :)

I have a spare pack of Muntons that I plan to use someday.............. for making homemade pretzels.
 

7Enigma

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Damnit! I just ordered the DCS from AHS with...you guessed it, Munton's yeast. I'm now regretting the decision based on a couple posts I've read on here about it not getting the job done.
 

Nurmey

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bluedragoon85 said:
Thanks for the replies! Sounds like I should try both Nottingham and Safesale S-04 and see for myself ;)

Has anyone else had any bad experience using Muntons Dry Ale Yeast? The only reason I have used it is because it was recomended for both does batches by AHS (I bough malt extract kits)
I used it for 15 or so batches before I figured out I would never get my expected FG using it. I'm a slow learner apparently.
 

videoman

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I used the Munton's a number of times.... FG was a little off most of the time, notorious slow starter, but it did a fair job....

But, the Nottingham and Safale products recommended above.... stellar yeast. Very active, FG quite often sightly below expectation which is a twist... right now I'm enjoying an ESB I brewed using S-04. I have to admit, it's getting rave reviews from my friends!
 

7Enigma

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So can you folks comment on which would be the better yeast for my Double Chocolate and Oatmeal Stouts? (Safale/Nottingham)
 

conpewter

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I've used munton's before and just was not happy with it. For the rare dry yeast that I do use it's Nottingham (Edwort's Haus Pale Ale FTW!). Otherwise I culture liquid strains.

I would use Wyeast 1084 in an oatmeal stout, tends to be my house yeast strain.

If you are up to using liquid yeast, check out WyeastLabs site, you can find a lot of Style-> yeast info.

http://www.wyeastlab.com/hb_styledetails.cfm?ID=163
 

Austinhomebrew

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This is good to know. I haven't had a complaint in the 8 years I have sold the Munton's yeast. I will take this into consideration. Thanks.

Forrest
 

david_42

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Munton's standard yeast has a medium attenuation. It's targeted at lower gravities ales that use simple sugars as part of the fermentables. The low attenuation of malt sugars leaves a slightly sweet finish. Munton's Gold attenuates more like Nottingham. If you use extract instead of cane sugar in that type of kit or in a all-malt recipe, you get high final gravities.

As they put it:

Muntons Standard Yeast

It has very hardy characteristics and will tolerate a wide variety of temperature variations during fermentation.

For recipes demanding the use of sugar our Standard Yeast is ideal. If all malt brewing is undertaken we would recommend that you use our Premium Gold Yeast as our Standard Yeast will struggle to ferment some of the more complex sugars which are more prevalent in all malt recipes.
 

landis

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Bringing this one back from the dead. I just thought that I would chime in that a Stout I just brewed with 2 packs of muntons gave out at 1.020. After a month of fermentation and occasional shakes to get it moving it gave up. SG was only 1.050, so I'm looking at a fairly low ABV (3.9) but that doesn't matter. Sure tasted good green and non-carbonated. It's actually a chocolate oatmeal stout, so some sweetness won't be an issue.
 

Tweaker

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I have brewed 2 True brew kits now and had the same problem.(munton's yeast) Final SG would not get low enough vs advertised. Off .009 and .006.
 

Winesburg Ale

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I'm looking at a similar situation with a high gravity ale. It's been in the primary for only 3 days, but I've been hearing a lot of bad things about Muntons. Would it do any good to pitch some Nottingham yeast in the primary at this point?
 

R2-D2

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Here's another thread resurrection.

I too used Muntons for an Austin Homebrew Sam Smith Oatmeal Stout clone. SG was 1.051 and after a week I am stuck at 1.019. The sample tastes great so I'm not terribly disappointed at all. Been giving it a big swirl every other day to get a bit lower but not really doing much. Plan to keep in primary at least 2-3 weeks more to see if helps.

I probably won't use Muntons again though.
 

Effington

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I have several Muntons packets saved up from upgrades to Midwest extract kits... not sure what to do with them. Maybe make pretzels like someone suggested. Or maybe mead?? Cyser?
 

7Enigma

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After this thread and my bad experience with Munton's from an AHS kit I've switched to Nottingham and never looked back. Probably done 5-6 batches since then and never had a problem other than an almost explosion when I double-pitched Nottingham in my Ruination IPA clone! :rockin:
 

zaxxon23

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I know this is an old thread, but I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of proper yeast rehydration when using dry yeast or proper pitching rates.

You will see a big difference with dry yeast if you do proper rehydration before pitching into your wort.

I know most of the dry packets say you can just dump them right into the wort, but if you do that probably about 50% of the live yeast in the packet will die off right away. If you take the time to properly rehydrate before pitching, you can get near double the amount of active healthy cells going in your beer.

I find with the Muntons this can be especially important because one packet already is half the size of a packet of Safale yeast.

Best bet is to just follow the yeast brand's instructions on their web site for what the proper rehydration process is.

The key is to put the yeast in the right kind of liquid to rehydrate. You don't want it to go dry into beer wort or into distilled/DI/RO water. You want it to rehydrate into clean sterile water, but water that is not as void of minerals, etc as distilled/DI/RO water.

The reason behind this is that when yeast is in the dehydrated form, its cell membrane becomes very weak. When it is first put back into a liquid, it cannot control what goes in our out of the cell membrane.

So, if it goes directly into wort, too much sugar and other stuff goes into the cell and it dies. If it goes directly into distilled/DI/RO water, the water is so pure that too much good stuff is pulled out of the yeast cell and into the water.

A good bet is to use dechlored, boiled then cooled (to sanitize) tap water. I've heard bottled spring water is probably okay, too, but may not be sterile directly out of the jug.

Also, proper pitching rates are important. The Muntons dry pack is half the size in grams of a Safale pack, so if you are going by packet count and not grams, you'll definitely have a difference in one pack of Muntons vs. one pack of Safale.

I like the pitching rate calc on mrmalty.com to determine how much dry yeast to use. I don't usually measure out to the exact gram, but at least try to get close with how many packs I pitch. The yeast amount calculated on that site assumes proper rehydration, so you may want to double the number if you don't rehydrate -- but then you're putting lots of dead yeast into your beer -- yuk! :)

Cheers and happy brewing!
:mug:
 

r_flagg

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I know this is an old thread, but I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of proper yeast rehydration when using dry yeast or proper pitching rates.
Yeah, everybody saw Munton's and ran with it. I agree, that a proper starter helped with those Munton's yellow/green packs, but I also have to +1 on the Nottingham and Windsor.

Has anyone tried the Munton's premium pack in white/gold?
 

phishfood

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I have used the Munton's Gold several times. The first time I used it, I just pitched the dry yeast into the wort (IIRC). It took a long time to get going, maybe 2 or 3 days. Fermentation was slow and steady.

I washed that yeast cake, and since then have made starters from that yeast cake and another second generation washed yeast cake. The fermentations take off just as fast as any other yeast, and finish pretty quickly. Bottle carbing seems to be considerably slower than many other yeasts, maybe because the yeast flocculates out pretty well. I am not very knowledgeable on what flavor is what, but I can say that the beer I have made with Munton's Gold is good, and gets better with time.

The beers I have made with it are a basic porter and a light bitter.
 

7Enigma

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zaxxon23 and r flagg,

No one "ran with it" bagging on Munton's. Several people on this forum saw symptoms of stuck fermentations regardless of hydration methods. I was one of them.

My hydration process is as follows: boil water in microwave to be used for fermentation in glass cup. Add 2-3 tablespoons of my boiling wort (I wait until about 2/3rd's through my boil to start the yeast). This sanitizes the cup/water/wort, and removes any excess chlorine from the tap (I do not have chloramine). Let this cool to around 110F, drop in the packet and let it sit for 5 min. During this time it will slowly little by little sink into the water. Then vigorously froth with a fork (previously cleaned with a sanitizer). Cover with a plastic bag and put in a dark place (I use my cabinet next to the sink). By pitching time this starter normally has a 3-4" head of foam and is actively fermenting. The advantage here is a gentle introduction to all of the sugars/ingredients in the mix but in a much more dilute fashion.

As David_42 previously posted the reason for these stuck fermentations are inability of the normal Munton's to properly metabolize complex sugars that are present in malts. So it's less of the Munton's regular yeast being "bad" and more of the retailers bundling their recipes with the wrong yeast for the job.

Just to clarify some of your post that is incorrect you seem to be reversing what actually happens with the yeast. Due to the weak membrane caused by the drying process when added directly to the wort it is not the sugars/other stuff that goes into the cell that damages/kills it, rather it is the water that is leeched out of the cell.

The opposite is true when rehydrating in straight water, as the yeast cannot maintain proper salt concentrations and essentially dies/weakens due to overhydration. Having a low percentage of wort in the liquid buffers between the two extremes and gives you the best chance for a high viability. But this will do nothing if the yeast itself cannot meet the proper attenuation.

HTH
 

r_flagg

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You make a good point 7Enigma. I suppose that's why many people have stopped using them. I am still a noob myself, but early on I wondered at the decision to put a pack of generic yeast into every single beer kit. I stopped using Munton's after my 3rd batch and started moving on to type specific yeasts. I almost exclusively use liquid yeasts now, but when in doubt I like Notty or Windsor. I didn't know about dry yeast having a weakened cell membrane. Time for some more research! :rockin:
 

7Enigma

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I don't brew as frequently as I used to (3 week old), but still like the flexibility of a dry yeast for storage/emergency uses. I switched to Safale and Nottingham depending on type of brew and have nothing but great things to say about them. Again, I've never used Munton's Gold and it's probably good as well, but if it ain't broke...
 

phishfood

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You rehydrate in 110 degree water/wort? Everything that I have heard and read is that you shouldn't allow the yeast to contact a liquid that is more than 80 degrees, or you risk killing the yeast.

If it is working for you, like you say, don't fix what ain't broke... But that goes counter to everything I thought I knew about yeast.
 

7Enigma

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You rehydrate in 110 degree water/wort? Everything that I have heard and read is that you shouldn't allow the yeast to contact a liquid that is more than 80 degrees, or you risk killing the yeast.

If it is working for you, like you say, don't fix what ain't broke... But that goes counter to everything I thought I knew about yeast.
Pretty much any commercial yeast that doesn't just say, "Dump in fermenter" will give you those instructions.

Yeast PREFER temperatures warmer than 80F, it's just that they produce off-flavors that do not work well in most beer/wine. When you keep them at their proper temperatures <70F they metabolize slower and produce the cleaner products that we cherish as home-brewers.

But yes for hydration the recommended temperature is over 100F and I think most aim for about 110F depending on exact strain (a wrist check of the water is what I use and it should not be hot but very warm). It takes a lot of energy to come out of stasis and the warmer temperature helps speed up the process of rehydration.
 

rico567

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I have several Muntons packets saved up from upgrades to Midwest extract kits... not sure what to do with them. Maybe make pretzels like someone suggested. Or maybe mead?? Cyser?
Midwest will throw a pack of Munton's in with my kits, even though I've ordered the liquid yeast upgrades. When they're ready to go out of date, I just use them for baking. It works very well for that. When I'm doing a beer recipe that involves dry yeast, I use either S-05 or Nottingham
 

LostBrewer

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Yes, I experience a stalling in mine as well. Pitched more to see it start for three days before dieing again. I didn't have the spine to pour out what tasted like burnt tires because I spent too much on it. After six months the burnt rubber taste and smell went away leaving a "complex" fruity taste which was drinkable.

I just looked at the two packs I have ... one is over 2 years past its expiration date. Therefore, check to see if it's past or not ... that might have something to do with it.
 

shanek17

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Munton's standard yeast has a medium attenuation. It's targeted at lower gravities ales that use simple sugars as part of the fermentables. The low attenuation of malt sugars leaves a slightly sweet finish. Munton's Gold attenuates more like Nottingham. If you use extract instead of cane sugar in that type of kit or in a all-malt recipe, you get high final gravities.

As they put it:

I just used a dry packet of muntons standard ale yeast 6gram blue and gold package and Im trying to figure out the attenuation and flocculation of this yeast. Now your saying it has a medium attenuation but maybe were talking about two different munton standards yeast? I contacted the muntons company by email and on their facebook page so hopefully I get a response from them....

I did find this information on a website regarding muntons standard yeast. But they are saying its both highly attenuative and flocculent. Which doesnt really make sense to me because I just watched a 40 minute presentation by WYEAST and the presenter said that if a yeast is high flocculant that it falls to the bottom of the fermenter and is less actively eating sugar and therefore that yeast has less attenuation. So if thats true how come this website below says that munton standard yeast is both high attenuation and flocculation?

http://byo.com/index.php?option=com_byocharts&view=yeasts&Itemid=194

Name & Number Type Lab Floc Atten Temp Description

Muntons Standard Yeast D High High 57-77° Clean well balanced ale yeast.

TALKING YEAST WITH WYEAST LABORATORIES (2012)
 
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unionrdr

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After reading PDF's on the yeasts I've used,usual rehydration temp range is 90-105F. Then cool it down to within 10 degrees of wort temp before pitching.
I've also ordered kita from midwest,& they always seem to give Munton's regular yeast in ale kita unless a premium dry yeast is checked off. Then I get US-05.
 
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