Allagash Curieux Clone

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dogbar

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Wondering if anybody has info on Chichum timeline post, post #165. Is that accurate or have others racked to secondary(or left in primary), added oak cubes, and bottled at different times?
It's accurate in the sense that he did it and it worked for him, but you can go a different way.

I typically use a shorter schedule up front (three weeks in primary, three-ish weeks in secondary with oak) and then let it age out in the keg for a few months from there.

Last time I made a tripel I aged it in a used brandy barrel. Came out remarkably similar to this.
 

bolus14

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I brewed this yesterday and missed the OG by a lot, only ended up at 1.060. This was my 4th BIAB but first time use grains from an online retailer and I think the milling was different than when I do it at LHBS. On my first three I got 75% - 77% eficiency so I didn't make any adjustments to the recipe.

Any thoughts on adjusting the oak/bourbon schedule of the OG to prevent the oak/bourbon from overpowering the base beer? Should I add sugar or something else to boost the ABV after the initial fermentation?

The good thing is I saved some of the yeast with plans to use some at bottling time, which I don't think I need now, and then freeze the rest for future brews of this or possibly other Belgians. That'll save $17 each time I brew this or around $8 for other Belgians since the combo of these strains seems like it should satisfy most Belgian styles.
 

jabergess

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You already added the 1 lb of corn sugar with 15 minutes left in the boil correct? I don't know if I would add anymore sugar as this turned out very dry for me both times and adding sugar is going to dry it out even more. If it were me I would just adjust the amount of bourbon and oak I add in secondary. Beersmith tells me if I started with a 1.06 and ended with my same 1.004 my beer would be 7.3% which is still respectable. Also consider saving part of your beer from the oak and bourbon and blending it afterwards. I really liked what I got by doing that.
 
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1Mainebrew

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Yeah a little sugar, and or a mini mash could both be used to boost your gravity. Or you could just decrease the amount of oak and bourbon, or you could make it again (crush your own this time) and use this beer to be what you blend it with. After fermentation you'll have lots of free yeast and you'll end up with 10 gallons of craft blended curiuex clone. Let us know your decision!
 

bolus14

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Thanks for the quick replies.

Yes I added the sugar at 15min. I was a little worried about adding more because I don't want it to be overly dry as others have pointed out, I think that's what's good about Allagash's Tripel is that it has some body and some sweetness to it. I did the same as you and guesstimated ending around 1. 005. I am planning to hold 1 - 1.5gal to mix back into the bourban aged portion.

I'll definitely crush my own going forward. This was my first time having it done and shipped to me, I was just trying to justify the cost of shipping since I gave LHBS 2 wks to order the Wyeast strain and they still didn't get it in. I would love to have 10gal of Curieux :D unfortunately storage space is getting pretty low, I need to drink more!!

For this one I think i'm going to ride it out as is. Just wasn't sure on the aging portion, if the lower ABV would have an effect on it or not. I'll just sample every 3 or 4 days after the first week and once I think it has a touch more bourbon taste than I want I'll mix it with the unaged portion and bottle 'er up.
 

bolus14

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Has anybody held back some of the base tripel?
Just wondering if it stands well on its own. I haven't been able to check on my fermentation of this to taste it, but I'm now thinking of possibly keeping some without the bourbon.
I'm thinking of going with this:
1gal base Tripel
1gal hold back to mix with the bourbon aged portion
3gal age on Devil's Cut soaked oak cubes for 1 -2 weeks, until taste is where I want.

I'm mainly trying to keep some variety till the end of the year since I'm nto planning to brew anything until after Christmas, to many things going on this time of year.
 

dogbar

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The base beer stands well on its own. It's a little dryer pre-oak-aging, which I like.
 

jabergess

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If you mean held back just to drink without blending, no I didn't do that. But I did taste the tripel before blending and it was excellent so I see no problems with doing that! I momentarily contemplated not adding oak or bourbon and just going with it, but that wasn't the point of the exercise! You should find your base beer a little sweeter than the other.
 

jabergess

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The base beer stands well on its own. It's a little dryer pre-oak-aging, which I like.
Haha. That's funny, I thought the opposite - drier POST oak aging.
My second beer with the blend is less dry than my first beer with all of the beer aged on oak and bourbon all other numbers being the same.
 
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I am going to brew a 12 gallon batch of this on Sunday. Wish me luck! I have not been able to brew in quite some time so this will be fun!

Thanks for sharing your experience with this recipe. I have wanted to do it for a LONG time now!

Cheers
Jay
 

MotorcycleMatt

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I am going to brew a 12 gallon batch of this on Sunday. Wish me luck! I have not been able to brew in quite some time so this will be fun!

Thanks for sharing your experience with this recipe. I have wanted to do it for a LONG time now!

Cheers
Jay

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Good luck, we tweaked ours recipe.

3.5oz of oak cubes and then we added another 6 shots of Bourbon at bottling.

Its still smooth, but very boozy with a slight hint of smokeyness.

Cheers
 
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1Mainebrew

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I am going to brew a 12 gallon batch of this on Sunday. Wish me luck! I have not been able to brew in quite some time so this will be fun!

Thanks for sharing your experience with this recipe. I have wanted to do it for a LONG time now!

Cheers
Jay
First of all, I can't believe I'm getting you to brew a recipe I posted! Super cool!

Anyway, Its definitely a nice beer to split and then to age half on the bourbon and oak and then blend them together. It gives you greater control on the the overall flavor profile. Its really easy for the bourbon to be a bit overwhelming, so the blending helps to tone that down and let its be a little less in your face and more authentically Curieux. It also decreases aging time and it gets it into your glass a tad sooner. But as so many have done with this recipe, try it a few times and get it in your personal sweet spot and enjoy it when a celebratory style beer is in order. Have fun brewing up your own Curieux.
 

bolus14

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Transferred 3 gal to secondary tonight with 2.5oz of oak cubes. Planning to let it sit for a week, taste, and bottle next Sat/Sun if it tastes ready.

I'm going to use about 1 gal that isn't "bourbon aging" to bottle as a regular Tripel, the hydro sample tonight tasted amazing right out of the primary. Had a little bit of prickly carbonation to it and surprisingly sweet and fruity, orange/pineapple sweet in a very good way. I see myself making just the base recipe in the future. Would be nice if I could make a 10 gal batch and split it.

I do BIAB and have an 11gal kettle so might be able to pull off a 7 or 8 gal batch. Then I could bottle 4 or 5 gal as plain Tripel and as long as I like the Curieux end product I would make 3 or 4 gal of that.
 

bolus14

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Bottled this up this morning. Due to some medical issues in the family I may be out of town for a week or two, or longer not sure at this point depends on some tests, so I decided to stay on the early side of aging rather than too long side. The secondary was still pretty cloudy, not much I could do there, it'll clear in the bottle and if it doesn't all that much closer to Curieux since that is slightly cloudy anyway.

The couple samples I tasted had some of the bourbon(Devil's Cut not original JB) cinnamon, nutmeg, vanilla to it, not sure I would be able to break that apart tasting it blind though, and surprisingly since Devil's Cut is pulled from the barrels I was expecting a stronger oak character but I really didn't pick up on much oak. The base Tripel is still very much there though, I was hoping this would be the case and that the bourbon wouldn't simply overpower it. It still needs time to blend together, no surprise there.

I'll withhold final judgement until after it's in the bottle for 3 -4 weeks, I'm planning on leaving them alone until Thanksgiving. At this point however I'm happy with how this came together, besides my low OG but that's no fault of the recipe :)
 
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1Mainebrew

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Hope everything's alright with your fams health issues. Take care
 

redbone

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Is everyone still basing this off the recipe posted on the first page by 1Mainebrew or has there been any tweaks in the past 22 pages? Thanks. 1Mainebrew, please post the current recipe of you can if its not what was originally posted. Thanks!
 

scoots

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I love this beer. Thanks for the thread. I am going to brew this today. 11 gallon batch to try to get 2 kegs of finished beer. One to drink and one to store.

Have you changed the recipe based on the %AA in the hops? I was guessing the % did not matter much as the oak and bourbon would be the distinctive flavor.
 

jabergess

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I just took a cursory glance at the alpha acids and IBUs. I didn't make any adjustments other than to just follow what the recipe said for ounces. Like you said, it is mostly about the oak and bourbon (and fruity flavors from the yeast).
 

bolus14

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Using brewmate I calculated the IBUs at 32.
Like you said this is more about the yeast and the bourbon the hops are mainly there to balance and maybe contribute a touch of spiciness.
 
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1Mainebrew

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I got 29 IBUs but 32 is really no difference at all. Enjoy !
 
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Brewed a variation of this yesterday. Going like crazy this morning... Will report back when she is done. I am going to bottle this in cork -n- cage bottles....
Smells AMAZING! Ended up a tad high on my OG 1.092 Must be the False Bottom system I use :D

Cheers
Jay
 

jabergess

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Entering mine in a homebrew competition. It was hard to pick a category. I've settled on Wood Aged but as a clone of Allagash which I hope accounts for the bourbon in it as well. I could also pick Belgian Specialty I believe. Any thoughts?
 

bolus14

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I would say more Belgian Specialty. To my palette in the original or in this clone it's more about combining the fruity esters with the bourbon which allows you to taste the spices and oak that make up the bourbon. Many bourbon aged beers, especially commercial ones, seem to emphasize the bourbon too much or too little, not many get it right like Allagash has with Curieux and Bourbon Black.

The advantage I see putting it on Wood Aged is that you don't find many Belgians that are aged this way, mostly limited edition/special release stuff that doesn't get wide distribution. So, it may be a "surprise" to the judges and earn you some extra points. It could also hurt you for these same reasons, it's not that common so some may not take to understanding why you would mix a Tripel with bourbon. It's in the Eye of the Enjoyer!
 

scoots

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Just kegged mine. This is one tasty beer even uncarbed! Was definitely worth sampling every week to "test" the oak/bourbon.

I used Woodfield Reserve, but next time I think I will use Beer Barrel Bourbon from New Holland. That is one tasty bourbon!
 
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My blow off tube got plugged sometime throughout the day. Blew it off then blew off the lid but not before spewing all over my fermentation room......Baaaahhhhhhhh I love it!

But it smells AMAZING!!!

Cheers
Jay
 

mister704

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Hey all, I'm looking for some input on my clone. I made it with:

13 lb pilsner malt
1 lb Carapils
1 lb corn sugar
0.5 oz tettnang 60 mins
1 oz hersbrucker 60 min
.25 oz tettnang 30 mins
.5 oz hersbrucker 30 mins
.25 oz tettnang 10 mins
.5 oz hersbrucker 10 min
.5 gal starter of wyeast Belgian Ardennes and wlp550

OG 1.085

it's been in primary for a bit now. I was planning on 30 days primary solo, then 30 days more (still on the cake) with 3 oz of Hungarian medium toast oak cubes that have been soaking in Jim beam for almost a month already- major bourbon flavor being the aim just like Curieux.

So my questions are:

1) is the 60 days too long in primary?
2) is that too much oak for 5 gals of beer?

Thanks for the input.
I am soooo happy someone resurrected this. I LOVE this beer. I am trying to create this. Couple of questions:

  1. How many ounces of oak cubes did you use?
  2. And the Pilsner you used is German I am guessing correct?
  3. My calculation in brewersfriend is coming under the OG and IBU...am I missing something?
  4. Going to be my first time using a starter...did you use both yeasts or just one. I am a little lost as to exactly what you did with the yeasts. Did you use a full vial of WLP550 and of the Belgian Ardennes
  5. Lastly, how did you mash? Time and temp?

Sorry for all the questions but I would love to make this beer.

 
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1Mainebrew

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Well it looks pretty good to me, 2 gravity points will come out in the mash. Mash low like 148, and long, a full 90 mins. You add the sugar at the end if the boil. Boil as hard as you can for a full 90 mins with the German Pilsner malt. You're not looking for a ton of IBUs so don't worry if you're under. And yes I built up a starter with BOTH yeasts. Enjoy
 

mister704

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Well it looks pretty good to me, 2 gravity points will come out in the mash. Mash low like 148, and long, a full 90 mins. You add the sugar at the end if the boil. Boil as hard as you can for a full 90 mins with the German Pilsner malt. You're not looking for a ton of IBUs so don't worry if you're under. And yes I built up a starter with BOTH yeasts. Enjoy
Thanks man....I appreciate it.
 

mhot55

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Second batch in last 2 winters. Although missed OG by several point this year- still love this beer. Even rushed the bourbon/oak to 1 month this year instead of 2-3 months (impatient). And still awesome. This has become a standard yearly winter recipe but is great year around. I bottle the last gallon and save for summer.
 

mister704

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Got my oak cubes soaking FINALLY.

One question, do you soak the in the fridge or just regular room temp?
 

bolus14

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I don't think it matters. I did mine at room temp. Others on this forum have done the same and others have said in the fridge.

Sent from my HTC6435LVW using Home Brew mobile app
 

jabergess

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Room temperature for me. I don't really see a need to refrigerate it?
 

mister704

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Room temperature for me. I don't really see a need to refrigerate it?
Same thing I thought. I will probably brew in a week or so and let it sit in the primary for at least 3 weeks. So the cubes should be good by then.

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butterpants

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What are you guys doing for fermentation temperature schedule on this? Very interested
 

jabergess

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I just won first place today in the Suwanee Beer Fest Homebrew competition in Georgia for the wood category with this beer!
 
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