All my IPAs taste the same

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snowtires

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I did have a hot scotchie that day. Those things are KILLING my efficiency.

Actually I was putting my finishing hops in a little bowl and... I can't remember what heppened.

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snowtires

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I use cheap rum and call it a runnings rummy

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masonsjax

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To me cheap scotch is the worst of the cheap liquors, only good for cleaning tools. I usually use mid level bourbon for hot scotchies. I like to savor my single malts.
 
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jabergess

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I had to look up a hot scotchie. Now I see! I've had a few brewery mishaps, though all just from too much beer. Maybe that's what is missing in my IPAs!
 

RonPopeil

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i've had some issues with my beers all having a similar flavor. my answer is cutting my water with distilled and keg detailing.
 

Weideshire

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Since you enjoy Dogfish Head's 60 Minute IPA, I thought it might be worth mentioning that Dogfish continuously hops their IPAs during the boil. In their own words: "60 Minute IPA is continuously hopped -- more than 60 hop additions over a 60-minute boil."

I always visualize my first IPA having me leaning with my backside against the kitchen sink as I toss one hop pellet at a time across the kitchen into the wort. :)
 

Rdom

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Jabergass, have you tried doing a hopstand? Look at the recipe for Hop Stand Double IPA on donosborn.com. Haven't tried it myself but his notes describe it as "full hop flavor" and he uses some of the same citrusy hops you have used in your previous attempts.
Also, how do you store your hops and how long? My IPA's started tasting the same (not necessarily in a bad way) once the pound of Columbus I had was no longer fresh.
 

snowtires

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I just had a homebrew from a fellow homebrewer and it was a all citra IPA zombie dust clone. It was the best IPA I have ever had. It was citrusy

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RonPopeil

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Well lets throw this log on the fire.

Maybe you're drinking too green? Hoppy beers are best fresh but I don't think that means you have to drink them as soon as they carb. Maybe it just means you don't want to leave it for a few months and then come back to it. I'm having an experience with a beer on tap right now that's improving with a few weeks in the keg.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/first-time-nugget-falconers-flight-450892/
 

Fishhy

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I find a good first wort hopping, lots of late/flamout hops, and dry hopping give good results with citra...

It looks like from what you have posted, fermentation temps are good, as well as water chemistry.
Chill times do make a difference as well as reducing light/oxygen exposure after fermentation starts.

One thing I wonder though, is it possible your sparge temps are too high (calibrated thermometer?)
I wonder if the peppery flavor you are getting might not be a bitterness from tannins?
 

RedShirt

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I'm excited to hear when you resolve this issue. Question - how's the level of malt flavor in your IPAs? Not the residual sweetness, but are you getting any level of desirable bready or toasty notes from the base malt?
 

sudbuster

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I've done extensive amount of research and still can't come up with anything definitive on what is causing all of my IPAs to taste about the same. I thought I was on to something when I started looking at my water profile so the last IPA I did I used distilled water and added chemicals to make it "McDoles Pale Water" per the GBA Brewing Water Chemistry Primer. I also fermented that IPA at 65 degrees for 10 days and then 68 for 10 more days per a recipe on MoreBeer's site. Nope, still tasted like all the others. Maybe slightly smoother, but that's about it.

Anyway, so all my IPAs (13 of them and counting) come out spicy/peppery no matter what hops I use or what hop schedule I follow. My dream IPA has citrusy notes and gives me what I call "hop burps". :D Just about everyone else that likes IPAs thinks my beer is fine, but I want citrus dammit! And I want my beer to all stop tasting the same whether I use Simcoe or Citra.

I've tried different grain recipes, hopbursting, adding gypsum, adding 5.2 powder, extract only, more or only late addition hops, etc. Only my last IPA did I try using distilled water so maybe it is the combination of water issues and other things? I'm wondering if prolonged wort cooling times plays a role because depending on when I brew it can take over an hour to cool the wort. It makes sense to me that it would isomerize the hops, but some of my beers have not had prolong cooling times so either it is water playing a role or something else. My water profile is: 9.7 pH, 11 Na, 4 Ca, 1 Mg, 2 SO4, 7 Cl, 9 CO3, 22 HCO3 and I have run it through a cartridge filter for several years (the water profile is after running it through a filter). Everything I've read said that water is only good for dark beers so I get where my early beers wouldn't be like I want, but I can't explain the extract beer or the distilled water beer not cooperating.
I've mashed at various temperatures from 154 down to 149. Would a higher mash temperature even affect the character of the hop or just of the malt flavor??
All other styles of ales come out fine, other than a couple of times my dark beers have turned into gushers. I have no idea if that is related. Oh and usually I keg my IPAs, not bottle them...

Of course I want to keep trying things but I'm not certain which way to go now and I feel like Charlie Brown with that darned football! Either I'm just missing the right combination of things to do or I'm out to lunch all together.
Friend, I've read about 3/3 of this thread, and have come to the conclusion that all IPA's will taste the same because, at least in the USA, IPS's are hop bombs. Hop bombs kill any chance of detecting background flavours. A brewer could load up the fermenter with pig swill and dump in enough hops, and every hop head would think it was great, that is, IMHO.
 

smizak

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Friend, I've read about 3/3 of this thread, and have come to the conclusion that all IPA's will taste the same because, at least in the USA, IPS's are hop bombs. Hop bombs kill any chance of detecting background flavours. A brewer could load up the fermenter with pig swill and dump in enough hops, and every hop head would think it was great, that is, IMHO.
You are sooooooo wrong......

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stpug

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You are sooooooo wrong......
Agreed. The following few example taste NOTHING alike when it comes to distinctive characteristics. While they all contain an elevated amount of hop presence, neither the base beer style nor the hop characteristics taste similar among the bunch (at least, no more than any beer tastes like any other beer) - and this is keeping the example somewhat similar.

Cigar City Jai Alai
Bell's Two-Hearted
Lagunitas Sucks
Odell St Lupulin
 
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jabergess

jabergess

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Oh I'm behind on the posts. I was in Denver drinking my way through their very awesome microbrew/brewpub scene.
My IPAs do improve with age but they never get citrusy. I think the spicy just tames down a little. I don't get bready or malty notes from the beers. I've purposefully made a more full bodied IPA but nothing that tasted off. I was trying to make the 5 Seasons Hopgasm which isn't dried out like a lot of IPAs. I haven't tried a hop stand, but I have circulated for roughly 20 minutes the last time I brewed after flameout and when the temperature was around 180. I may go to a longer time frame. I use 2 thermometers when I brew so I feel pretty good the temperatures are correct. One is threaded into the pot and the other is a high tech hand held. Both have been calibrated.
My hops have been anywhere from just bought to a year old. I keep them in their nitrogen bags in the freezer. I always smell them prior to use and I've had to chuck some, but not many because they smelled off. I know your AAs diminish over time as do the precious chemicals that give you all those wonderful flavors.
I drink enough beer and certainly enough IPAs to know they aren't all the same. Roughly a handful stand out from the rest. I can make an IPA that is on par with MOST commercial IPAs. However, I'm trying to make one that measures equal to that handful. I would say if anyone thinks IPAs all taste the same they need to do more analysis. Analyzing is always fun! =-)
 

snowtires

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Sounds like you need a shwack of hops maybe try 1lb per 5 gallons

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jabergess

jabergess

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Have you ever made an IPA with 16 ounces of hops? Just curious.
 

snowtires

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Jabergess I am officially diagnosing you with hop headedness and challenge you to a 1 lb hop brew sir.
I have a brew in the fermenter with 12oz of hops but 16oz no, that will be the next brew

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jabergess

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You got it! Only my name is Julie so that would be ma'am, not sir! ;-) I think I've gone as far as 12 oz myself. Mostly out of desperation.
 

snowtires

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I am prescribing 16oz of citra amarillo simcoe and chinook ma'am

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jabergess

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I haven't posted here in awhile. I did a Simcoe Pale Ale and it is much, much better. While not the citrus I am looking for I taste the Simcoe and not just spicy hops, it is way more complex - and the aroma is to die for. It has actually gotten better and better with time. (I have the dry hop hanging in the keg) The body of the beer is a little lighter than I prefer (mashed at 150) so I have a Citra IPA in secondary now that was mashed at a slightly higher temp and with more crystal for body/sweetness as well. So far the key seems to be that hop stand at the end and LOTS of hops. The Pale ale had 10 oz of hops in it and the Citra has 14 oz of hops with 4 oz being added at flameout and whirlpooled for 20 minutes at 140 degrees. I have been doing water adjustments using the Ez Water Calculator along with the water profile for my water. Thanks for everyone's help!
 

snowtires

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Wow. 14oz of citra. If you can't taste that one I suggest switching to moonshine
 
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jabergess

jabergess

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Just a followup on this conversation. My Citra IPA was the best ever! Very citrusy and not spicy. I still can't say what the secret is, but I did water additions and the only hops were Magnum for bittering and Citra for everything else. I also did a hopstand. My recipe was from an earlier IPA I made that had a good malt backbone. My next one will probably just be some other stand out hop and the same malt.
 

lbond2

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Lots of great advice...I have brewed a bunch of IPA with great success...here is my advice, 2 row ya maybe...I prefer Marris otter, use adjuncts, 1lb Belgian candied sugar for a 1060 wort...look the ratios up for this, it helps ease the yeast transition during the first fermentation phase. I use either super yeast or dry English ale yeast...big starter 3-5billion depending on gravity. At boil whack it hard with warrior or galena, 3 oz at 60, 2oz at 45 with simcoe, or warrior, or mosaic...lastly hit it with 5 oz of simcoe, or citra, or galaxy, or mosaic, or a combo of these. Then 3-5 oz dry hope with these hops for 1-2 weeks...BOOM, yummy time :)


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grathan

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You can taste anything but bitter with 5 oz of Galena/Warrior at 45 minutes or greater? That's interesting. I am almost scared to try it.
 

lbond2

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Ya, good point on the bittering, maybe I should had mentioned gravity...if your gravity is 1080 +\- use at least 2 oz on every addition..I like to use 3. You probably wondering why so much...I like to brew more double IPAs so to balance the hops and malt a guy needs waaaaayyyy more hopps than he/she thinks. Lastly, the ISO-alpha acids will bond to the yeast decreasing the actual bitterness in a beer. IBUs are kind of a guesstament not an exact number.. Go for what tastes good and forget about an ibu number. I brewed a 1107 double (way too big by the way) and used 1 1/2lbs of hops along the way and it turned out not very hoppy, just to give you an example...


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smiffbrewing

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when you are dry hopping are you rousing the hops periodiicay? this helps get the most out of them. also dry hopping temps can make a huge difference in aromas.
 

lbond2

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Yes...I do rouse the hops...what temps do you like for flavor and aroma??? The higher the more potent?? Great thread on IPAs by the way!!!


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RonPopeil

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I've tried aging my hoppy beers longer as of late. It seems like it takes at least 4 weeks for nice hop flavors to emerge.
 

lbond2

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4 WEEKS!!!?? Try more hops, dry hopping every 3-4 days for a week or two. I have even dry hopped in my keg and that works well.

Remember, IPAs are enjoyed young my friend!


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