All my brews have the same stupid flavor...

[cyanmonkey]

Brewing all grain, batch sparge, checking mash pH and adjusting my water from distilled. Starters with a stirplate, oxygenation with pure O2.

The thing is, I get an undesirable weird bitterness in my last 3 brews. I'm wondering it if it's my water? Using Bru 'n Water to make my adjustments.

I've also gotten upwards of 90% apparent attenuation with my last two brews. I like them dry, but I brewed a peach ale for my wife that finished at 1.008 from 1.065 and the Tripel I just brewed went from 1.071 to 1.005. Both were mashed at 151. Was expecting 1.012 on the Tripel, so I'm concerned about a bug in my system, but I've changed most everything out minus my oxygenation, but I have no other indication of an infection other than a low FG.

Has anyone had this issue? I might try to brew with my tap water, it's just really hard, my alkalinity is very low and I don't know the water profile.

Thoughts?

 

[brettg20]

Try mashing a little higher...maybe 154-ish?

 

[cyanmonkey]

Try mashing a little higher...maybe 154-ish?

I thought about that and even wondered if my thermometer was off but I double checked. Would a 3 degree change in mash temp change fermentables by that much?

 

[stpug]

Yeast strain is a determining factor for AA.

Thermometer problem maybe?

 

[cyanmonkey]

Yeast strain is a determining factor for AA.

Thermometer problem maybe?

Before this one was with Wyeast 1968, a notorious low finisher. Wouldn't expect 90% with it. Tripel was 3787, which I'm not too surprised at.

Is it possible my system just attenuates low and I should adjust accordingly? My plan is to mash a lot higher next time...or go extract...

Just wanted to know if anyone else has had issues with this before.

 

[madscientist451]

What yeast and malt bills/ingredients/hops in the last 3 brews?

 

[cyanmonkey]

Computer went kaput so i don't have other brews, but off top of my head the Tripel:

12.25 lb Bel Pils
1 lb Munich 10L
1lb Clear Candi Sugar

Mashed at 151*F and pitched at 65*F with Wyeast 3787 and let slowly rise to 70 over 4 days.

 

[brewguyver]

Do you have an air filter on your oxygen tank?

 

[cyanmonkey]

Do you have an air filter on your oxygen tank?

Of course.

 

[stpug]

Before this one was with Wyeast 1968, a notorious low finisher. Wouldn't expect 90% with it. Tripel was 3787, which I'm not too surprised at.

Is it possible my system just attenuates low and I should adjust accordingly? My plan is to mash a lot higher next time...or go extract...

Just wanted to know if anyone else has had issues with this before.

I'm just shooting from the hip here because it's hard to know for sure from a few posts on a forum, but I'll take a shot anyway.

I'm suspecting either an imprecise thermometer that reads too high such that your mash temps are much lower than you intend, or slipping mash temps greater than expected. I have found the most accurate way of measuring finishing mash temp is to stir up the mash for about 10 seconds to ensure good mixing of all mash locations (stuff near the cooler wall and stuff near the bottom and top).

 

[cyanmonkey]

I'm just shooting from the hip here because it's hard to know for sure from a few posts on a forum, but I'll take a shot anyway.

I'm suspecting either an imprecise thermometer that reads too high such that your mash temps are much lower than you intend, or slipping mash temps greater than expected. I have found the most accurate way of measuring finishing mash temp is to stir up the mash for about 10 seconds to ensure good mixing of all mash locations (stuff near the cooler wall and stuff near the bottom and top).

I know. What I was hoping for is oh yeah, I had that problem and it was (insert problem here).

I boiled water and checked my thermometer and it reads 210 which is accurate at my elevation. I check for consistent temp in the mash...I stir the crap out of it when I dough in an when I take a pH reading. I guess I'll just start eliminating things from my process until I figure out what works.

 

[Conan]

Have you tried just regular bottled water with no adjustments? I'm wondering if there's a mineral harshness you may be picking up from your water build. Kyle

 

[cyanmonkey]

Have you tried just regular bottled water with no adjustments? I'm wondering if there's a mineral harshness you may be picking up from your water build. Kyle

I was going to just use my tap water. I've made decent enough brews in the past with it but I chickened out at the last minute.

This beer finished at 1.004. I'm thinking I have a wild yeast or something because there's no way I should be getting so much attenuation and I'm curious if it's either from my starter (maybe the fridge when I crash?) or oxygenation stone, or something.

I dunno...just want to make good beer again.

 

[jakenbacon]

Are you stopping enzymatic conversion after you first run off to your kettle? I used to have my first runnings go into my kettle and sit there until I started running off my second runnings into that as well. turned out the first runnings of wort would drop temp a lot and enzymes would just keep converting, basically negating whatever my mash temp was. My beers were dry and thin and that helped... But I wouldn't think to the degree of dryness you are getting though....

 

[cyanmonkey]

Are you stopping enzymatic conversion after you first run off to your kettle? I used to have my first runnings go into my kettle and sit there until I started running off my second runnings into that as well. turned out the first runnings of wort would drop temp a lot and enzymes would just keep converting, basically negating whatever my mash temp was. My beers were dry and thin and that helped... But I wouldn't think to the degree of dryness you are getting though....

Hmm...I'm sparging at 170+ in my mash tun. Am I still getting conversion in my kettle? It also takes me a good 30 minutes to get up to a boil. I never even considered this.

 

[okbecker]

Have you checked calibration of your hydrometer lately, they can become inaccurate. Just wondering if the low AA is not a bad hydrometer reading...if that's the case then we may go down a different road to determine off flavors or desired flavors, etc... my 2 cents

 

[cyanmonkey]

Have you checked calibration of your hydrometer lately, they can become inaccurate. Just wondering if the low AA is not a bad hydrometer reading...if that's the case then we may go down a different road to determine off flavors or desired flavors, etc... my 2 cents

Yeah, it reads 1.002, but I've known that.

 

[bondra76]

Make 2 small (1 gallon or even 1/2 gallon) batches using your tap water and bottled water. Compare and contrast. If you get the same funky taste, then it's not your water.

 

[okbecker]

For the hell of it I would brew a gallon batch...

Prior to brewing Clean, Sanitize as you have normally been doing and mash at 158....if you still get that low of AA then I would rip everything apart and find the bug!

 

[cyanmonkey]

For the hell of it I would brew a gallon batch...

Prior to brewing Clean, Sanitize as you have normally been doing and mash at 158....if you still get that low of AA then I would rip everything apart and find the bug!

That was my next step.

If it's wild yeast, I wouldn't be able to see a pellicle, etc, right? I imagine it would just look like trub?

 

[okbecker]

Not always. Some wild yeast will form a pellicle on the surface. Tough to say where in your process you are picking it up, if this is the case. FYI: I read an article from a brewer who had discovered quite a bit of mold in his brewing area and was picking up contaminents just racking from primary to keg. He ended up going to a completely closed pressurize fermentation system to mitigate the issue.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Mold wouldn't attenuate would it?

 

[okbecker]

Dont know really about the mold, wouldnt assume so..just a thought really. If you do a smaller test batch, try it with just pitching yeast without a starter...may be able to eliminate one variable there as well.

 

[okbecker]

wouldnt need a starter for small batch anyway..lol

 

[cyanmonkey]

So if it comes out well, is it mash temp or starter?

I'm going to mash really high on my next one. I'm guessing the off flavor bitterness is from the absence of malt flavor. I mean if this stuff goes down to nothing in attenuation there's not going to be any balance in flavor so that makes sense to me.

 

[okbecker]

if it comes out good you have ultimately reduced your areas of concern to either the Mash or Starter. If it comes out good revamp your typical mash and starter process. If its still screwed then target everything.

 

[cyanmonkey]

You guys are great. Thanks for all the suggestions.

 

[Gameface]

Computer went kaput so i don't have other brews, but off top of my head the Tripel:

12.25 lb Bel Pils
1 lb Munich 10L
1lb Clear Candi Sugar

Mashed at 151*F and pitched at 65*F with Wyeast 3787 and let slowly rise to 70 over 4 days.

Does it actually rise slowly? Once fermentation takes off if you're not holding it down I'd imagine it'll get up to 70F pretty quick. And if you're not actively controlling fermentation temps you might have significant temp swings.

Looks like a yeast that can ferment on the hot side, but maybe at those temps it produces a flavor that some people like and other people, like yourself, don't.

 

[tagz]

I had high attenuation on a series of batches and finally narrowed it down to my thermometer. I also had 1968 finish at 90%AA. Beers we dry and thin. Seems like you checked the boiling temps; you can also check the low end with crushed ice and water. I like the idea of a small batch mashed high as well.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Does it actually rise slowly? Once fermentation takes off if you're not holding it down I'd imagine it'll get up to 70F pretty quick. And if you're not actively controlling fermentation temps you might have significant temp swings.



Looks like a yeast that can ferment on the hot side, but maybe at those temps it produces a flavor that some people like and other people, like yourself, don't.

It's not a phenolic issue, it's a lack of malt character. I love the stuff that yeast throws off, but it just seems unbalanced.

 

[cyanmonkey]

I had high attenuation on a series of batches and finally narrowed it down to my thermometer. I also had 1968 t finish at 90%AA. Beers we dry and thin. Seems like you checked the boiling temps; you can also check the low end with crushed ice and water. I like the idea of a small batch mashed high as well.

Well, if the boil temp is correct, but let's say the ice test reads high/low, what does that tell me? Just that I need a new thermometer?

 

[sboyajian]

I recently had issues too. Had a stout I expected to finish at 1.020, get to 1.010. An IPA I planned for 1.010 got to 1.004.

Turned out my thermometer was reading 8 degrees high. If I thought I was mashing at 150, I was really at 142.

Glad I only got 2-3 batches through it before I figured it out.

 

[cyanmonkey]

I recently had issues too. Had a stout I expected to finish at 1.020, get to 1.010. An IPA I planned for 1.010 got to 1.004.

Turned out my thermometer was reading 8 degrees high. If I thought I was mashing at 150, I was really at 142.

Glad I only got 2-3 batches through it before I figured it out.

Hmm...I HAVE noticed my thermometer reads two degrees higher than what my temp strip says on my fermentor. That might make some sense why, now.

 

[nhindian]

Hmm...I HAVE noticed my thermometer reads two degrees higher than what my temp strip says on my fermentor. That might make some sense why, now.

Where are you taking the temperature from with you thermometer? Against the fermentor or inside it? If inside, reading higher isn't surprising.

 

[cyanmonkey]

Where are you taking the temperature from with you thermometer? Against the fermentor or inside it? If inside, reading higher isn't surprising.

Strips on the outside and I probed inside.

I just bought ingredients for a gallon of dark mild. We'll see how it turns out.

 

[ImNoExpert]

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

[beerkench]

This really sounds like wild yeast. Wild yeast are not as choosy about what they eat so are really good at drying out beer and stripping away flavour. I had the same trouble once and was making great looking clear beer that had a tonic taste to it.


Sent from hell
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[DrunkleJon]

Question, do you bottle or keg?

Have you cleaned out the valve in your bottling bucket? Valve in BK? CFC or Plate chiller maybe (debris stuck in there)?

 

[PGEduardo]

Can you describe the bitterness a little more detailed? Do you taste it immediately out of the fermenter, in the wort, or after carbing?

If you keg, make sure your temp/pressure is within range. I was carbonating at 14 psi and 33F and had a harsh bitterness that turned out to be carbonic acid. Backed off to 12psi and 40F and all's well...

 

[kombat]

Do you have an air filter on your oxygen tank?

Wait ... what?

Why would you need an air filter on an O2 tank? It's pure O2, isn't it? I understand needing one if you're using, say, and aquarium aerator, or something that's taking air from the room and forcing it into the wort, but a pure oxygen tank oxygenation system shouldn't need one, does it? I've never used one, and I've oxygenated several batches with pure oxygen and an oxygenation stone, without any infections (yet - knock on wood).