All grain pilsner failure

[Gibby_man]

I've tried twice now to make a 5g batch using 100% pilsner malt. Each time I get a stuck mash and scorched kettle. I noticed that there is this weird gel like fluid that i havent seen before.

The first time I didn't stir well enough and had some dough balls and thought that was a cause for my stuck mash. I added rice hulls in to try and save it. My robobrew went into e3 error for the boil so I drained cleaned, and tried again.

Checked my mill and it was adjusted the same as every other brew I've completed. Mashed in again at 65*C and after 5 mins or so, another stuck mash and scorched kettle after the kettle ran dry. Lost temp of mash and abandoned this batch as well oit of frustration. Again this goo/gel material was found on the screens in my robobrew.

I'm stiring to try and unstick the mash but this is just disturbing the grain bed.

I tried using rice hulls on my first batch, but I added them in after I was stuck. I then ran out...

Both attempts were super cloudy.

I have some questions,
What is scorching on the bottom, is it the wort, grain bits that got through, or this weird gel substance?

Is pilsner malt better with a larger crush? I've mostly used 2 row prior to this.

 

[Sammy86]

I've tried twice now to make a 5g batch using 100% pilsner malt. Each time I get a stuck mash and scorched kettle. I noticed that there is this weird gel like fluid that i havent seen before.

The first time I didn't stir well enough and had some dough balls and thought that was a cause for my stuck mash. I added rice hulls in to try and save it. My robobrew went into e3 error for the boil so I drained cleaned, and tried again.

Checked my mill and it was adjusted the same as every other brew I've completed. Mashed in again at 65*C and after 5 mins or so, another stuck mash and scorched kettle after the kettle ran dry. Lost temp of mash and abandoned this batch as well oit of frustration. Again this goo/gel material was found on the screens in my robobrew.

I'm stiring to try and unstick the mash but this is just disturbing the grain bed.

I tried using rice hulls on my first batch, but I added them in after I was stuck. I then ran out...

Both attempts were super cloudy.

I have some questions,
What is scorching on the bottom, is it the wort, grain bits that got through, or this weird gel substance?

Is pilsner malt better with a larger crush? I've mostly used 2 row prior to this.

You have alot going on here!

First, lets put to rest that Pilsner malt is like any other base malt, it doesn't need anything special. What is your gap set to on your grain mill?

I own a Brewzilla 65 L so before I made the switch to a brew bag instead of the malt pipe I would add a 1/3 of the grain the a handful of rice hulls, another 1/3 then rice hulls and again after the end so it would be mixed in nicely.

As far as your questions go:

What is scorching is probably wort with some grain particles. You have to let the grain rest for 5-10 minutes before starting to recirculate so it can settle at create the bed that the wort will flow through. It sounds like your grain is too compacted and not getting enough wort through causing the little bit at the bottom to get too hot thus scorching.

What is the thickness of your mash i.e qts/pound or I guess liters/kg. Since moving to the Brewzilla I've gone with a thinner mash 2 qts/pound of grain and haven't had any issues with using the pump to recirculate.

 

[Gibby_man]

You have alot going on here!

I sure do! Thanks for taking the time.

What is scorching is probably wort with some grain particles. You have to let the grain rest for 5-10 minutes before starting to recirculate so it can settle at create the bed that the wort will flow through. It sounds like your grain is too compacted and not getting enough wort through causing the little bit at the bottom to get too hot thus scorching.

I am definitely not doing this. As with my previous brews, I turn circulation on immediately. I will do this from now on. And also will get some more rice hulls.

What is the thickness of your mash i.e qts/pound or I guess liters/kg. Since moving to the Brewzilla I've gone with a thinner mash 2 qts/pound of grain and haven't had any issues with using the pump to recirculate

I'm using brewfather and following the recipes. This brew was 20L water with 3.75 kg grain (5.3 to 1 ratio). It's actually the smallest ratio for me as of yet.

Thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Bassman2003]

I would look at your dough in temperature relative to the temperature of your strike water. In my experience, running electric heating with wort under gelatinization temps results in scorching. Maybe your 149F dough in is actually resulting in a lower initial mash temp which causes the element to raise the mash up resulting in scorching with all of the particle are floating around.

The approach of waiting 10 minutes before doing anything is solid as well. Basically, if you see cloudy wort with a lot of grain particles, you have a higher risk of scorching on electric elements. So doughing in a bit higher to start the mash at or above 149F might solve the problem. You can then let the temperature coast down to reach your target. Can you recirculate without running the element? My Anvil Foundry instructions say to dough in and let sit for 10 minutes before running anything. I think for these coffee urn brew machines, that is good advice.

When I brew hefeweizen on the Foundry I step infuse with hot water and do not turn the element on until I get into the high 140's F

 

[bruce_the_loon]

Are you doing any phosphoric acid dosing? There was a thread last year where someone had a problem that showed a gel-like mess that turned out to be a bottle of 10% phosphoric acid was in fact a much higher concentration and caused the gelling problem.

 

[dwhite60]

Could the gel substance be coagulated protein?

Have you tried, can you do, a protein rest?