All Grain/Mash Tun questions

[JWS]

I've been brewing a few months and caught the itch to go all grain eventually. I AM a DYIer so I love to build my own tools. I have searched about doing Mash Tun vs BIAB. I currently have been doing extract kits from NB and Midwest, liked how they came out, but want that extra kick, you know what I mean. But I have ran into some questions that I have found an overload of information but not really what I am looking for and I've always thought the best idea is to just ask instead of screwing things up in the future.

1) I have been using a 7.5 gallon SS turkey frying pot to do all my boils in. Do you think this is big enough to do all grain boils in? Keep in mind that I will always do 5 gallon batchs. Don't need to do anything bigger.

2) I have search through many posts about MLTs and understand that the couple of ways of doing it is letting it mash then slowly pulling the wort out and pouring it back over grains to filter out more times until it clears, and the other way is slowly adding your sparge water at the same flow as your strike water is emptying. I have found pictures of systems that have two coolers converted. The one up top flows into the second one which then flows into the boiling pot. My question is is this setup for the second type of filtering that slowly adds the sparge water at the same slow rate as the strike water leaving or why the double cooler setup.

I have many more things I want to build and get ready, but I've always been the type of person to know all my facts before diving into things so any information will help.

Thanks

 

[Boru]

I've been doing all grain BIAB with an 8 gallon pot and that's always allowed me to do a full boil for a 5 gallon batch.

That being said given the limits of my system if my OG hits 1.075 or above I've had to use extracts to get it higher (did a really great Imperial Stout where I had to use about 5 lbs of extract syrup to get the OG at 1.095 where I wanted it)

So honestly I think 7.5 shoudl work for a full boil but might cut it close. Start with a lower gravity (pale ale or british bitter) and start workign up from there and see how you feel about that.

Regarding your second question I can't help that much as I still do BIAB. I'll eventually get a mash tun but we're in a tiny 1 bedroom apartment and SWMBO has said no equipment till we move to a bigger place (which will be this summer. Joy, I'll finally get me a mashtun.)

 

[BendBrewer]

2) I have search through many posts about MLTs and understand that the couple of ways of doing it is letting it mash then slowly pulling the wort out and pouring it back over grains to filter out more times until it clears, and the other way is slowly adding your sparge water at the same flow as your strike water is emptying. I have found pictures of systems that have two coolers converted. The one up top flows into the second one which then flows into the boiling pot. My question is is this setup for the second type of filtering that slowly adds the sparge water at the same slow rate as the strike water leaving or why the double cooler setup.

You are describing 2 different steps in the process, not alternative ways to do it.

The pulling the wort off and pouring it back over the grain bed to filter is call vorlaufing. After performing this step, one then drains the wort into the kettle then you sparge.

The sparging technique you described is called Fly Sparging and you start this as you are draining your mash. Another way to do it is Batch Sparge where you drain the wort completely after vorlaufing and fill the MLT again with the saprge water, stir and drain after vorlaufing again.

 

[srr013]

In regards to #2

Yes. This setup allows water to slowly flow from the hot liquor tank (HLT) to the mash tun. This rinses the grain on the way to the boil pot, where it is collected and boiled.

I made a mash tun last year and it has been working great for me. I do not have an HLT, instead I drain my wort from my mash tun to about the level of the grain, and add the liquor (usually around boiling temp) to the tun to get up to 170* for sparging. I let that sit for a bit, give it a stir, let it sit, drain and boil

I use a 5 gallon pot, and have had no trouble. I don't often do a 5g boil because of my set up, instead I add water at the end to get to ~5.25g and call it a day.

 

[Krrazy]

You'll really enjoy going AG and you have some good questions.

For your first one, I think you'll be close! You should measure your evaporation rate on your setup (how much water you loose during an hour of boiling). The amount of liquid you will boil off will help to determine what volume you need to start with to get your desired post-boil volume. It's really dry here in AZ so I usually get about a 25-30% loss over the hour. I need to start with about 7 gallons to make sure I'll get five into the carboy. Half a gallon of space from a boilover would make me nervous but it could probably be done with careful flame management and spritzing with a water bottle.

Regarding the cooler setup you saw...the top cooler is typically called the HLT (hot liquor tank) and is used to contain water at sparge temperature so you have a large quantity available when you need it. It may also be used with some other components for fly sparging. I believe the two methods you're describing are batch sparging and fly sparging (batch = mash, drain, add more water, stir, wait, drain until you hit your preboil volume; fly is the second method you describe where you slowly and continuously add new water while you're draining the wort). The HLT could be used for either technique (batch or fly) but I don't believe it's required for either. I batch sparge and in my process I calculate how much additional water I need to get to my preboil volume after mashout (draining the wort the first time from the mash) and then heat that in another kettle (since my boil kettle now has wort in it from the first runnings) and pout that in, stir, wait, and then drain to get my preboil volume.

There are plenty of ways to do things that you can read about, so find that best that works for you and your system! I'm sure some others will reply to this and provide their input too.

Good Luck!

 

[JWS]

You are describing 2 different steps in the process, not alternative ways to do it.

The pulling the wort off and pouring it back over the grain bed to filter is call vorlaufing. After performing this step, one then drains the wort into the kettle then you sparge.

The sparging technique you described is called Fly Sparging and you start this as you are draining your mash. Another way to do it is Batch Sparge where you drain the wort completely after vorlaufing and fill the MLT again with the saprge water, stir and drain after vorlaufing again.

I can't believe I have missed those steps in reading. So let me get this straight for a complete n00b. First you mash at the temp and length of recipe, then pull some of the wort out and pour it back over the grains (im guessing to do this a couple of times to filter), then pull the entire wort out of the MLT, add water to get to your sparge amount, heat to get to your temp, then pour it all back over the grains, mix, let settle, then pull the entire wort off and begin boil?

Forget the question of the 7 gallon pot. A friend has decided she wants to start so I sold her my 7 gallon pot and I'm going to buy a 15 gallon pot....problem solved.

 

[Chrisl77]

When i batch sparge i put my heated mash water in the cooler first then while stirring i gradually pour in my grains. This helps ensure that i dont get any dry pockets in the grains. I also let my sparge water sit for 10 minutes after mixing it before i vorlaufing.

 

[petep1980]

1) I have been using a 7.5 gallon SS turkey frying pot to do all my boils in. Do you think this is big enough to do all grain boils in? Keep in mind that I will always do 5 gallon batchs. Don't need to do anything bigger.

You CAN do it. I wouldn't recommend it. I did a couple 5-gallon boils in that size and I didn't enjoy it.

 

[BendBrewer]

I can't believe I have missed those steps in reading. So let me get this straight for a complete n00b. First you mash at the temp and length of recipe, then pull some of the wort out and pour it back over the grains (im guessing to do this a couple of times to filter), then pull the entire wort out of the MLT, add water to get to your sparge amount, heat to get to your temp, then pour it all back over the grains, mix, let settle, then pull the entire wort off and begin boil?

Forget the question of the 7 gallon pot. A friend has decided she wants to start so I sold her my 7 gallon pot and I'm going to buy a 15 gallon pot....problem solved.

Almost. I'll give you 90%. Give this a read starting on this page. Go back a few chapters if you want to be bored with all the science behind it if you want, but reading from here forward will give you the answers that you seek. Almost all of us do the Single Infusion Method and you should too.

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter16-1.html

You can skip the Multi Step pages and don't worry about the math at this point as there are calculators that will do all of that for you on line.

Lautering:

http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter17.html

 

[brewyourown4life]

i would recomend a 10 gal boil kettle, 7.5 gal will work but be very carefull of a boil over. i have a 10 gal and boil 7-7.5 gal and did my first all grain last sunday and it seemed that there was a lot more protein in the wort when it came to a full boil then there was in my extract batches

 

[JWS]

So in batch sparging, once you pull the first wort off you pour in the sparge water let it sit in the mash tun another 60 minutes then pull the off, but once you pull both sets off wont you have a ton of wort? With some recipes I look at, both the sparge and the strike water totals let's say 10 gallons. I know that a lot will be pulled in the grain and absorbed but estimating since I don't have a calculator or the figures of it, you would come out with say 7 gallons, do you just boil that down until you get the right amount for a 5 gallons batch? I know some will boil off once you add hops and do the regular boil, but wouldn't you have a lot of wort after adding bot strike and sparge and pulling off?

 

[Chrisl77]

You dont sparge for 60 minutes i usually let it go for 10 minutes. The boil off volume depends on your boil kettle. In a 60 minute boil my 10 gal kettle usually looses 1.5 to 2 gallons of wort. Depending on how much surface area your kettle has you may boil off more or less then me. If you want measure 5 gallons of water and boil it for 60 minutes. After the 60 minutes re measure the water and see how much you boiled off.

 

[JuanMoore]

So in batch sparging, once you pull the first wort off you pour in the sparge water let it sit in the mash tun another 60 minutes then pull the....?

The sparge water only sits for 10 min or less, not another hour.

I know that a lot will be pulled in the grain and absorbed but estimating since I don't have a calculator or the figures of it

Apparent grain absorbtion rates vary depending on crush, grain bill, and MLT deadspace, but you can safely figure about 0.5 quarts per pound of grain. For a 16# grain bill that comes out to about 2 gal.

do you just boil that down until you get the right amount for a 5 gallons batch? I know some will boil off once you add hops and do the regular boil, but wouldn't you have a lot of wort after adding bot strike and sparge and pulling off?

You should only sparge to collect enough wort to reach your pre-boil volume (with a few rare exceptions). 7 gal is a pretty common pre-boil volume to end up with 5 gal of beer since you will lose some to boil-off, trub, dead space in the kettle and MLT, transferring losses, the yeast cake in the fermenter, etc. If you've done extract brews already this should be pretty familiar. Even without grain absorbtion I'm sure you've used significantly more than 5 gal of water to end up with 5 gal of beer in the keg or bottles.

I highly suggest reading BobbyM's all grain primer, and/or the chapter of "How to Brew" mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I preheat my mash tun with 160F water for 10-20 minutes and then dump it out. I use a mash thickness of 1.25 qts. per lb. of grain to calculate my strike water volume. I then use a calculator and enter the grain temperature to find out how hot the strike water has to be to set the grain bed to say 155F.

I pour in 1/2 the strike water and mix in some grains then pour in the other 1/2 and the rest of the grains stirring all the while. I also keep a small amount of cold water and some 170F water handy in case I want to raise or lower the grain bed a degree or two.

Once I've convinced there are no dry pockets, hot spots or channels in the grain bed I screw the top on put some towels over it and let it mash for an hour.

I then pour 168F water in the top of the tun while lautering the wort into my boil pot, being very careful not to disturb the grain bed while pouring. I keep about an inch or two of water covering the grain bed during the entire 30 minute lauter and fill the boil pot with my pre-boil volume. Doing all grain this way is really pretty easy once you get your process down and it's a lot of fun.

 

[CTownBrewer]

I used a 7.5 gallon SS pot for my first 5 gallon AG brew a few weeks ago. Pre-boil volume was 6.5 gallons...5.5 made it into the fermenter. Next time, I'm going to use a pre-boil volume of just over 6 gallons since I only boil off 1 gal/hr.

I suggest you have a bottle of Fermcap-S on hand. I used about a drop per gallon & didn't come close to boiling over.