All-grain cloudier than partial mash or extract

[tiredofbuyingbeer]

I've noticed that the two all-grain recipes I've done are a bit cloudier than the partial mash and extract beers I've brewed. Not sure if there's a correlation or not, but if there is, any reason for that? I wonder if there's something in my AG process that's wrong.

I always use whirfloc in the last few minutes of a boil and biofine clear a few days before bottling. I usually primary for three weeks.

For the all grain beers, I mash at 148-152 for 45-90 minutes, depending on the recipe, and I sparge at 165-170. I squeeze the bag as much as possible, and my efficiency is usually pretty good.

The only adjunct I've used in the AG beers in question has been sugar in an English Bitter. No cereals or anything.

One thing that's incidentally changed along with going all-grain has been that I've been much better about not sucking up trub from the fermenter into the bottling bucket. I would think that would make my beer less cloudy, but it's the only other variable that has changed that I can think of.

Oh yeah, one more thing that could be it: in going all-grain, I've started doing a full boil. I wonder if I'm not chilling the wort fast enough? I have a wort chiller, and it's usually sub-100F in about 20 minutes.

 

[tiredofbuyingbeer]

Additional details I forgot to add: I'm doing BIAB. Also, the way in which the beer is cloudy isn't that it's opaque or anything. It's just... murky. I can see my fingers on the other side of the glass, but it's hazy.

 

[Yooper]

Do you bring it up to a hard rolling boil, and get a nice hot break? It sounds like you're not getting a hot break from the description.

I wrote this article a long time ago, but the pictures of the hot break and description are still timely and could help with determining the cause of the haze: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/clear-wort-clear-beer.html

 

[VladOfTrub]

The grain bed picks up gunk and when the grain is compressed some of the gunk may transfer into the extract through the mesh. Crushing the starch to flour can cause issues. Complex starch is heat resistant. The temperatures that are used during single infusion mashing or during step mashing are not high enough to rupture the starch and since the starch is left intact there is no need for a dextrinization rest to be used. Complex starch is responsible for body after enzymes release sugar from it. The types of sugar released are called limit dextrin. The starch when crushed to dust and remaining untouched by enzymes will transfer down stream causing an issue called starch carry over which creates starch haze. When the grain bag was compressed any protein mud that was captured in the grain bed was flushed into the extract as well. Protein mud is evil, it reduces stability and shelf life of the final product.
The syrup is different. It is a by-product of a testing procedure performed on malt. At one time it was known as Bakers Malt Extract.
Skim off the hot break as it forms and when it ceases to form add bittering hops. Less hops will be needed. Skim off the second break, as well.
To lessen starch carry over try not to crush the starch into flour and during sparge try to keep the mash from rising above 168F. Boiling some of the mash will cause amylo-pectin to enter into solution. The boiling mash can be used to step up the temperature of the main mash to a range where enzymes will release limit dextrin from the amylo-pectin, creating body. You bought the starch why not use it for improving the beer? Starch carry over is easy to cure. What eventually happens when all of the ducks line up is that a ball of jell will form in the liquid and it becomes evident during the aging cycle.
Protein haze is harder to cure and to cure it requires the addition of enzymes or by using higher grade malt and a more complex brewing procedure. Boiling the mash helps to reduce protein gum and it reduces hot break in the wort boiler. When mash is boiled protein mud settles on top of the grain bed where it is captured. In other brewing methods that do not require mash to be boiled the protein does not settle and it is transferred down stream.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Are you cold conditioning your beer? How are you packaging, keg or bottle?

Cold storage will help to drop the beer clear.

 

[StewMakesBrew]

Tons of variables here. Here's what I'd look at:

BIAB - my experience with BIAB (which was short) is that the squeezing of the bag and all results in things coming out that don't seem to come out using a lauter tun and fly or batch sparging. So there's that.

Boiling - as someone above said, a hard, tossing boil is the key to cooking off the proteins and getting them ready to precipitate

Wort Cooling - try whirlpooling your beer as you're running your wort cooler (presume immersion chiller, right?) - the way I do it is with a drill-end paint stirrer - put your cooler in, and when your burner is off and cooling water is running, put it down in the center of the chiller and spin it up - run that for about a minute and then quickly remove it. You'll find that the whirlpool will last for several minutes, and that motion in the liquid will make your wort cool MUCH faster. Also cool it deeper - I take mine down in to the mid to low 70s if the input water is cold enough.

Cold break - after you keg or bottle your beer, store it in the fridge - the cold will help precipitate the yeast and proteins.

Time - all beer gets progressively clearer over time.

So, all of the above.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Water problem? What is the source of your water and mineral content? Are you treating your water to manage mash pH? Water that is too far outside the 5.0-5.6 pH range can lead to incomplete starch conversion during the mash, which will result in murky beer that never clears.

All-grain brewing is not that difficult, even for someone who's never brewed before. However, unlike with extract brewing, the quality and mineral profile of the water must be managed for good results.