All grain brewing

[jambop]

Hi
I am not totally new to brewing but its been a while Anyway I want to get back into it to make beer like I used to get back home in the UK. I live in France nice country ...meh beer. I have a question about grain brewing. I got rid of all my brewing gear when I moved to France but can buy the crushed grain and hops easily enough but I do not have a very large vessel to boil the wort in 11L is my biggest. I do not want to spend money on a bigger one just now because I do not know if I will stick with it. So here is the question can I make my beer just a little bit higher gravity and dilute the boiled wort by adding boiled water to bring it back to the desired starting gravity? I would probably prefer to make 12.5L per brew that gives me sixteen swing top 75cl bottles which will probably last me three weeks. So if I get into a routine I could be brewing every two weeks.
The other alternative is to use two kettles to mash and boil as I also have an 8L pot and just combine the boiled wort do 8L in one and 5L in the other? all answers greatly appreciated.

 

[RM-MN]

Yes you can make a more concentrated wort and then dilute it. Liquid Malt Extract (LME) is simply wort that is concentrated after making it and a brewer then dilutes it with water to get the wort they want. If malt extract is available to you that is a viable way to get what you want too although at a slightly higher cost.

Note that making the more concentrated wort in all grain is going to get you a lower extraction efficiency so you will need more grain to make the wort than if you had a larger kettle and a normal concentration.

 

[jambop]

T

Yes you can make a more concentrated wort and then dilute it. Liquid Malt Extract (LME) is simply wort that is concentrated after making it and a brewer then dilutes it with water to get the wort they want. If malt extract is available to you that is a viable way to get what you want too although at a slightly higher cost.

Note that making the more concentrated wort in all grain is going to get you a lower extraction efficiency so you will need more grain to make the wort than if you had a larger kettle and a normal concentration.

Thanks for the advice. I will make a few brews first to see if I am going to stick with it. If I think I am in for a long spell of brewing I will probably end up buying one of those all in one brewing systems, although not too expensive, I saw a 40L Brewster Beacon unit for €370 which looks like good value for the novice.

 

[madscientist451]

Here in the US, you can get a cheap 16 quart (15L) pot for about $20. I know stuff is more pricey in Europe, but if you get one of those, and use it along with your existing 11L pot, you can brew a full size batch. I brew a lot of smaller batches and the 16 qt pot and a BIAB bag works just fine. Your existing 11L pot will work great for a dunk sparge.
My 2 cents: get some serving kegs and a used refrigerator for your finished beer before you spend 370Eu on a brewing system. You can always get the all in one system later.

 

[hotbeer]

Making smaller batches will help with much of the complications so much grain adds to brew day. I don't know what size kits or common there, but 5 gallon (19 litre) kits are common here. I've been doing 1 gallon (3.7 L) for quite a few batches now and am moving to 2 and 3 gallon ( 7.5 to 11 L) batches that can still be done simply enough in my kitchen without extra equipment adding to the costs.

If you can do math you can scale a recipe down. The hop schedules don't quite scale in a straight line, or so I've read, but they'll be close enough.

So what is a full size batch? Probably what ever size you wish to brew. And any between 1 litre to as much as you want.

 

[micraftbeer]

I have similar advice as above that the individual beer defines the "right size"batch for themselves. I think it's a great idea to see what you can do with existing gear before going bigger, which will take some amount of money and more time on brew day.

I would recommend trying just whatever size batch your existing kettle can do. Once that makes beer you like, scale it up and do the trick with brewing a higher gravity wort and putting it into a fermenter that has pre boiled (sanitized) water. See if the taste is the same and the process works for you.

On a side note of your brewing inspiration, I got into homebrewing to make beers like I had when we lived in England (just 2 years), because I couldn't find beer like that here in the States. I've found it very elusive to try to recreate that beer, but I brew so much other stuff I like now, that it doesn't matter I lost sight of my original goal... Best of luck to you!

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Once that makes beer you like, scale it up and do the trick with brewing a higher gravity wort and putting it into a fermenter that has pre boiled (sanitized) water.

Assuming two kettles and two heat sources, would there be an advantage to 1) diluting the concentrated wort after the mash, then 2) boiling the normal strength wort in two kettles?

 

[hotbeer]

Assuming two kettles and two heat sources, would there be an advantage to 1) diluting the concentrated wort after the mash, then 2) boiling the normal strength wort in two kettles?

Why would you dilute for two boil kettles? Just sparge the grain after mashing with the proper amount of water into anything that will hold the total quantity, then divide that up between the 2 or more kettles for boil. But that does complicate the division of sometimes small hop amounts and if the burners are different BTU or wattage on the stove then they'll boil at different times and which pot for which timer. But I guess you could do each boil one at a time and not have that confusing situation occur.

I don't see why it couldn't all be put in the same fermenter if that's desired. But using separate fermenters will maybe let you see any differences you do in the boil for each.

 

[madscientist451]

Assuming two kettles and two heat sources, would there be an advantage to 1) diluting the concentrated wort after the mash, then 2) boiling the normal strength wort in two kettles?

If you have 2 kettles and a BIAB bag, you would be better off using one kettle for the mash and the second kettle for a dunk sparge.
By "better off" I'm referring to better efficiency.

 

[Beermeister32]

If you have limited kettles, do a BIAB on your 11L and 8L kettles. You can do a cool dunk sparge in a 5 gallon bucket. Build the full size batch for a 5 gallon carboy if possible, you may be limited on your grain bill size, you will not have enough kettle capacity to mash big beers. Top off the carboy with pre-chilled water, close to freezing. You will have a full 5 gallon batch.

 

[jambop]

Thanks for all the replies very helpful and has made me think... I think I am going to keep it relatively simple. I am going to use the two kettles I have and use ,as has been suggested the larger of the two for dunk sparging. I can then make a 12L brew split between the two kettles giving me sixteen 75cl bottles of beer which should last me three weeks meaning I get into a brew every two weeks routine. I do not want to do less than that because I really don't want to have to brew every week.
I will splash out on a cheap malt crusher though because 5kg of milled malt runs me to €15 whereas I can buy a 25kg sac of the same malt for €32 ! It would pay for its self in no time?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

Once that makes beer you like, scale it up and do the trick with brewing a higher gravity wort and putting it into a fermenter that has pre boiled (sanitized) water.

Assuming two kettles and two heat sources, would there be an advantage to 1) diluting the concentrated wort after the mash, then 2) boiling the normal strength wort in two kettles?

Why would you dilute for two boil kettles?

The goal was to avoid a concentrated boil of the wort.