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#p3brews

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Last week I brewed my first all grain batch. 40 lbs of grain mostly 2 row. I had 30 gallons of water and ended up with 15 gal in fermentors.
There are 2 things i need to know.

1. What is this protein looking glub that formed in my wort and how do i avoid?
prot.jpg


2. How can i be more efficient and get a better ratio of water to wort to ferment?
 
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A lot of missing information, do you use recipe software (beer smith or similar)? Did you fly sparge or batch sparge or what? What temp was your mash? Did you crush your grain or did the lhbs crush it for you? What were your gravity reading? If you give some more detail we can help give you better answers.
 
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A lot of missing information, do you use recipe software (beer smith or similar)? Did you fly sparge or batch sparge or what? What temp was your mash? Did you crush your grain or did the lhbs crush it for you? What were your gravity reading? If you give some more detail we can help give you better answers.
Recipe builder used to rough in recipe, yes. (Brewers Friend)
Circulating batch sparge.
Mash temp was low, approx 142' and sparged with 170'.
Hand crushed grains in mill and tried to keep them from turning to flour.
OG reading was 1.043

Grain bill -
32 lb 2 row
4 lb munich
2 lb bisquit
2 lb carapils
 
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What size and gravity readings were expected? If you were aiming for 15 gal thats may too much water but also still really low efficiency. So where did the rest of your water go? I can only assume you had a lot of wort left in your mash tun?
 

Konadog

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1. What is this protein looking glub that formed in my wort and how do i avoid?
Looks like cold break, was this after you cooled your wort? If so, it's a good thing and you want this to happen. It also doesn't hurt anything if this makes it into your fermenter, it will all settle out in the end. Did you try to leave this (and a few gallons of wort) behind? If you did, that also might be why you ended up with so little in your fermenter in the end.
 

LarMoeCur

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How long did you mash for?

IMO 142 is way to low for a full mash. You are just at the gelatinizing temperature (142-149). A rest of 15-30 minutes at 142 is fine but at some point you have to get the mash hotter if you want it to covert. Starch molecules are insoluble in colder water. For the solids to dissolve and convert you have get them in a gelatinized state. Which is closer to 150F.

Now I have heard rumors that AB used to do a 2-3 hour mash at 142. And, they bumped up the the temperature later to complete the mash. They also used state of the art computer controlled steam mash tuns to hold 142 exactly and used mash rakes to agitate the mash.

Your entire mash time was just above the protein rest temp of 120-130. You most likely broke down all the proteins but didn't convert all the starches. That giant glob of goo is the proteins from the malt.

I'd say try the recipe again with a 30 minute rest at 142 and raise the temp to 152 for 30 minutes. I'll bet your efficiency improves.
 
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Not with that amount of water. Yes it will improve if he mashes at 150 to 153 but 30 gal of water for a 15gal batch does not add up. I am seeing a 44% efficiency and that is using 15gal in the fermenter, I estimated 17 gal preboil and a gallon of loss in the kettle. Depending what he was going for I think that is likely to much water.
 
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Looks like cold break, was this after you cooled your wort? If so, it's a good thing and you want this to happen. It also doesn't hurt anything if this makes it into your fermenter, it will all settle out in the end.
Did you try to leave this (and a few gallons of wort) behind? If you did, that also might be why you ended up with so little in your fermenter in the end.
in hind sight, i did leave a bunch of this, what i thought might be messed up, wort in the mash tun. after cooling, some of it still existed and has mostly settled in 3 carboys 9 days later. mahalo
 
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#p3brews

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Not with that amount of water. Yes it will improve if he mashes at 150 to 153 but 30 gal of water for a 15gal batch does not add up. I am seeing a 44% efficiency and that is using 15gal in the fermenter, I estimated 17 gal preboil and a gallon of loss in the kettle. Depending what he was going for I think that is likely to much water.
Trying to remember exact numbers but on Brewers Friend I had calculated roughly 5.2 ABV from the recipe and i think i calculated 26 gallons of water. on brew day i added 2 lbs of 2 row and 4 gallons of water. thought more would boil off.
Looking forward to try #2.

Thank you to everyone's insight and shared experience. It is much appreciated. Mahalo.
 
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How long did you mash for?

IMO 142 is way to low for a full mash. You are just at the gelatinizing temperature (142-149). A rest of 15-30 minutes at 142 is fine but at some point you have to get the mash hotter if you want it to covert. Starch molecules are insoluble in colder water. For the solids to dissolve and convert you have get them in a gelatinized state. Which is closer to 150F.

Now I have heard rumors that AB used to do a 2-3 hour mash at 142. And, they bumped up the the temperature later to complete the mash. They also used state of the art computer controlled steam mash tuns to hold 142 exactly and used mash rakes to agitate the mash.

Your entire mash time was just above the protein rest temp of 120-130. You most likely broke down all the proteins but didn't convert all the starches. That giant glob of goo is the proteins from the malt.

I'd say try the recipe again with a 30 minute rest at 142 and raise the temp to 152 for 30 minutes. I'll bet your efficiency improves.
i'm certainly no genius but i did get an A in science in 9th grade with the hardest teacher. i'm guessing these many newbie mistakes i made are what i did and under tempted my grains and then over watered. if it was protein, i thought it would boil out but only some did.
i'm happy to get what i can from this and look forward to try #2. mahalo
 
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Dang, that's a heck of a boil off rate!
More of a 1st time inexperienced brewer on a 1 BBL system with not a complete idea of what i was doing situation. Science comedy.
 
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@#p3brews Just a couple tips to add, Ill share my process and equipment, personally I batch sparge but thats not big deal. I do 15gal final batches on a 30gal spike 3 vessel system. With hoppy beers I am for 17.5 gal in the fermenter, for regular ales I aim for 16 gal. This is to make up for losses so I can fill 3 5al corny kegs each time. One recent batch had 38lbs of grain and the total water used was 24ish gal and I typically start with 22gal in the boil kettle to account for boil off, trub loss, and shrinkage from chilling. My mash recirculates for 60 minutes at 150f as a typical target and typically doesn't fluctuate much on the spike system. Then I fly sparge at 170f, this process takes about an hour or so and I typically see an efficiency of 75%-80% depending on the beer, bigger beers get less efficient. As for grain crush you want to make sure your mill is set to the right gap. There are different gaps for each type of grain and this has improved my efficiency greatly. Some typical numbers here are .032 for most barley and .026 for wheat malts. I use beer smith to design my recipes, it has a lot of nice features and if... if you enter your equipment accurately it will get you real close on all your numbers for water volume and temperatures and gravity. You took a huge jump going to 1bbl right off the bat, congratulations on that alone. Getting a system dialed is not an easy task so stick to it and you'll be good in no time. I have had beer from local guys that when they first opened it was not great and a couple months later tried them again and wow, big improvement. Everyone has there own way of doing things so you will come up with your own process along the way, focus on grain crush, mash temp and time, and take your time sparging. Get your water to grain ratio where it needs to be and you should have a decent next brew day.

Cheers!
 
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Congrats on the new system. Great advice on how to dial it in. I would also emphasize in addition to using a brewing program like BeerSmith or Brewersfriend, to get a brewing notebook to thoroughly document your brewday. I usually printout a checklist of the various steps so that I don’t overlook anything. The brewing programs provide a solid game plan for brew day but your brewing notebook is where the rubber meets the road. I’ve been homebrewing for 6+ years and still manage to get some curve balls that happen on brew day. Documenting exactly how times, temps, pHs, or gravities didn’t quite go according to plan will help you make adjustments for the next brew day and dial in your consistency once you arrive at a recipe that works for you. There are tons of resources online and in the forums but one book I wish I had years ago when I was making overly hopped IPAs was Scott Janish’s book, The New IPA. It did only come out recently but it’s definitely changed how I approach hot side and cold side hop additions.
 

hotbeer

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Did you add any pelletized hops at the end of your boil and then rapidly cooled it? I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at in your picture or even if the colors are true.

When I added pelletized hops to my ferment yesterday, it looked sort of like that for a while after.
 
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Wanting a dry or malty end result? This is controlled by the mash temp.
Check mash liquid to malt ratio.
Check malt crush.
Check mash temp. Was it steady the whole mash time?
Seeking a maltier end.
I'm going with 1.5 or 1.75 to start
Crush may have been a bit too crushed but barely if at all.
Tried circulating the mash about 153' but i think it end up being
closer to like 142. I caught it a bit late. In hindsight i should have
just raised temp and keep circulating but i got stuck in time and
went ahead and sparged at end of hour.
Anyways, OG was 1.043 and FG today was 1.010 for about 4.4 ABV.
I put 5 gallons in a corny today.
They aren't hoppy so I'm guessing they will be for micheladas.
Got another 10 gallons to send to cornys tomorrow.
One will be a mango and the other I'm not sure yet.
 
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#p3brews

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@#p3brews Just a couple tips to add, Ill share my process and equipment, personally I batch sparge but thats not big deal. I do 15gal final batches on a 30gal spike 3 vessel system. With hoppy beers I am for 17.5 gal in the fermenter, for regular ales I aim for 16 gal. This is to make up for losses so I can fill 3 5al corny kegs each time. One recent batch had 38lbs of grain and the total water used was 24ish gal and I typically start with 22gal in the boil kettle to account for boil off, trub loss, and shrinkage from chilling. My mash recirculates for 60 minutes at 150f as a typical target and typically doesn't fluctuate much on the spike system. Then I fly sparge at 170f, this process takes about an hour or so and I typically see an efficiency of 75%-80% depending on the beer, bigger beers get less efficient. As for grain crush you want to make sure your mill is set to the right gap. There are different gaps for each type of grain and this has improved my efficiency greatly. Some typical numbers here are .032 for most barley and .026 for wheat malts. I use beer smith to design my recipes, it has a lot of nice features and if... if you enter your equipment accurately it will get you real close on all your numbers for water volume and temperatures and gravity. You took a huge jump going to 1bbl right off the bat, congratulations on that alone. Getting a system dialed is not an easy task so stick to it and you'll be good in no time. I have had beer from local guys that when they first opened it was not great and a couple months later tried them again and wow, big improvement. Everyone has there own way of doing things so you will come up with your own process along the way, focus on grain crush, mash temp and time, and take your time sparging. Get your water to grain ratio where it needs to be and you should have a decent next brew day.

Cheers!
Thank you for your words of encouragement and explanation. Both are appreciated.
Pretty sure the sparge wasn't done right.
Anyways, OG was 1.043 and FG today was 1.010 for about 4.4 ABV.
I put 5 gallons in a corny today.
They aren't hoppy so I'm guessing those will be for micheladas.
Got another 10 gallons to send to cornys tomorrow.
One will be a mango and the other I'm not sure yet.
Looking forward to attempt number two next thursday.
 
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Did you add any pelletized hops at the end of your boil and then rapidly cooled it? I'm having a hard time telling what I'm looking at in your picture or even if the colors are true.

When I added pelletized hops to my ferment yesterday, it looked sort of like that for a while after.
I did but this glub happened before the hop additions. i'm pretty sure these are proteins that seeped out and never got the right temps and then got quickly heated.
Some broke down into smaller chunks in the boil, i abandoned some and the rest settled in the carboys.
 
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Anyways, OG was 1.043 and FG today was 1.010 for about 4.4 ABV.
I put this 5 gallons in a corny keg today and carbed.
carboy 1.jpg

They aren't hoppy so I'm guessing they will be for micheladas.
Got another 10 gallons to send to cornys tomorrow.
One will be a mango and the other I'm not sure yet.
 
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