All corn brew?

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DaveyG1987

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Has anybody ever tried an all corn mash cream ale? I’ve been diagnosed with Celiac disease and have been curious to try malting my own corn and doing a brew with just straight corn and bakers yeast. No hops. Naturally carbonate, then pasteurize. Ever been done before? How’d it taste?
 
I’ve read up a bit on chicha. Seems easy enough, but malting the corn actually looks pretty dang easy if you watch the video bearded and bored put out. Would be pretty much the same end result I think, just without the saliva haha.
 
i think the problem with corn malt is the geletinization(SP?) temp of the starch?i'd say to do a corn mash, boil cracked corn for a while until it looks gel'd, then let cool to 150f, add alpha amylase, sparge, cool, then add gluco to the fermenter.....that was my tech for making rice beer (but i dry hopped, out of fear of sour beer)
 
I have made beer with masa (corn flour) as my base malt ( I add enzymes). The beer did have a few pounds of rice malt in it as well. It was highly hopped with mosaic hops.

It was intresting, and totally drinkable; but not entirely beer like.
 
Legume said:
I have made beer with masa (corn flour) as my base malt ( I add enzymes). The beer did have a few pounds of rice malt in it as well. It was highly hopped with mosaic hops.

It was intresting, and totally drinkable; but not entirely beer like.
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sparge? gel temp?
 
Interesting... thanks for the input. I may do some more reading on how they do corn mash for corn based whiskey, and just skip the distillation step. Do the corn mash in a bag, for easy straining. I’m thinking I’ll aim for a slightly sweet, naturally carbonated, 6-7.5% abv
 
Not all whiskey use barley I think. If I remember correctly JD (ew) uses just malted corn with a sour mash starter. Some use Rye (which would also contain gluten) also... more than one way to skin a cat.
 
DaveyG1987 said:
Has anybody ever tried an all corn mash cream ale? I’ve been diagnosed with Celiac disease and have been curious to try malting my own corn and doing a brew with just straight corn and bakers yeast. No hops. Naturally carbonate, then pasteurize. Ever been done before? How’d it taste?
Click to expand...
tastes just like moonshine before distilling. thats all it is bro- corn,(sugar), water and bakers yeast.
I buy cracked corn (cheapest is at the feed store -like $8/50lb bag, Tractor Supply, Farm & Fleet,etc) and run it through my mill at the largest setting ,like 0.060
3-4 inches of that in 5 gallon bucket...approximately 6 lbs. add the same weight in sugar and then half a bucket of boiling water. stir until the sugar is dissolved and allow to sit an hour with a lid on . It will be thick like porridge or oatmeal. add more water to the top ring on the bucket ,then stir again , allow to cool to 100 degrees then add your bakers yeast ( 2 packets) on top . Put on a lid and an airlock ,set in room temp (70-75*F). By day 6 it should be about done fermenting. strain through a pillowcase into the copper still...wait, thats the OTHER forum...lol.
 
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DaveyG1987 said:
Not all whiskey use barley I think. If I remember correctly JD (ew) uses just malted corn with a sour mash starter. Some use Rye (which would also contain gluten) also... more than one way to skin a cat.
Click to expand...
nope. JD uses 80% corn
12% barley
and 8% rye
once it is distilled the gluten is no longer an issue.
 
Soulshine2 said:
tastes just like moonshine before distilling. thats all it is bro- corn,(sugar), water and bakers yeast.
I buy cracked corn (cheapest is at the feed store -like $8/50lb bag, Tractor Supply, Farm & Fleet,etc) and run it through my mill at the largest setting ,like 0.060
3-4 inches of that in 5 gallon bucket...approximately 6 lbs. add the same weight in sugar and then half a bucket of boiling water. stir until the sugar is dissolved and allow to sit an hour with a lid on . It will be thick like porridge or oatmeal. add more water to the top ring on the bucket ,then stir again , allow to cool to 100 degrees then add your bakers yeast ( 2 packets) on top . Put on a lid and an airlock ,set in room temp (70-75*F). By day 6 it should be about done fermenting. strain through a pillowcase into the copper still...wait, thats the OTHER forum...lol.
Click to expand...

lol, but if you boil the corn, let cool to 150f add alpha amylase, then gluco at room temp to the fermenter.....you'd get more bang from the batch...
 
holy blast from the past! ;) i must be getting old! :)

i stopped reading at this in the first link:

"I also had heard that malted corn often was not heated to stop germination, as is the conventional practice when you malt barley."

sorry if i sound uniformed for it, but it's late....to malt barley you have dry it at 'cool' temps before kilning/heating it.......otherwise the enzymes will be to mobile and denature....


i'll try to remember to read more thoroughly tomorrow while i'm drinking coffee..ohh, hell, i read both the articles, what's the diastatic power of rye again? second one says they used 25% didn't it, so they boil the corn then mash it with rye malt.....


And i just got up from an afternoon nap! so i'm still groggy, and Welcome! :)
 
I'm mashing 15 lbs of malted corn right now. So far so good. I was worried about a stuck mash in my HERMS system, but it's like any other brew so far. I probably could have gone with only 1 lb of rice hulls. I'm using a Blichmann false bottom AND a BIAB bag out of paranoia.

Mash:
15 lbs Malted White Corn ground coarse
2 lbs Rice Hulls
6.25 gallons RO water
0.21g Salt
1.39g Calcium Chloride
1.70g MgSO4
2.16g Calcium Sulfate

Single Infusion @ 149 F

I'm 30 minutes in and only have 25 of the 70 points I was shooting for. I'll keep mashing and measuring along the way. Might have to mash longer than anticipated to make sure the starches are all pulled out of the grist and converted as much as possible.
 
An hour later and I'm only at 30 points. I'm starting to think I should have ground this more fine. There are large chunks of endosperm in the grist that are still fairly hard. I'm also wondering if there is some degree of channeling occurring around the edges of my bag and near the thermowell and diptube. I'll give it another stir and wait for a bit more.
 
I've been reading up on enzymes and the different things they do at different temps while waiting, but I'm fairly certain the crush killed my mash efficiency this time. I snagged some of the pieces of corn off the top of the mash and crushed them up in a spoon with a bit of the wort. The iodine test failed miserably. The starches are still locked inside the larger pieces of corn and the enzymes can't get at them in there.

It's 3 in the morning and I'm tired. I'm going to boil this and augment it with some DME before tossing it into a carboy then calling it quits. zzzzz

Final gravity reading of the mash pre-boil: 1.034.
 
look up denaturation temps, and gelenitization temps of starch and enzymes......it's when both explode in water, you want the starch to explode before the enzymes.....hard to do with corn.....
 
Gelatinization was the big unknown for me going into a 100% malted corn brew. I had a hard time finding much out there about weather or not malted corn still needed to be gelatinized prior to saccharification. I'm not convinced it does just yet. The starches available to the enzymes from the malted corn were converted.

Would a rest at a lower temp have helped to hydrolyze the starches and free them up a bit before moving up to mash temps?

I read/skimmed most of this: The Theory of Mashing - Home Brewing Wiki
 
Without gelatinization it will take close to forever for enzymes to fully convert. In the meantime they will have fully denatured and become inactive. Corn has a very high gelatinization temperature (between 80°C and 90°C) so that gelatinization cannot occur without the enzymes being irreversibly damaged. Without the use of thermostable enzymes you will have to accept a very low efficiency. The reason you did get some extract in the mash is actually twofold:

1 - some conversion happens during malting so that you will already have some sugars in the malt that only need to go into solution
2 - there are different forms of starch granules that have differing gelatinization temperatures, so that some gelatinization will occur even at lower than optimal temps, but will be very partial
 
Thanks @Vale71

What would a good plan be for a 100% malted corn brew? Maybe several steps of decoction? Or just cook it like a normal adjunct and add enzymes? (the second one breaks my heart a little)
 
I found an article on BYO about brewing with Corn: Brewing with Corn - Brew Your Own. They talk about how to prepare different types of corn product for mashing, but skip over malted corn. However, All the products have to be gelatinized if not already done so in their preparation for sale.
To make corn fermentable, the starch it contains must first be gelatinized by being cooked in water between 158–167 °F (62–75 °C) or higher for about 30 minutes. Since we want to be certain that gelatinization is complete, the simplest way to do this is to cook the corn addition in boiling water. After gelatinization is complete, the starch can then be converted to sugar by amylase enzymes in the mash. As you can see, some forms of corn require extra preparation for brewing and some can go right into the kettle as is.

In the case of corn sugar, starch gelatinization and conversion of starch to sugar has already been taken care of and the sugar can simply be added as corn sugar in powdered form or as syrup directly into the wort. Flaked maize is made by steaming and pressing (thus gelatinizing and drying) corn through hot rollers, and thus can be added to the barley malt mash where the enzymes that convert the starch in the barley malt will also convert the starch in the flaked maize. Corn grits or cornmeal must first be cooked in water until the starch is gelatinized before they can be added to the barley malt mash for conversion to sugar.
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I'm trying to figure this out for a couple reasons. One being that I have a friend who is sensitive to gluten and I want him to stop bitching about not being able to drink the beer I serve at my house. I realize the DME I used to bring up the OG of my failed attempt last night will perpetuate the bitching. I now have other plans for this batch and pitched a blend of Fermax and a bulk yeast to get it out of my fermentation chamber as fast as reasonably possible.
 
boilerbrad said:
What would a good plan be for a 100% malted corn brew?
Click to expand...


as far as i've seen what you do is....make your corn malt, but only use it like you would barley malt in a cereal mash.....so you'd gel most of the corn by boiling, then cool, and use the corn malt to convert it....never done it myself, but that's what i remember from reading about it....
 
boilerbrad said:
I'm trying to figure this out for a couple reasons. One being that I have a friend who is sensitive to gluten and I want him to stop bitching
Click to expand...


lol, oat malt works...i have malted and brewed 100% oat beer......works just like barley....but you really gotta tighten the mill up!
 
Thanks. I'll have to try both the oats and the cook method.

Side note, the failed corn batch has created two distinct layers in the primary. The top layer is very active, but the bottom layer not so much. I can't recall seeing this before.
 

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i think starch floats so could be unconverted starch......

an experiment would be to scoop it off....boil it see if it goes into solution, then add amylase and check the gravity.....or that's what i'd do...but i'm slow....
 
Soulshine2 said:
nope. JD uses 80% corn
12% barley
and 8% rye
once it is distilled the gluten is no longer an issue.
Click to expand...
By law, bourbon must be at least 51% corn, though as you stated most recipies are closer to 80-85%. Almost all of them have some percentage of barley, in the form of distillers malt. Some have a small percentage of rye for spiciness, others do not use rye and use wheat instead. Bourbon does not have to be made in Kentucky, though many of the best are due to the climate and water makeup. Bourbons are a blend of different casks unless labeled single cask. By law, bourbon must be aged in new, charred American oak barrels. Barrels cannot be re-used.

Bourbon has rules. All bourbon is whiskey, not all whiskey is bourbon.
  • Bourbon must be made of a grain mixture that is at least 51% corn.
  • Bourbon must be distilled to no more than 160 (U.S.) proof (80% alcohol by volume).
  • Bourbon must be aged in new, charred oak barrels.
  • Bourbon may not be introduced to the barrel at higher than 125 proof (62.5% alcohol by volume).
  • Bourbon which meets the above requirements and has been aged for a minimum of two years, may (but is not required to) be called Straight Bourbon.
  • Bourbon aged for a period less than four years must be labeled with the duration of its aging.
  • If an age is stated on the label, it must be the age of the youngest whiskey in the bottle.
  • Only whiskey produced in the United States can be called bourbon.
 

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