Airlock Activity after 2 Hrs ??

[RWB1]

I brewed my first AG batch yesterday.....a Guinness type stout.

Made a starter Friday with White Labs WLPP004. Got to pitch @ 10:30 pm last night.

Woke up about 1am to the sound of the airlock going crazy....almost nonstop.

Is this normal? The other batches I have done all started 12-36 hrs after pitch ...depending on the yeast I used. This is my first starter so I assume that has something to do with it.

I am happy with the outcome of my first AG batch...pre boil gravity was a point low but actually finished a bit higher than I expected. I have to commend all the AG brewers out there...its alot of work, more than I thought !!!

 

[amandabab]

2-4 hours is normal for me. I've never understood the 24-72 hours to start thing.

 

[freisste]

2-4 hours is normal for me. I've never understood the 24-72 hours to start thing.

24-72 is probably normal if you under pitch, pitch cool, pitch a slow-starting strain or I'm sure for some other reasons. I have only made a couple beers, but they have all started quickly (and I have been pretty well aware of my yeast situation).

If you have enough yeast and they are ready to eat, it isn't strange to start fast. That isn't to say a slow start means you did something wrong. Some strains are slow to start.

 

[mjdonnelly68]

I use the Mr. Malty calculator and do a starter for every batch. I have no problem cooling to pitching temp and do so every time.

All that being the case, I've never seen vigorous fermentation within 2 hours. It seems to me it would take longer than that just to build up enough pressure in the headspace to bring the airlock into play.

Maybe you are suffering from premature fermentation. Try thinking about baseball...

 

[RWB1]

LOL....never thought of that...I was pretty exited when I heard the gurgles....

 

[Gixxer]

I have had batches take off after an hour or so, or a day or so. On one occasion I had poured some wort in the starter vessel to "wake up" the yeast before I pitched. The starter vessel had a solid inch of foam after only an hour, and when I pitched, I had airlock activity in under 2 hours.

 

[BigFloyd]

What was your pitch temp?

 

[buzbey]

And og? if you pitched at a normal temp around 68 you probably made a little to big of a starter, you want about a 4 to 8 hour lag phase. But Its not abnormal to get activity that soon after pitching if you pitch to much. I made a really big starter one time and had activity after about 45 minutes! Over pitching is a little better than under pitching but still not good for your yeast

 

[Revvy]

Did you oxygenate?

Two words....Off Gassing.

You guys actually believe that within two hours of yeast pitching the yeast would have eaten enough sugar to have farted enough EXCESS co2 to actually be what's bubbling out the airlock?

 

[buzbey]

I think so I had activity after 45 minutes. But I did pitch probably 5 times as much yeast as I should have. Wouldn't oxygen being released from the wort happen sooner than two hours?

 

[Revvy]

I think so I had activity after 45 minutes. But I did pitch probably 5 times as much yeast as I should have. Wouldn't oxygen being released from the wort happen sooner than two hours?

Remember, if you've chilled your wort lower than ambient, it's going to warm up over a couple hours, and what happens to gas as it warms up?


It expands.

If folks remember that an airlock is a VENT and not a fermentation gauge, then it's much easier to grasp little things like the fact that we've dumped a volume of cool liquid into larger than that volume of air, in a container THEN added MORE air to it when we oxygenated it, THEN left it with a tiny little hole for all that gas to escape through (remember what happens when you put a thumb partially over the end of a garden hose?).....Wouldn't it then me more logical to think that perhaps the gas coming out isn't due to fermentation, but just AIR?

 

[buzbey]

You do have a good point there and it is most likely the cause. But couldn't there be other factors that would have this effect as well? such as over pitching by a lot or pitching at a warm temp. Isn't the danger of over pitching that the yeast skips the lag phase and goes straight to eating sugars? Causing death of cells among other things. Could this not result in air lock activity as soon as 2 hours? Pitching at a warm temp could also have this effect as the yeast at a warmer temp would be much more active.

 

[amandabab]

It takes an awful lot of outgassing to explain the 1" ID hose bubbling away after 2-4 hours.
I dry pitch fermentis at a good temp.

 

[CAustin919]

It takes an awful lot of outgassing to explain the 1" ID hose bubbling away after 2-4 hours.
I dry pitch fermentis at a good temp.

I agree.. I too use large diameter blow off and have had this happen before.

If it wasn't possible for yeast to act that fast.. we wouldn't be able to proof bread in an hour or two.

 

[RWB1]

I did oxygenate well, pitched a 1 liter starter into 5 g batch @ 72. OG was 1.050

White Labs says to keep the temp @ 70-75 until fermentation starts...

I have since moved it to a cooler spot about 68 degrees.

This is all new to me so I appreciate the feedback.

 

[buzbey]

So a fair size starter into a 1.050 wort, and a little warmer temp is probably the cause here. I don't make starters unless my gravity is gonna be above 1.060. You over pitched the yeast a little but its not much to worry about.

 

[Gixxer]

On the flip side of things RWB1 your avatar is bada$$! I dig it.

 

[RWB1]

On the flip side of things RWB1 your avatar is bada$$! I dig it.

ThankYou.

Still learning....like I said my first AG batch. Still a little confused about the whole process....just glad I hit my gravity my 1st time out. I have alot to learn and this a great forum to do so.

 

[CoalCracker]

I've had a batch take off in two hours. However that was pitched on top of a prior yeast cake. If I pitch new. It routinely takes 12-24 hours to start. That's with a 2L starter. I'm thinking your experiencing some off gassing as Revvy said.

 

[Yooper]

I did oxygenate well, pitched a 1 liter starter into 5 g batch @ 72. OG was 1.050

White Labs says to keep the temp @ 70-75 until fermentation starts...

I have since moved it to a cooler spot about 68 degrees.

This is all new to me so I appreciate the feedback.

The instructions on the vial are to compensate for underpitching, by using only one vial.

I'd highly recommend pitching under the desired fermentation temperature, and then let it rise. If you're using WLP004, you're too warm!

And remember that fermentation itself produces heat. I've seen a difference of 10 degrees between the ambient air temperature and the fermenting beer. so make sure you have the temperature on the fermenter monitored. they sell those aquarium type of stick-on thermometers so you can see at a glance the temperature of the beer.

Here's the info on that strain:
WLP004 Irish Ale Yeast
This is the yeast from one of the oldest stout producing breweries in the world. It produces a slight hint of diacetyl, balanced by a light fruitiness and slight dry crispness. Great for Irish ales, stouts, porters, browns, reds and a very interesting pale ale.
Attenuation: 69-74%
Flocculation: Medium to High
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 65-68°F
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium-High



I would have pitched the yeast at about 60-62, and let it rise up to no more than 65 degrees for fermentation. I really like the flavors and quality of the beer when it's fermented on the cool side of the yeast strain's optimum temperature.

 

[jesserizzo]

I don't make starters unless my gravity is gonna be above 1.060.

While this may be working fine for you, it isn't really the best practice.

Using recommended pitching rate of 0.75 million cells/ml/*plato:

100 billion yeast cells / 19000ml in a 5 gallon batch /750,000 cells needed per degree plato = 7* plato (1.028 SG) is the max gravity for liquid yeast without a starter.

 

[freisste]

While this may be working fine for you, it isn't really the best practice.

Using recommended pitching rate of 0.75 million cells/ml/*plato:

100 billion yeast cells / 19000ml in a 5 gallon batch /750,000 cells needed per degree plato = 7* plato (1.028 SG) is the max gravity for liquid yeast without a starter.

I'm not arguing, but why does Wyeast suggest that a single smack pack is sufficient up to 1.060? I have never questioned them before, but based on your math I am starting to question them now. And that assumes 100% viability.

 

[buzbey]

While this may be working fine for you, it isn't really the best practice.

Using recommended pitching rate of 0.75 million cells/ml/*plato:

100 billion yeast cells / 19000ml in a 5 gallon batch /750,000 cells needed per degree plato = 7* plato (1.028 SG) is the max gravity for liquid yeast without a starter.

Your pitching rates are correct for repitching harvested yeast. But When using wyeast or white labs your using a fresh laboratory culture grown with aeration and good nutrition. So you can use up to a 50 percent lower pitching rate

 

[LovesIPA]

I'm not arguing, but why does Wyeast suggest that a single smack pack is sufficient up to 1.060?

I have the same question on this. Everyone suggests using a starter but the manufacturer says one isn't necessary unless you're doing a high grav beer.

Edit: A couple of google searches brought me to: http://www.yeastcalc.com/careandfeeding.html. If you had the same question about yeast, then chances are you need to read that whole page because there was certainly a lot I didn't know about yeast.

 

[RWB1]

I would have pitched the yeast at about 60-62, and let it rise up to no more than 65 degrees for fermentation. I really like the flavors and quality of the beer when it's fermented on the cool side of the yeast strain's optimum temperature.

I have since moved to a cooler location...the damage may already be done but we will see. Next time I will be more careful.

Thanks for the advice

 

[buzbey]

Because you started at such a high temp you should try and bring it back up to that temp around the end of the fermentation for about two days. this will help the yeast absorb some of dycital released in the beginning

 

[jesserizzo]

Your pitching rates are correct for repitching harvested yeast. But When using wyeast or white labs your using a fresh laboratory culture grown with aeration and good nutrition. So you can use up to a 50 percent lower pitching rate

I don't think this is correct. While I admit to having not yet read Fix's book, everywhere I see that recommendation there is no mention it being for harvested yeast.

 

[cluckk]

You said you pitched way more than is needed. The lag time is, among other things, when the yeast are taking up the oxygen and reproducing. When this is done you start getting the high release of CO2 during heavy fermentation.

If you pitched way too high, it takes far less time to take up the oxygen and switch to anaerobic activity. I've had overpinched batches start within 3 hours.

Adjust your pitching rate.

 

[buzbey]

I don't think this is correct. While I admit to having not yet read Fix's book, everywhere I see that recommendation there is no mention it being for harvested yeast.

Its in the book yeast on page 122. He describes the 0.75 million pitching rate and then says to keep in mind that these suggested rates are for repitching harvested yeast. And When pitching a fresh, laboratory culture a brewer can use up to a 50 percent lower pitching rate

 

[jesserizzo]

Its in the book yeast on page 122. He describes the 0.75 million pitching rate and then says to keep in mind that these suggested rates are for repitching harvested yeast. And When pitching a fresh, laboratory culture a brewer can use up to a 50 percent lower pitching rate

I guess that's what I get for quoting something second hand. So if we revise those pitching rates down 50%, we get a yeast smack pack or vial is good for up to 1.056, much more in line with the manufacturers recommendations.

I'm definitely getting the yeast book, lots more to learn.

 

[buzbey]

I was just listening to brew strong where jamil and john palmer are talking about yeast and they also say to only use a vial or smack pack in 5 gallons of wort up 1.040 but say otherwise in the book yeast. Not sure which is more accurate but I personally will be making starters for every batch. I would rather over pitch a small amount than under pitch.