TipsySaint
Well-Known Member
I just finished fermenting a saison with the yeast bays' saison brett blend. I am planning on aging for 3-6 months. Should I bulk age or bottle and let sit (once the gravity is stable that is)?
aging a brett beer
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TheZymurgist
Well-Known Member
Brett is a slow worker. Mike, over at www.themadfermentationist.com says he makes sure his gravity is stable for a month before bottling. Don't bottle until you are absolutely sure the gravity is stable.
Coff
Well-Known Member
3-6 month is more than enough. I would take the first gravity reading at 6 weeks, and again at 8 weeks. if stable youre likely good to package, assuming its sufficiently dry. Brett does a lot of great things under the pressure of bottle conditioning, so assuming you have a stable gravity, get it into bottles to age.
Agreed. A stable gravity is the key (after you know there is Brett activity). Don't worry about bottling before the Brett-flavor is where you want it!
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TipsySaint
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Ok so I should let it sit in the same carboy it fermented in until
1. the gravity is stable
2. 2-3 months has passed
3. the flavor is right about where I want it
After those conditions are met, it's safe to bottle (by safe i mean flavor wise, I understand bottle bombs are no longer a concern)?
It was a combo fermentation with sac. The gravity right now is at 1.004 and its being stored at 25C.
I want to get another beer going so I'm going to have to pull it out of the warm box and let it sit at about 17-18.5C after that. I'm hoping that this will be ok.... or does it need warm through the entire aging process?
1. the gravity is stable
2. 2-3 months has passed
3. the flavor is right about where I want it
After those conditions are met, it's safe to bottle (by safe i mean flavor wise, I understand bottle bombs are no longer a concern)?
It was a combo fermentation with sac. The gravity right now is at 1.004 and its being stored at 25C.
I want to get another beer going so I'm going to have to pull it out of the warm box and let it sit at about 17-18.5C after that. I'm hoping that this will be ok.... or does it need warm through the entire aging process?
The Brett flavour will increase under pressure, in the bottle. You don't have to wait until there is enough Brett flavour in the fermentor.
I would let it sit at 17-18°C. I would try to avoid temps as high as 25°C as the production rate of acetic acid is much higher.
At cooler temperatures everything slows down, but the production of acetic acid slows down even more.
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TipsySaint
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I'm doing something similar. I have a saison sitting in the primary still. SG is also 1.004 at the moment. I'm just waiting for a free evening to rack it to a secondary carboy and pitch the Brett. I'm not going to touch it until next spring/summer. However, I'm planning on kegging.
I was planning on aging in the carboy for the whole time. But should I give it 2-3 months in the secondary carboy to first let it do it's thing on the sugar that's left and then rack it to the keg for the remaining months to get some pressurized aging?
I was planning on aging in the carboy for the whole time. But should I give it 2-3 months in the secondary carboy to first let it do it's thing on the sugar that's left and then rack it to the keg for the remaining months to get some pressurized aging?
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TipsySaint
Well-Known Member
If brett does well under pressure, why not throw it directly into the keg for secondary, pitch your brett, and bob's your uncle!
Maybe throw in some priming sugar for the sacc but the brett might be able to get it to pressure... not sure on that point. Anyone here know if brett will cause enough pressure that you don't need help from the sacc?
I also thought about putting it directly into the keg for secondary. I had some questions/concerns about that though.
1) It's at 1.004 now. Assuming that it will eat down to 1.000, I haven't done the math, but will that be too much pressure?
2) I don't have a gauge to measure pressure, which would be ideal. I could, though, just vent and re-pressurize to a set amount periodically. That's just the headspace though, as I re-pressurize, whatever was in solution will be different, but hopefully over time, it'd all equalize out to the tank pressure I hit it with. The ultimate concern here is just knowing the volumes of carbonation when it comes serving time.
3) lastly, I only have one keg for sour/Brett beers. I have no other plans for this keg in the meantime, but when this goes in, it's in. Will chewing through the last 4 points leave much of a cake at the bottom of the keg?
Oh, and btw, I'd probably start off with some headspace pressure from the start, rather than waiting on the secondary fermentation.
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TipsySaint
Well-Known Member
1. the other 4 points (assuming it chews down that much) won't generate more pressure than a keg can handle.... Those guys are rated from 80-120PSI.....
2. It will equalize with tank pressure over time. If you put 12-15psi on the tank and vent periodically it will get to that (eventually) just try a pour and see if it's to foamy. (long tap lines can help this kinda stuff out too)
3. Adventures in Home brewing is currently having a sale on kegs for 79.99....
3a. ya you want to vent the air out at least....
2. It will equalize with tank pressure over time. If you put 12-15psi on the tank and vent periodically it will get to that (eventually) just try a pour and see if it's to foamy. (long tap lines can help this kinda stuff out too)
3. Adventures in Home brewing is currently having a sale on kegs for 79.99....
3a. ya you want to vent the air out at least....
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TipsySaint
Well-Known Member
When you bottle brett should you add priming sugar for the sacc, or will the brett create enough carbonation on their own?
Thanks, TipsySaint. On#1, I should have more clearly defined "too much". I'm not concerned about the keg holding the pressure, just don't want to have to de-gas down a ton.
On #3, it's mostly that I've already spent a ton on building my kegorator in the last year. I'll have another sour keg sometime, but not now. That still leaves the question, will there be much of a cake from the secondary fermentation?
I'm leaning towards aging in my keg, nonetheless, rather than my carboy.
On #3, it's mostly that I've already spent a ton on building my kegorator in the last year. I'll have another sour keg sometime, but not now. That still leaves the question, will there be much of a cake from the secondary fermentation?
I'm leaning towards aging in my keg, nonetheless, rather than my carboy.
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TipsySaint
Well-Known Member
I doubt it would be enough to need to degas much if at all....
If the yeast you used have good flock that should mostly be left behind when you rack. Does the brett you are using have a high or low floc?
If it's a high floc it could be a decent sized cake..... never really thought about it or paid attention, so i can't say for sure....
If the yeast you used have good flock that should mostly be left behind when you rack. Does the brett you are using have a high or low floc?
If it's a high floc it could be a decent sized cake..... never really thought about it or paid attention, so i can't say for sure....
gregkeller
Well-Known Member
I can't remember the source, maybe an interview on the brewing network, but i think i remember hearing that to get good carbonation it's only like .003 gravity points or something, so if you are at 1.004 and planning on the brett getting you down near 1.000 or 1.001 that should get you enough carb without priming sugar. As to how much sediment you'd have, probably very little. There is no oxygen (as long as you are careful) so the yeast isn't reproducing, just slowly chewing through what's there. I'd say it's probably 6 of one, half a dozen of the other as far as secondary in carboy vs. keg. Some strains of brett (trois i think) drop out of suspension under pressure, so not sure if that would get in the way of it doing it's thing or not.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm pitching a vial of WLP650 Brettanomyces Bruxellensis, which is low flocc, plus dregs from a bottle of Orval, just for good measure. I think it's going in a keg then. I'll probably put 12-15 PSI in it, and mostly forget about it 'til mid-Spring.
You'll get .5 volumes of CO2 for each .001 drop in gravity. Considering "flat" beer has ~.8 volumes already, a drop of .003-.004 would cover most beers.
I tend to lightly prime beers I keg-condition with Brett, easy enough to vent off a little extra CO2. Depends how long they are going to sit too. Not like you'll drop from 1.004 to 1.000 in a few weeks (usually).
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TipsySaint
Well-Known Member
how do you deal with this when bottling? Let it go to .000 in a carboy and then add priming sugar and bottle?
I've been looking for this information. The .5 volumes sounds right. Is there a source or formula for this? Thanks.
Very few Brett'd beers will drop all the way to 1.000. As long as the gravity is stable (for a month) you are fine to bottle with standard priming calculations. Commercial breweries and some dedicated homebrewers learn where a particular recipe/strain combination reliably stops and could use this information to bottle earlier with less sugar.
Kai: http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php/Accurately_Calculating_Sugar_Additions_for_Carbonation
Good stuff. Thanks.
you can plan on brett doing something but you can't be certain it will happen. unless you've done this recipe many times with a specific strain of brett, you can't predict where it will stop. this could lead to unpredictable carbonation.
gregkeller
Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree. I was just going on the OP saying he expected things to get down to 1.000, 1.001. I only have a little experience with Brett (~10 batches) and have not done any one recipe multiple times yet to really "learn" how certain strains behave in my brewery. For me, since i keg, i prime like normal in a keg (2.5oz sugar per 5 gallon keg) and if i get a little further attenuation, then i just vent the keg and play with my co2 pressure to get my carbonation where i want it. If bottling, i'd just let it sit extra long to make sure things were done.
