AG Saison Dupont Recipe?

[cotillion]

I can't seem to find anything definitive on this recipe for an AG 5.5 gallon batch. Everything I seem to pull up is pretty old and heavily conflicted. Does anyone know of a recent and reliable recipe for this saison?

Thank you!

 

[MalFet]

Well, according to the people at Brasserie Dupont the recipe for Vielle Provision hasn't changed since 1920, so no need for a recent recipe. Grain bill is easy: 100% Dingeman's Pilsner. According to Phil Markowski, the hops are two additions of East Kent and Styrian Goldings, though I'm not sure on quantities. I'd guess around 30 IBUs. High attenuation, something ~93%. Hope this gets you started!

 

[cotillion]

Thanks for the response. I guess what I meant by recent was "fully fleshed out" with details on mash in, correct yeast strain, etc. The only ones I ever found were older and carried with them conversations that seemed to doubt one or two of these details. Never found one with any certainty.

 

[MalFet]

Thanks for the response. I guess what I meant by recent was "fully fleshed out" with details on mash in, correct yeast strain, etc. The only ones I ever found were older and carried with them conversations that seemed to doubt one or two of these details. Never found one with any certainty.

You're never going to find an objective, fully fleshed out recipe simply because you'll never be able to recreate the system used by Dupont perfectly. If you used all their parameters, what you'd end up with wouldn't be anything like their beer (assuming it even worked. Instead, once you have the ingredients, you need to adjust them to achieve their outcomes on your system.

The beer's OG is listed at 13.5ºP (1.054) and judging by the alcohol content you'll need to get your FG down to around 1ºP (1.004) or so.

In order to do that, you'll want to mash as low as your system can handle. If you can get full conversion at 147ºF, that's your target. If not, nudge it higher but you really don't want to go above 149ºF.

Dupont uses their own yeast strain, which is sold commercially as WLP565/Wy3724. You'll need a big healthy starter and plenty of patience to get the attenuation you need.

Hop utilization and isomerization rates are going to be very difficult on your hb system than on their commercial system. In any case, the beer is rated around 30-40 IBUs I believe.

 

[thughes]

Harvest the yeast from a few bottles of Dupont (it is not pasteurized). This yeast likes ferm temps @ 85-90F and finishes very dry in a relatively short time (7-10 days at the aforementioned temps). The brewery cellars this for 6--8 weeks with the bottles laying on their side (exposes more of the yeast to the beer). Check out Phil Markowski's "Farmhouse Ales" for further info.

(apologies to MalFet for contradicting some of the info in his post)

 

[MalFet]

Harvest the yeast from a few bottles of Dupont (it is not pasteurized). This yeast likes ferm temps @ 85-90F and finishes very dry in a relatively short time (7-10 days at the aforementioned temps). The brewery cellars this for 6--8 weeks with the bottles laying on their side (exposes more of the yeast to the beer). Check out Phil Markowski's "Farmhouse Ales" for further info.

(apologies to MalFet for contradicting some of the info in his post)

What are you contradicting? :cross:

 

[thughes]

What are you contradicting? :cross:

You'll need ..........plenty of patience to get the attenuation you need.

I stated that it'll finish up in 7-10 days, contradicting your above statement about "requiring patience".

 

[MalFet]

You'll need ..........plenty of patience to get the attenuation you need.

I stated that it'll finish up in 7-10 days, contradicting your above statement about "requiring patience".

Ah, gotcha.

Well, this yeast is notorious for slow fermentations, and there must be a thousand threads about it. I get good, quick results by starting at 68 and slowly ramping up. It sounds like you've never had any trouble either, but that makes us the lucky ones.

 

[cotillion]

This I can work with. Thank you very, very much.

 

[nberna19]

Getting the beer to attenuate fully and finish dry enough is the hardest challenge when making a saison imo. Might want to look at adding 1 lb. of cane sugar to the boil in order to get the beer to dry out sufficiently (ideally around 1.008). And as stated above, a mash temp of 147 F for 90 minutes is in order to get full conversion and will provide a highly fermentable wort.

 

[cotillion]

Most of what I've seen calls for Belgian candy sugar - are you suggesting replacing this with cane or adding cane as well?

 

[MalFet]

Most of what I've seen calls for Belgian candy sugar - are you suggesting replacing this with cane or adding cane as well?

A few years ago, I dissolved candy sugar in one glass of water and generic grocery store sugar in another. In side-by-side tastings, I couldn't tell the difference. With malt and yeast in the mix, I think it'd be even harder to tell.

You can use candy sugar for authenticity if you want, but at the end of the day that and what you get in your supermarket for $.89 a pound are chemically identical. I'm a big fan of the darker Belgian stuff, but pure sucrose is pure sucrose.

 

[cotillion]

Good to know. Thank you. You think 11 or 12 lbs of Dingeman's Pilsner is about right for a 5-5.5 gal batch?

 

[MalFet]

Depends on your efficiency into the kettle, but for something in the neighborhood of 70%-75% that sounds about right.

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

At the risk of bringing back a long-dead thread, I used this last summer as the basis for my own version of Saison Dupont. I followed all the advice here, but I brewed with Yeast Bay's Saison Blend. I ended up bottling half as is, and adding brett to the other half at bottling. The plain saison was great as soon as it carbonated. I left the half bottled with brett alone until Christmas. In side-by-side tasting, there was a subtle but pleasant funk to the brett batch. I really like the depth and complexity of both--it's amazing to get such a variety of flavors from such a simple combination of ingredients.

I'm down to my last couple of bottles, so I'm going to brew up another batch at the end of the week.

 

[NTexBrewer]

At the risk of bringing back a long-dead thread, I used this last summer as the basis for my own version of Saison Dupont. I followed all the advice here, but I brewed with Yeast Bay's Saison Blend. I ended up bottling half as is, and adding brett to the other half at bottling. The plain saison was great as soon as it carbonated. I left the half bottled with brett alone until Christmas. In side-by-side tasting, there was a subtle but pleasant funk to the brett batch. I really like the depth and complexity of both--it's amazing to get such a variety of flavors from such a simple combination of ingredients.

I'm down to my last couple of bottles, so I'm going to brew up another batch at the end of the week.

Do you mind posting your recipe? I just brewed a Sorachi Ace Saison today using 3711. I have been on a Saison brewing spree recently and have brewed a Black Saison similar to Pepe Nero, a Rye Saison and I have an American Saison that is still in the fermenter that I used WLP670 American Farmhouse Blend (A brett Blend). Seems like my next Saison should a Dupont Clone.

 

[The_Nid_Hog]

I brewed this at my friends house to help him get started in brewing, and it seems like I left the recipe there rather than putting it into my brewing notebook.

From memory: for 5 gallons, I used 10 lbs of Belgian Pilsner and .75 lbs of dark candi sugar (leftover from a big batch I had made). Mashed low--around 148--for 90 min.

1 oz. of EKG at 60 min; .5 oz of EKG and .5 oz of Styrian Goldings at 15 min.

I pitched Yeast Bay's Saison Blend and kept my fermentation temperature in the low 70s for a couple of days. After that, I let it ramp up into the 80s by putting it (covered) in a sunny spot and eventually moving it out on my back porch during the day.

I didn't dry hop because I was going away and wanted to get it bottled so my friend could enjoy it while I was gone. We bottled it in champagne bottles. Half bottled as is, half got Brett Brux eyedroppered in at bottling (I followed Old Sock/Mad Fermentationist's instructions for that). The bottles that got the Brett took about six months to develop an appreciable funky character.