After an 8 year hiatus, jumping back in

[BWRIGHT]

It's been more than 8 years since I last brewed a beer. Done a few ciders/meads in that time but no beer. I brewed an extract last weekend as a tune up for my processes and want to jump back into AG, likely this weekend. So much more brewing software available now and I'm attempting to create something specific; figured I might ask if anyone sees where I might be off base with the recipe below.

Just wanted to make something for spring with these specific traits:

1. Balanced. BU/GU ratio near .5. 1.050/25 IBU range
2. Nice bright, orange color, with a thick white, lasting head.
3. Wanted to make it as fruity as possible without adding fruit
4. Hazy. Seems to be popular now. Every beer I ever made, I tried to make as clear as possible so thought I'd try something different.
5. More hop flavor and aroma than bitterness.

-------------------
Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: London Ale III (Wyeast 1318)
Batch Size: 5 gallons
Boil Time: 60 mins
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU: 23
Color: 9 SRM
Primary Fermentation: approx 2 weeks @ 68F
Secondary Fermentation: 2 weeks @ 68F

Ingredients:

7.8 lbs Maris Otter Pale (3.75L)
2.6 lbs Munich Dark (15.5L)
1.17 lbs Flaked Wheat
1.17 lbs Flaked Oats

1.5 oz fresh orange peel @ flameout

Pacifica .5 oz @ 30 mins
Galaxy .5 oz @ 15 mins
Galaxy .5 oz @ Whirlpool (180F)
Citra .5 oz in secondary fermenter

 

[TechFanMD]

I would highly recommend:

NOT going hazy for a jump back into all-grain....especially not a New England IPA (I realize that's not the recipe you posted, just putting it out there).....just because it isn't clear doesn't mean it's easier

If I were you - I'd go to Morebeer or Northernbrewer or one of the others and buy an all-grain kit with a lot of reviews and comments and in a style you enjoy. Brew it to help dial-in. By using a well known recipe with easy to find expectations it is easier to determine what was your process and what is the fault of the recipe or ingredients. Personally - I'd do 2-3 batches this way first. It even helps immensely to brew the same beer a few times in a row to get consistency and troubleshoot.

Even of recipes I've brewed from this site that are very popular I've had mixed results vs kits or recipes I've adjusted for myself from recipes here. At your point you don't want to get discouraged by bad beer or too many variables to tell what went wrong.

 

[IslandLizard]

Welcome back to homebrewing! If you haven't kept up with the homebrew scene, quite a few things may have changed during your absence.

Looks like a decent recipe. Go for it!

That's some dark Munich you've got.

Some notes/ideas:
If you use municipal tap water, treat it with a 1/4 crushed Campden tablet or a good pinch of K-Meta (per 5 gallons) to remove Chlorine/Chloramines.

I'd move the 15' Galaxy to the Whirlpool (170F 15-20')
Move the current Whirlpool Galaxy to dry hop.

WY1318 is a nice yeast. I'd make a starter and save some out. Then make a starter from that, etc.
If you don't have a stir plate, look up Shaken-Not-Stirred starter. Use a gallon jug.

After aerating/oxygenating the wort when pitching your yeast, eliminate air/oxygen exposure as much as possible. Oxidation of beer is real and not good. Even more so for hoppier ones.

Skip the secondary. They're not needed, may cause problems, nothing they solve.
Just leave in primary until done, dry hop in same.

It should clear in a week of cold crashing, if you have a cold chamber setup for that.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

I don't know if you're going to get the bright orange color that a lot of the hazy IPAs have(if that's what you're targeting) with that high an SRM. Mine are usually like 5 SRM. Also not sure exactly what you're going for in terms of hop flavor but that's not nearly enough if you want a hop flavor saturated hazy IPA. That seems more like a pale ale hop schedule but still could produce good beer, like I said just not sure what you're after. IslandLizard covered a lot of the other advice I would've given.

The biggest thing with super hopped beers really is eliminating oxygen, and there's various effective methods depending on your process. You won't get the hop flavor in the end product if you don't.

 

[couchsending]

I’d also recommend 10x as many hops in both the whirlpool and dry hop. If you want something Hazy, you need lots of hops. That’s where the haze comes from. That low of a WP and DH amount wont do much to be honest, especially with orange zest added.

If you’re bottling this however I wouldn’t bother.

Are you kegging? Have any Co2?

Also you need a higher protein content base malt. I see this all the time, people trying to make hazy beer and using low protein English malts. Just use good ol’ cheap 2 American 2 row. You don’t even need the wheat or oats honestly but that’s for another time.

 

[BWRIGHT]

I do have a kegging setup, but plan to bottle this beer. I am not looking to make an IPA whatsoever. The recipe i posted had has an estimated IBU of 24ish. I just wanted to make it hazy and orange in hue just as more of an experiment to see what that might look like.

I guess the question now is how to make it hazy and orange, but not have a lot of hops in it? Have to use a super low flocculating yeast, and specific grains to achieve that look. Not married to using MO, could use regular American 2 row.

 

[brewbama]

Welcome back. I took a similar hiatus a few years ago. Don’t forget to have fun!

 

[BWRIGHT]

I use only bottled spring water, so no problem there. Do have a stir plate so making a starter is not an issue. Definitely can adjust the hop schedule, but again, im not looking to make an NEIPA or an IPA at all. Considering my desired outcome, i dont think this would fit nicely into any BJCP category.

Looking for balance (.5 ish), a specific color, and for it to be hazy. Hiw to acieve the haziness and specific color would be my biggest hurdles, i believe.

 

[jjw5015]

I use only bottled spring water, so no problem there. Do have a stir plate so making a starter is not an issue. Definitely can adjust the hop schedule, but again, im not looking to make an NEIPA or an IPA at all. Considering my desired outcome, i dont think this would fit nicely into any BJCP category.

Looking for balance (.5 ish), a specific color, and for it to be hazy. Hiw to acieve the haziness and specific color would be my biggest hurdles, i believe.

I'd be more focused on achieving a specific flavor/style than worrying about if it's orange and hazy. That recipe just doesn't look like it will result in a very good beer, but different strokes for different folks I suppose.

 

[cubalz]

What took you so long?

 

[z-bob]

I like the idea of a Northern Brewer AG kit. After a couple of those (get your process worked out) start making your own recipes based on what you've learned.

Or if you're really cheap and also kinda disciplined, buy a 50 lb bag of American or Canadian pale ale malt and brew single malt beers with it using different yeasts and hops. You'll learn a lot that way too.

Make sure your water is suitable for brewing. If it tastes good it can probably brew *something* well but it might need some help.

 

[BWRIGHT]

What took you so long?

Life man. Had 2 kids, moved, new job with more hours. Nothing unusual, just a combination of normal things. A brewpub opened up nearby and got me re-interested.

I'd be more focused on achieving a specific flavor/style than worrying about if it's orange and hazy. That recipe just doesn't look like it will result in a very good beer, but different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Yeah, I may be off track on the recipe, that's why I was asking for help. I already know what I like and have a couple notebooks full of beers I brewed back in the day that I seemed to have dialed in (some of them anyway). I guess what I was basically aiming for WAS one of these trendy NEIPA style beers. But, there is no way in hell I'm putting that many hops in a beer. I'm not even that strong of an IPA fan. Trying to brew good balanced beer, not put on a hop exhibition. I have tried a few of the NEIPAs that were strong in hop flavor, but the bitterness was kept to a minimum. Guess I'll just have to learn better how to use this brewing software, read more, and experiment.

Make sure your water is suitable for brewing. If it tastes good it can probably brew *something* well but it might need some help.

Water is terrible here. Tastes like pool water, if the pool water had more chlorine and rust in it.


Back to the drawing board. From what I've gathered so far, need to drop the MO and switch to American 2 row. Possibly drop the flaked wheat/barley (thought that would help with both head retention and the cloudy/hazy aspect?) Maybe cutback the SRM from where I've got it down to more like 5. Should be able to do that by switching to normal Munich vs the dark.

 

[VirginiaHops1]

Have you had one of the 'trendy' NEIPA style beers? If you like it load your beer with hops and go for it, if not then don't. I agree you should be aiming to brew a specific style/taste profile and not be chasing the hazy orange just for the sake of it.

But, homebrewing is all about having fun and it's your first beer in 8 years, so why not

There's nothing wrong with MO. I've had plenty of great hazy IPAs that use it. It is lower in protein than 2 row, but if you're using a lot of other high protein grains you'll be fine. I would drop the munich dark though

 

[Punjom]

If I were you - I'd go to Morebeer or Northernbrewer or one of the others and buy an all-grain kit

I had no idea an all grain kit was a thing. What a great idea for AG beginners or reentrant Folks as you suggested!

 

[z-bob]

Water is terrible here. Tastes like pool water, if the pool water had more chlorine and rust in it.

Do the supermarkets have a water dispenser where you can fill your own jugs for 30¢ a gallon or so? That's what most of the brewers here use.

 

[BWRIGHT]

Have you had one of the 'trendy' NEIPA style beers? If you like it load your beer with hops and go for it, if not then don't. I agree you should be aiming to brew a specific style/taste profile and not be chasing the hazy orange just for the sake of it.

But, homebrewing is all about having fun and it's your first beer in 8 years, so why not

Yeah, I've had a few. Some were OK, some were not. This was just supposed to be something different from the beginning. Because it doesn't fall into a specific category, I think I'm just a contrarian at my core. Most everything I've ever made I probably tweaked it to my taste, which likely pushed it out of whatever "category" it originally belonged to. I like to operate outside normal convention I suppose. NEIPA was only just recently added officially by the BJCP and certainly isn't a new "style" of beer. Just was hoping for some feedback on my weak (long time gone) attempt at a recipe. Not trying to fit into a category. There will be no judges drinking this. Not this first batch anyway.

I had no idea an all grain kit was a thing. What a great idea for AG beginners or reentrant Folks as you suggested!

Don't disagree at all. I'm just confident in my processes to go all in without a kit. Obviously, I need to resharpen my recipe building skills.....

 

[BWRIGHT]

Do the supermarkets have a water dispenser where you can fill your own jugs for 30¢ a gallon or so? That's what most of the brewers here use.

Yep. Even if you just buy spring water by the gallon right off the shelf, it's about $.80 or there abouts.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have tried a few of the NEIPAs that were strong in hop flavor, but the bitterness was kept to a minimum.

If you like those, high on hop flavor and aroma, fairly low on bitterness (30-40 IBU), you'll need at least 8-12 oz total of 2 or 3 "IPA hops" per 5 gallon batch. Small or no 60' bittering hops, no other boil hops, 1/3 low temp whirlpool (170-150F or even lower, 20-40' 1 or 2 additions), the rest in dry hop, usually 2 additions.

You need access to CO2, and kegs, closed or semi-closed transfer. Any air/oxygen intrusion after fermentation starts results in oxidation and losing hop lustre quickly.

Most of us buy those hops by the pound (YVH, HopsDirect, Farmhouse Brewing, there are others), and store them deep frozen.

The grain bill is simple, not too malty (e.g., no Dark Munich). 20-40% MO or Golden Promise, but you don't have to. Rest 2-row (e.g., Rahr), some light crystal 5-20L and 1-2 pounds of flaked oats or flaked wheat or split.
I do brew an all GP (with the crystal and flaked goods) which is truly awesome.
WY1318 works and tastes great!

Here's one of our main NEIPA threads. It's long. Read beginning few pages, then end, and browse backward.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/

Most IPA / NEIPA kits are too skimpy on hops. And all their crush sucks.
They're best when on sale like NB or MoreBeer, buy any 3, $20 a piece and free shipping.
Mill your own and supplement with extra hops.

The recipe you have in your OP is not a NEIPA. It's an "Amber Pale Ale."

 

[BWRIGHT]

If you like those, high on hop flavor and aroma, fairly low on bitterness (30-40 IBU), you'll need at least 8-12 oz total of 2 or 3 "IPA hops" per 5 gallon batch. Small or no 60' bittering hops, no other boil hops, 1/3 low temp whirlpool (170-150F or even lower, 20-40' 1 or 2 additions), the rest in dry hop, usually 2 additions.

You need access to CO2, and kegs, closed or semi-closed transfer. Any air/oxygen intrusion after fermentation starts results in oxidation and losing hop lustre quickly.

Most of us buy those hops by the pound (YVH, HopsDirect, Farmhouse Brewing, there are others), and store them deep frozen.

The grain bill is simple, not too malty (e.g., no Dark Munich). 20-40% MO or Golden Promise, but you don't have to. Rest 2-row (e.g., Rahr), some light crystal 5-20L and 1-2 pounds of flaked oats or flaked wheat or split.
I do brew an all GP (with the crystal and flaked goods) which is truly awesome.
WY1318 works and tastes great!

Here's one of our main NEIPA threads. It's long. Read beginning few pages, then end, and browse backward.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/northeast-style-ipa.568046/

Most IPA / NEIPA kits are too skimpy on hops. And all their crush sucks.
They're best when on sale like NB or MoreBeer, buy any 3, $20 a piece and free shipping.
Mill your own and supplement with extra hops.

The recipe you have in your OP is not a NEIPA. It's an "Amber Pale Ale."

Appreciate all the advise above and will keep at it. Just want to say again, I am not trying to make an IPA. Not a NEIPA or any kind of IPA. Recipe and hop schedule would be much different. I'll keep at it and post results when done.

 

[TechFanMD]

I had no idea an all grain kit was a thing. What a great idea for AG beginners or reentrant Folks as you suggested!

Even if not a kit - just to brew a well known and tested recipe helps....I mean, a kit is just the store pre-measuring everything for you and giving you the recipe. All of Norther Brewer's recipes are online and there a loads of amazing recipes -well tested and tweaked to perfection - on this forum to brew. To start out by making your own recipe means you don't have anything to go off of, fall back on, or ask others who have brewed it questions to help troubleshoot if there are issues. I'm speaking from experience - I don't think it's a good idea to have your first all-grain be a recipe you make up from scratch. I was stubborn and did this the first few AG batches and lost time I could have been using to dial in process and equipment to really nail down the ability to make good beer and experiment with my own recipes.

 

[BWRIGHT]

I've made probably 30-40 different all grain 5 gallon batches. Just haven't done when 8 years is all. All that I needed help on was the recipe construction as that IS new to me. Trying to shape the recipe to fit a particular style is of no interest to me. I stated my original goals in the original post:

Just wanted to make something for spring with these specific traits:

1. Balanced. BU/GU ratio near .5. 1.050/25 IBU range
2. Nice bright, orange color, with a thick white, lasting head.
3. Wanted to make it as fruity as possible without adding fruit
4. Hazy. Seems to be popular now. Every beer I ever made, I tried to make as clear as possible so thought I'd try something different.
5. More hop flavor and aroma than bitterness.

I've tweaked the recipe as follows and still am open to any critiques/suggestions as long as it's not to tell me that my (admittedly novice) recipe is not an NEIPA. What changes can be made to steer me toward the stated goals? I don't believe you need to have 20 oz of hops in a beer to make it hazy. I've made hazy beers in the past that didn't have 3 oz of hops. Although, that was not my intention at the time.

Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: London Ale III (Wyeast 1318)
Batch Size: 5 gallons
Boil Time: 60 mins
Original Gravity: 1.055
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU: 24
Color: 4.8 SRM
Primary Fermentation: approx 2 weeks @ 66F
Secondary Fermentation: 2 weeks @ 68F

Ingredients:

8.8 lbs American Pale 2 row
1.6 lbs Munich Light (6L)
1.17 lbs Flaked Wheat
1.17 lbs Flaked Oats

1 oz fresh orange peel @ flameout

.5 oz Azacca @ 30 mins
.5 oz Vic Secret @ 15 mins
.5 oz Azacca @ Flameout
.5 oz Vic Secret (Dry hop in secondary)

 

[jjw5015]

Don't secondary if you're not bulk aging. That's definitely something that's become unanimous in the last 8 years

 

[BWRIGHT]

Yeah, I've seen that seems to be a more popular point of view now. I really only would secondary in the past in an effort to help further clear the beer. Certainly wouldn't make sense on this one.