Advice on large-scale growing

[half_whit]

I have a friend who lives in the "country" of Pennsylvania and built his blacksmith shop on a hill. We decided to give growing a shot this year and after doing things wrong and not researching enough, the experiment has been surprisingly successful! We grew in an open field on a hill and had our poles (aircraft grade aluminum poles from an old hangglider!) about 16ft tall. It was a particularly rainy summer, so our neglectful watering habits were no problem. The hill got excellent drainage and they got sunlight straight through the day. My first year fuggles cones are a 1/3 the size of my palm. Along the way we've learned what to do differently, been talking to other growers, and occasionally reading for ourselves

This friend has been researching some kind of small business grant type stuff (that I don't even pretend to understand) and has figured if we come up with X amount of money, Uncle Sam will give us X amount of money and we can grow more. Did I mention this was a several-acre field?

So we're interested in seeing what would happen if we planted 1 acre of hops. Rather than re-invent the wheel, I wanted to ask for advice from those who have gone down this road before.

 

[Yankeehillbrewer]

Is your goal to make a living at it, or just a side business? I started thinking about doing this a few months ago. So I roughly penciled it out, and found that unless I went huge, meaning thousands and thousands of plants, it wouldn't make sense for me. Once you start talking big numbers of plants, you start to need equipment, lots of time and manpower. It seems to me, that just like making beer, growing hops takes a huge volume to even just make a little money at it. For me it wouldn't have been much more than a tax write off for a few years.

Here is how I see it...Assuming you plant same varieties 3' apart and have your rows 6' apart, you could fit roughly 2300 plants on an acre. If you yield 1.5lbs dry per plant, you have 3450 lbs or 55,200 ounces. Say on average you get a $1.25 per oz, that's $69,000 per acre. Now you start deducting all of your overhead from that, and I think my numbers area little generous or could just be way off.

With the right acreage you can probably make some decent money. There are a number of Hop Farmers on here that can give you the real skinny on it though.

 

[half_whit]

We're definitely thinking side-project, at least for now. My friend's estimate (and forgive me, I don't actually know how he got to this number) was about 5k start-up cost. That would include plants and whatever idea he had for a trellis setup. Thinking of it in terms of 2300 plants makes me think maybe his estimate is on the low side.

We'll need to till the bejeebus out of the place, which means hiring someone (or calling in some favors from the farmers he's friendly with). We have some strong-backed friends who we could probably guilt/bribe/hire to help us.

Thanks for the insight/numbers! I'm really interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on this. It's difficult for me to really picture an acres worth of vines in my head (though I must admit...almost gives me a chubby to think about it)

 

[GVH_Dan]

Search my previous posts and you'll find various advice I've given out in the past but let me throw some out for you now.

Background: I'm one of the partners and the engineer for Gorst Valley Hops in Wisconsin. We grow and process hops and establish contracts with other growers to help them grow their crop and then we process and sell it. We require all of our growers to start with at least an acre. Most expand to 2 or 3 within a couple of years. So I'm pretty familiar with 1 acre numbers.

What we usually advocate is 8 to 12 foot wide aisles so you can fit a tractor/truck/wagon down them for working on the top wire. Yes, you are reduced to only 1200 plants per acre but they produce much better since they get more sunshine and air flow to reduce mold and mildew.

OK, so 1200 plants at 1.5 lbs/plant (reality, many won't get above 900 while some can reach 2,000) gives you 1800 lbs/acre after they are 3 to 4 years old.

Your sale price will be important. If you go wholesale price, you won't be able to make it work. You'll need to get a premium price. Probably at least $10 to $12/lb. (At an acre, you have to sell to brewers on a per lb basis. You won't be able to find enough homegrowers to sell all your product.) Of course if you are charging a premium price, you better be delivering a premium quality hop. A few years back the word "local" was enough for most brewers to buy some hops but now they are also expecting a higher quality product than what they are getting from the big guys.

You may be able to sell them wet or whole cone but at some point you will probably have to look into pelletizing your hops. That's a different discussion, though.

Installation will be about $10,000. Maybe you can find free poles or used wire but you won't find cheaper fertilizer or used irrigation. Rhizomes will run you $2 to $3 a piece....$2,000 to $3,000. If you need a well, add another $3,000 to $8,000. This assumes you have the land, a tractor, tools, etc.

As I mentioned, your harvest first year will be zilch. Your harvest the second year will be 400 lb at most. Your operating costs will be the same. Figure 20 hours/week the first three years for labor (weeding, training, etc.). If you get a good cover crop and your religious about weeding, by the 4th year it will calm down. Of course by then you will be expanding your yard and starting over.

Don't forget an oast for drying, packaging material, testing/analysis, etc. Yep, there's a thousand hidden costs.

The long and the short of it is it can be really fun and rewarding, though not monetarily for quite awhile. That said, we've been running workshops for quite a few years giving everyone the straight facts on the business. After we are done, about 90% get up, walk away and never put a rhizome in the ground. Of the remaining 10%, 1/4 to 1/2 actually go through with it, though most won't commit to a full acre. After 3 years, 3/4 of those have either quit or have become "hobby growers", which are people that probably won't make a profit but enjoy growing, working with brewers, etc. Your friend's right, you need A LOT of acres to make a living at it but it is possible to make some money at it as a side business and that's the goal of our growers.

Anyway, best of luck.

 

[half_whit]

Thanks for the super-objective advice, Dan. Spelling out the gory details is going to be a huge help. It's so easy to grow 5 plants and get all excited about it and lose sight of reality.

Land is the one thing we've got plenty of, and the owner is sick and hates seeing it go to waste. I don't think our minds have been changed (also appreciate that you didn't try to!), but it might be prudent to hold off one more year and maybe get a little more experience and knowledge first.

So while we're on the subject of knowledge....lets say someone actually pulls this off and has a truck load of hops. How do they generally go about (effectively) selling them? Is it really just a matter of calling up breweries and saying "hey, look what I got!" I guess what I really mean to ask is...how often do you hear of someone growing a field of hops that no one wants?

 

[GVH_Dan]

Thanks for the super-objective advice, Dan. Spelling out the gory details is going to be a huge help. It's so easy to grow 5 plants and get all excited about it and lose sight of reality.

Land is the one thing we've got plenty of, and the owner is sick and hates seeing it go to waste. I don't think our minds have been changed (also appreciate that you didn't try to!), but it might be prudent to hold off one more year and maybe get a little more experience and knowledge first.

Going from 5 to 1200...240 x's the plants but 480 x's the work.

If you are growing on someone else's land, even a relative, make sure you establish a long term rental agreement of some sort. This varies from state to state but in most areas any "improvements" you make belong to the owner of the land at the end of rental term. In other words, you drop all this cash on infrastructure and plants, the current owner passes away, some distant relative shows up and says, "Hops, cool. I've always wanted to get into that business. Thanks guys, you are out..." and you have nothing left. Make sure you protect yourself for the long run.

And no, I never tell someone, "You shouldn't grow hops." I think everyone should do this. Misery loves company. What we do is tell everyone the cold hard facts of what it costs, how much labor there is, the obstacles to selling, the pest/weed management practices that work/don't work, etc. To a lot of people, it sounds like we are saying "don't do it" but its usually a case of our experience not matching up with their idealistic vision.

Quick example is growing organic. We have found there is no way to get enough available nitrogen to the plants in the short amount of time they need to achieve full production. So if you go organic, expect a 50% reduction in harvest. That's not an opinion, that's fact as determined by us and several other larger growers/researchers elsewhere in the world. The problem is organic hops don't carry a price tag that is twice as much as non-organic. Brewer's aren't willing to pay for that. That's just a fact. Put those two facts together and you discover its even harder to make money at growing hops if you also want to grow organic. Philosophically, its a cool idea but its really hard to put it into practice.

 

[GVH_Dan]

So while we're on the subject of knowledge....lets say someone actually pulls this off and has a truck load of hops. How do they generally go about (effectively) selling them? Is it really just a matter of calling up breweries and saying "hey, look what I got!" I guess what I really mean to ask is...how often do you hear of someone growing a field of hops that no one wants?

Congratulations on winning the "thinking ahead" trophy. This is the part most people forget in their master plan. Back up, they usually forget from drying on...like they are going to pick the hops and the magical hop fairy will drop down and whisk them away to a brewery somewhere.

Yeah, its really is as simple as calling up breweries. Just plan on calling about 200+ times, stopping in 50 time and doing this to several breweries. The problem is that by now they have been "promised" hops at least 100 times. Hops have shown up about 10 times. 9 of those times, they arrived in a garbage bag, a ziploc bag or maybe a burlap sack. They were at various levels of dry and had no testing/analysis done for alpha level or anything else. This makes them almost worthless to the brewer. The other 1 person maybe got most of that right and they were either used for wet hopping, dry hopping or used as a portion of the hops. Of course, if they showed up as whole cone, it meant the brewer had a much larger mess to clean out of the kettle and probably swore he would never do that again.

Here's you options:

1.) whole cone, wet - you pick them and throw them straight into the kettle. Its a great trick when it works, but it takes a lot of trust and coordination. If you don't produce and harvest what is promised, the brewer is throwing out wort because he's basically brewing while you are picking.

2.) whole cone, dry - pick, dry and sell the cone as is. Some homebrewer's like this. A very few brewers like this but it makes to big of a mess in their kettles and heat exchanger for most. The best bet is to use it for dry hopping.

3. Hop puck, dry - dry them and squeeze them into pucks. Still leave a big mess, but not as bad. Less storage space than whole cones and less surface for oxidation but no commercial equipment out there that I know of to make them.

4. Pellets - This was our downfall. This is what the brewer's wanted so we said OK. $40k ring die pellet mill, custom set up for liquid nitrogen cooling, $15k hammer to grind them up, packaging equipment, conveying equipment, inventory system, etc. By the time we got this working, we had to find other growers to help us feed it. The key though is if you deliver a vacuum packed set of hop pellets with proper testing results written on the bag, just like they see from the big guys, there are very few brewers who will turn their back on you.

OK, long story short. Brewer's realize they are in the "local" market. Their customers are all local, so it makes sense to buy local. If for no other reason than its good marketing. But if they can't get something that's been tested or in a form they can use, they aren't going to bother. You need to take your first years crop (and maybe second) and figure out how to properly dry them. Then get them tested. Then process them however and properly package them. Then start showing them off to brewer's in your area. Make sure you make yourself stand out from the guy who brought in the garbage bag of hops...and that's not by walking in with an officially looking logo emblazoned shirt. Be confident and intelligent but don't try to tell the brewer how he/she can use your hops. Show him/her what you have and let them decide what they can do.

 

[GVH_Dan]

One more...when you harvest this year, time yourself per bine. Then figure these are immature plants so double it and take it times 1200.

We've found it takes roughly 45 minutes/bine of labor to hand pick.

 

[Stokes_]

Good thread. I'm turing about 1/4 acre of my back yard into a miniature hop farm next year.

 

[PariahVineyard]

Half wit - We are just up the road from you and have 600 bines planted, 150 planted last year, 450 this year. If you ever want to stop by let me know.

As for information, take everything Dan says to heart.

 

[half_whit]

Half wit - We are just up the road from you and have 600 bines planted, 150 planted last year, 450 this year. If you ever want to stop by let me know.

As for information, take everything Dan says to heart.

That would be awesome, actually. Thank you! I'll PM you in a bit

 

[outside92129]

Why don't you take Dan's workshop? A few hundy is worth the investment if you're looking to drop some serious coin. There's a class coming up in Sept:

http://www.gorstvalleyhops.com/workshops.php

 

[PariahVineyard]

Yeah, its really is as simple as calling up breweries. Just plan on calling about 200+ times, stopping in 50 time and doing this to several breweries. The problem is that by now they have been "promised" hops at least 100 times. Hops have shown up about 10 times. 9 of those times, they arrived in a garbage bag, a ziploc bag or maybe a burlap sack.

Dan, I had a questions on this statement. We are delivering wet (fresh) hops to a brewery very soon and were going to use burlap to store them in on the transport. I liked burlap because it is very open so air can get in and the hops won't start growing any type of molds (though they will lose some weight). Do you recommend a different transport package for wet hops? I think your comment above was just for dried hops, but want to be sure.

Thanks,

and sorry Half Wit for putting this question in your thread, I just wanted to keep it where the orignal post was.

 

[half_whit]

No offense taken brodude. All discussions on the subject are welcome. I'll learn anything I can!

 

[GVH_Dan]

Do you recommend a different transport package for wet hops? I think your comment above was just for dried hops, but want to be sure.

Specifically, my comment was for introduction of your product to the brewer. I'll come back to that.

We pick everything into open cargo totes, shipping crate, etc. and transfer them almost immediately to the oast. When they are finished drying, we bale them in the white poly-woven bags...modern burlap sack. They are inexpensive, can hold a lot of compression and breathable, just like you said. Perfect for storage.

From the standpoint of a wet harvest cone, there is only one problem with your plan, namely insects. Once you pick those cones, the insects realize it and start an exodus. This is good because you don't really want them in the brew. If you put them in a bag that is tied shut, you don't give them much of a chance to escape. A better solution is open topped crates that will allow airflow and bugs to escape. Just be careful of the vehicle you choose for transport. Trust me, I spent a day bug bombing my old minivan to get all the spiders, stinkbugs and ladybugs out.

OK, if your brewer is expecting wet hops to show up in a burlap sack or whatever, that is fine. You've all ready built a relationship, established expectations, etc.

If this is the first time visiting a brewer as a potential customer, you have to set the bar a bit higher. Think of it this way, no one wants to think of all the dead bugs that were mixed with the wheat that made their bread. No one wants to think of all the rat turds in the grain that was malted for their beer. No one wants to think of the e-coli or other things that are still in small quantities on their meat. No, we all want to think of our food as completely sterile. Well its hard to maintain that thought if you show up with an ingredient in a less than hygienic packaging.

Plus, there's the professionalism of it all. They are used to receiving everything in vacuum packed, UV resistant, Oxygen barrier packaging that has been gas flushed and sealed, including whole cone hops. If you hand them something packaged in the same manner, that will set them at ease that you are a professional who knows what you are doing. And there is no half way...I know a grower that got the proper packaging material, got their hops pelletized somehow, shoved them in the bag and then folded the top over and sealed it with duct tape. So close, right? When it arrived at the brewery it was not only rejected but the brewer sent out pictures to other brewers mocking this guy. He has since moved on to grapes.

 

[PariahVineyard]

Why don't you take Dan's workshop? A few hundy is worth the investment if you're looking to drop some serious coin. There's a class coming up in Sept:

http://www.gorstvalleyhops.com/workshops.php

If anyone is going from the east coast, coming through PA or close, let me know. I'd split a ride with you.

 

[33Canuck]

Dan, you are the man, you are spot on with everythign you say, great post's bud!
Kurt
Bluebellhopyard.com

 

[GVH_Dan]

Thanks, Kurt. I would love to tell you all that I'm just that smart...but most of this was learned at the school of hard knocks.

Thanks also to all mentioning the course. I promise it will be informative and straight to the point. I feel we need to warn people on that point because many walk away very disillusioned after the course because our experiences don't match up with their dream.

I would also mention that Glen Fuller (a.k.a. Hopfarmer on this forum) has a workshop out at Rising Suns Farm in Colorado, occasionally. If Wisconsin is too far to come, check his out. I understand its a pretty good time.

 

[sasky7777]

Another good resource is Left Field Farms they have a how to guide that is good reading http://www.crannogales.com/site/downloads/HopsManual.pdf