Advice on ingredients for brewing my first beer.

[Ian DSouza]

I wanted to brew my first beer soon. I was thinking of the following ingredients. I was wondering if I could seek some help selecting the right ingredients. Where I'm at, I am somewhat limited in the choice of ingredients.

1) Dry malt extract

2) Red Wine yeast or Dry wine yeast: I plan to brew about a couple liters at a time. So, I need a yeast with high alcohol tolerance. Which one would you recommend?

3) I'm looking for a "mutli-purpose" hops and deciding between Fuggles and Cascade: I like Belgian "style" beers as well as stouts. My personal favorite is La Fin du Monde from Unibroue which uses Styrian Goldings. Styrian Goldings is closely related to Fuggles, so I'm leaning towards Fuggles at the moment. My other options would be Chinook, Calypso, Galena, Nelson Sauvin and Magnum.

4) I might add some additional spices like coriander powder (the powder as opposed to the whole seed was recommended in many recipes) and orange zest. Do you know if I can use whole raw/dry-roasted coriander seeds instead? If using the powder is mandatory, does it have to be made from dry-roasted or raw coriander seeds? The final flavor of the powder is different between the two.

I realize the ingredients might be all over the place for any particular style of beer but I'm trying to go along the lines of La Fin du Monde.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Replace the wine yeast with a Trappist yeast. Lallemand's Lalbrew Abbaye is the best dry yeast option available if you prefer to go that route. It should be quite similar to WLP500 and WY1214.

 

[Ian DSouza]

Replace the wine yeast with a Trappist yeast. Lallemand's Lalbrew Abbaye is the best dry yeast option available if you prefer to go that route. It should be quite similar to WLP500 and WY1214.

I checked some local websites for those yeasts but they don't quite have them. There is one website that supposedly sells WLP550 and WLP575 (both have an alcohol tolerance of 8-12%) in bulk quantities for microbreweries. I wrote to them asking if they could sell in homebrew sized proportions.

 

[mongoose33]

My theory on new brewers is they should brew simple recipes that are proven to produce good beer. Brewing is relatively simple at one level, but not simplistic. There are a lot of moving parts.

The problem is that if things don't turn out, was it due to your recipe, or making a mistake in the process? You can't know. Thus, if you use an established recipe, or one vetted by experienced brewers, you eliminate one variable from consideration.

So, use a simple recipe so you can dial in the process. Things like making sure you don't scorch the wort, getting the timing of the hops, chilling, then getting the priming sugar correct, then bottling--none of it is rocket science, but I don't know if there's anybody who hasn't made at least a minor mistake when they start brewing.

Once you have the process down, then start changing things as makes sense to you. I don't think I'd add coriander to beer if you held a gun to my head, but if you like it, fine. But don't invent a recipe here--the odds are fairly high it's not going to turn out.

****

I have no idea to what you might have access in India. Do you have any homebrew resources at all, or are you sourcing this from overseas?

If you look here at the recipes forum, you'll find a ton of recipes. Further, you can go to Northern Brewer or Morebeer, and they actually list the recipes in their kits. I'm guessing you have no access to kits, otherwise I'd advise you to use one to eliminate the issue of deciding on a recipe. But you can use them to source ingredients. Here's one as an example:

https://www.morebeer.com/products/belgian-tripel-extract-beer-brewing-kit-5-gallons.html

Toward the bottom of the page there's a link to "brewing instructions" and "recipe sheet": https://www.morebeer.com/images/file.php?file_id=25189

Among other things, it includes LME (liquid malt extract) and DME (dried malt extract). You need some candi syrup, and the page gives you lots of ideas as to yeast.

****

Having said that, I think you should not start with a Tripel. It's a big beer, meaning you're likely, as a new brewer, to have some issue with fermentation. Original gravity on the recipe above is 1.078, which is big. You'd need double the yeast to start, plus you'd be well-advised to oxygenate the wort at the start, as well as 12 hours in. I doubt you're prepared to do that. It's one of the reasons why I suggest not trying a big beer, nor complicated recipe, at the outset.

You'll get there, it's just not, IMO, the way to start--and be successful. That said, good luck, and I admire your goal.

 

[Ian DSouza]

I don't think I'd add coriander to beer if you held a gun to my head, but if you like it, fine. But don't invent a recipe here--the odds are fairly high it's not going to turn out.

I'm fairly sure that La fin du Monde has coriander in it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/la-fin-du-monde-clone.83335/. May be other homebrewers could pitch in here.

Do you have any homebrew resources at all, or are you sourcing this from overseas?

There are may about five websites that sell brew ingredients here. Not a lot of choice. Shipping from overseas might dent my budget with the import taxes and shipping rates.

 

[Stand]

I would use WLP530, but you want dry yeast. I would take the earlier suggestions to use a Belgian ale strain rather than wine yeast.

Keep grain bill simple, but you need sugar.

Last time I did a trippel I went 80% Pilsner, 10% Munich, 10% candi syrup.

That worked well for me. The DME can replace both malts, and you can replace candi sugar with regular sugar.

 

[Ian DSouza]

I would take the earlier suggestions to use a Belgian ale strain rather than wine yeast.

Thanks. This may be a noob question but how much of the flavor profile of the beer comes from the particular yeast that is chosen. I know this may be hard to quantify.

 

[mongoose33]

I'm fairly sure that La fin du Monde has coriander in it: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/la-fin-du-monde-clone.83335/. May be other homebrewers could pitch in here.


There are may about five websites that sell brew ingredients here. Not a lot of choice. Shipping from overseas might dent my budget with the import taxes and shipping rates.

That was a joke, but the larger point is that if you think that your first foray into home brewing should be a complicated recipe and you're expecting excellent results....

....well, one thing I always say about home brewing is its beauty is people can do what they want to do. Do what you will, and good luck.

 

[Stand]

Thanks. This may be a noob question but how much of the flavor profile of the beer comes from the particular yeast that is chosen. I know this may be hard to quantify.

Belgian beers are very yeast driven. They are also somewhat temperature dependent. Can you control temperatures?

 

[Ian DSouza]

Can you control temperatures?

Unfortunately, no. One of the websites that sells belgain abbey yeast says that its fermentation temperature is 15C to 28C. The atmospheric temperature is 30C at the moment but I suspect the room temperature might be slightly cooler.

 

[Jag75]

What are you using as a fermenter . You could do the swamp cooler method to help stabilize temp.

 

[kh54s10]

I would advise not trying to formulate your own recipe at this point. It seems from your questions that you have not really studied enough about brewing beer. For instance, your thought on needing wine yeast to handle the alcohol level of the beer. There are plenty of beer yeasts that can handle high alcohol levels. How high are you trying to produce. Too high and you are just going to get a high alcohol content swill.

Look for a proven recipe of a beer you would like to make and brew it as close as possible to that recipe.
Look for a pretty simple recipe.
Brew day techniques and fermentation control contribute as much or more to a finished beer as does the recipe.
Learn about how different ingredients combine.

After a few you can expand on your knowledge and try more complicated recipes.

Good luck.

 

[Stand]

Temp control isn't that hard. I used swamp cooling (wet t-shirt wrapped around fermenter sitting in a bucket of water) and some frozen 2L bottles of salt water for years.

Belgian yeasts will produce more fruity esters at higher temps. They do handle higher temp fermentation well, but it will impact the flavor.

If you can do something to keep the beer from rising quickly at the start of fermentation that will probably be sufficient.

How low can you chill the beer before you add yeast?

 

[eric19312]

I found quite a few homebrew suppliers claiming to be located in India. Are you in a dry state like Gujarat? I think belgian styles are a good choice if temperature control is difficult. I'd still recommend you do the swamp chiller and put the fermentor in a shallow container of water with a shirt on the fermentor that extends into the water. If you blow a fan at the t-shirt the evaporation of the water wicking up through the shirt will keep the fermentor plenty cold.

DME+table sugar will make a decent belgian ale - maybe in 80/20 ratio.

Use as good of water as you can get and make sure it has no chlorine or chloramines. You could boil the water before brewing if it has chlorine but if there are chloramines best to treat it with campden tablets.

Get a belgian yeast from one of those in-country suppliers. Really any belgian yeast would be ok. Because I suggest you should not start trying to make something super high in alcohol. It will probably come out terrible, there is a lot of skill in getting a very high alcohol beer to come out tasting good. Just make something that tastes good and drink more of it if need be. I think you could target low end of ABV for belgian say 7-8% ABV and make a really nice beer with limited ingredients that you will enjoy (note if you were not going to do a belgian style that would still be crazy high ABV and I would be suggesting you aim at 4-5%. So it won't be Unibroue but it will be home made and you and your friends will be amazed with how good it is.

 

[Ian DSouza]

What are you using as a fermenter . You could do the swamp cooler method to help stabilize temp.

It's going to be a glass bottle that has a cap I can screw on. I've tried brewing ginger ale in it and it turned out alright. I will try the swamp cooler thing.

For instance, your thought on needing wine yeast to handle the alcohol level of the beer.

I am aware that there are some Belgian yeast strains (including the one used by Unibroue themselves) that have high alcohol tolerance. However, I can't find those locally. I think I will opt in for a lower alcohol tolerance Belgian abbey yeast.

Look for a proven recipe of a beer

I did try looking for some recipes. However, many of them use grains instead of DME. I think my inspiration came from seeing one of Craig's videos (of Criag Tube) where he just used pre-hopped DME, dextrose and something he called "adjunct".

How low can you chill the beer before you add yeast?

I have a regular fridge and freezer. So, may be down till -10C (14F). I might have a thermometer lying around somewhere but I will have to check. What would be the ideal temperature of the beer adding a Belgian yeast?

 

[Ian DSouza]

I found quite a few homebrew suppliers claiming to be located in India. Are you in a dry state like Gujarat? I think belgian styles are a good choice if temperature control is difficult. I'd still recommend you do the swamp chiller and put the fermentor in a shallow container of water with a shirt on the fermentor that extends into the water. If you blow a fan at the t-shirt the evaporation of the water wicking up through the shirt will keep the fermentor plenty cold.

DME+table sugar will make a decent belgian ale - maybe in 80/20 ratio.

Use as good of water as you can get and make sure it has no chlorine or chloramines. You could boil the water before brewing if it has chlorine but if there are chloramines best to treat it with campden tablets.

Get a belgian yeast from one of those in-country suppliers. Really any belgian yeast would be ok. Because I suggest you should not start trying to make something super high in alcohol. It will probably come out terrible, there is a lot of skill in getting a very high alcohol beer to come out tasting good. Just make something that tastes good and drink more of it if need be. I think you could target low end of ABV for belgian say 7-8% ABV and make a really nice beer with limited ingredients that you will enjoy (note if you were not going to do a belgian style that would still be crazy high ABV and I would be suggesting you aim at 4-5%. So it won't be Unibroue but it will be home made and you and your friends will be amazed with how good it is.

Thanks for all those pointers. I'm not in the state of Gujarat. The local beers here are run-of-the-mill lagers and have glycerin added as a preservative. The glycerin gives an off-taste. There is a way to remove it but it ends up diluting the beer a tiny bit with water.

 

[Ian DSouza]

I was thinking of getting a dry Belgian yeast. How many grams would go in a liter of the beer? I looked up a few recipes like this one https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/635880/la-fin-du-monde-clone but they just say 1 'quantity' for a 5 gallon batch - I think they are referring to a vial of liquid yeast.

 

[Stand]

It's going to be a glass bottle that has a cap I can screw on. I've tried brewing ginger ale in it and it turned out alright. I will try the swamp cooler thing.


I am aware that there are some Belgian yeast strains (including the one used by Unibroue themselves) that have high alcohol tolerance. However, I can't find those locally. I think I will opt in for a lower alcohol tolerance Belgian abbey yeast.


I did try looking for some recipes. However, many of them use grains instead of DME. I think my inspiration came from seeing one of Craig's videos (of Criag Tube) where he just used pre-hopped DME, dextrose and something he called "adjunct".


I have a regular fridge and freezer. So, may be down till -10C (14F). I might have a thermometer lying around somewhere but I will have to check. What would be the ideal temperature of the beer adding a Belgian yeast?

How big is that glass bottle?

How big a batch do you plan? You can use DME and candi syrup or sugar.

I usually pitch yeast at around 18C and try to let it rise slowly over 3-4 days to around 24C. When activity slows I hold it at that temp for another few days.

It really will make a good beer even if you let it go much higher than that. The first couple days are the most critical. If you can keep it from spiking real hard when the fermentation gets going you should be OK.

You will be OK either way, but if it gets real hot 32+ say you will get solvent flavors and a fruit bomb.

At least that was my experience with my first Belgian Trippel before I knew how hard and fast the yeast can spike.

Cheers!

 

[eric19312]

I was thinking of getting a dry Belgian yeast. How many grams would go in a liter of the beer? I looked up a few recipes like this one https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/635880/la-fin-du-monde-clone but they just say 1 'quantity' for a 5 gallon batch - I think they are referring to a vial of liquid yeast.

There is a huge amount of debate about the right amount of yeast for any beer and many calculators available on the internet to figure out how much to use and how to build up to the required quantity when you are starting out with too little yeast. But sounds like you are small batch brewer and single pack of yeast is going to cover multiple batches.

To keep it simple I'd assume that one 11 gram pack of dry yeast is enough yeast for 5 gallons (about 19 liters) normal strength beer - say something around 5-6% ABV. For stronger beer you could double the amount of yeast.

Once you open the yeast pack it is going to degrade pretty quickly. First it will take on water from the air and then contaminants. You can try to save it by sealing it well and storing the unused portion in a freezer.

 

[Ian DSouza]

How big is that glass bottle?

I have a 750ml glass bottle of rum. I'm planning on buying some cheap rum over the weekends to accrue more bottles. Possibly some jam jars as well. I initially thought of using 2 liter coke bottles. After speaking with a friend, I decided against plastic bottles because the fermentation lowers the pH of the liquid and I was worried about the acidic liquid reacting with the plastic (which is likely not BPA free).

How big a batch do you plan?

I'm aiming for 2 liters every week. I hope to keep it in the fermenters for two weeks which I hope is enough time to make alcohol - I might add a few raisins (Craig tube idea) to act as a yeast nutrient and speed up the process.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Beer at roughly pH 4.2 (give or take a bit) is nowhere near as acidic as Pepsi or Coca-Cola at roughly pH 2.5 (from memory).

10^-2.5/10^-4.2 = 50.12

pH 2.5 is 50 times more acidic than pH 4.2

 

[eric19312]

are you going to use airlocks?

Can't you find something like this?
https://www.amazon.in/Home-Brew-Ohi...airlock&qid=1560795926&s=kitchen&sr=1-1-fkmr0

To make a liter a week you could make a gallon once a month. Get 2 or 3 of these and start a new batch every two weeks. That way you can let the beer finish all the way in this jug before bottling. This jug will be pretty easy to clean and easy to tell if you got it clean or not.

You are planning to bottle this right? Siphon into bottles, add a measured amount of sugar, cap the bottles, allow them to carb up and then drinking them about 2-4 weeks after bottling....at least 2-4 weeks.

Not just drinking it right out of the fermenting bottle as soon as it seems to be more or less done? If you are planning to consume directly from the container I think those plastic soda bottles will be the way to go. I've never done that but can see how it could work.

 

[Stand]

Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but have you read an intro to brewing like How to Brew by John Palmer?

 

[Ian DSouza]

Beer at roughly pH 4.2 (give or take a bit) is nowhere near as acidic as Pepsi or Coca-Cola at roughly pH 2.5 (from memory).

10^-2.5/10^-4.2 = 50.12

pH 2.5 is 50 times more acidic than pH 4.2

Yeah, the plastic thing is a bit of a paranoia on my part.

are you going to use airlocks?

Can't you find something like this?
https://www.amazon.in/Home-Brew-Ohi...airlock&qid=1560795926&s=kitchen&sr=1-1-fkmr0

To make a liter a week you could make a gallon once a month. Get 2 or 3 of these and start a new batch every two weeks. That way you can let the beer finish all the way in this jug before bottling. This jug will be pretty easy to clean and easy to tell if you got it clean or not.

You are planning to bottle this right? Siphon into bottles, add a measured amount of sugar, cap the bottles, allow them to carb up and then drinking them about 2-4 weeks after bottling....at least 2-4 weeks.

Not just drinking it right out of the fermenting bottle as soon as it seems to be more or less done? If you are planning to consume directly from the container I think those plastic soda bottles will be the way to go. I've never done that but can see how it could work.

I have thought about this previously. The main issue for me (and it's complicated) is the space consideration which is why I decided on smaller bottles. I haven't yet thought about the bottling aspect. I don't know how I'm going to fizz it up without putting it into those plastic soda bottles. At the end, I might transfer to a plastic bottle for a couple of days before drinking it.

Maybe I should have asked this earlier, but have you read an intro to brewing like How to Brew by John Palmer?

I will check this out. Thanks.

 

[Stand]

You could carbonate in plastic soda bottles. They will hold pressure, but you can't really reseal them very well because beer is super sensitive to oxygen.

It isn't absolutely necessary to read a book on this to have it figured out, but you will have a much better time of it if you have the whole process in front of you. I hate when people get discouraged after their first brew day.

Cheers!

 

[kh54s10]

I would look into brewing larger batches. Brewing a liter or even two at a time seems like a lot of trouble for little reward. I would do a minimum of a gallon, (I do a minimum of 3 gallons at a time) ferment as a whole then transfer to a bottling bucket or possibly straight to 12 ounce bottles with a carbonation tab, or Domino Dot sugar tab if those are available. You could also measure out sugar, but that is tedious and inaccurate.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Given 90 degree F. temperatures, perhaps one of the Kveik yeasts should be considered.

 

[Stand]

That's a great idea, but I doubt it would be anything like what he was shooting for.

Belgian Trippel is tough starter beer.

 

[Ian DSouza]

It's not my recipe, but I've done it and it's good. A place to start

ProMash Recipe Printout
Recipe : La Fin de la Fin (LF)
Version 2.1 09/01/2003

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------
18-C Strong Belgian Ale, Belgian Strong Golden Ale
Min OG: 1.065 Max OG: 1.080
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 35
Min Clr: 4 Max Clr: 6 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------
Batch Size (GAL): 5.25 Wort Size (GAL): 5.25
Total Grain (LBS): 14.00
Anticipated OG: 1.0786 Plato: 19.01
Anticipated SRM: 5.1
Anticipated IBU: 23.9
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------
Evaporation Rate: 1.30 Gallons Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 6.88 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.0610 SG 14.97 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------
Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Tinseth
Tinseth Concentration Factor: 1.19
Additional Utilization Used For Pellet Hops: 5 %

Grain/Extract/Sugar
% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
71.4 10.00 lbs. Pilsener Belgium 1.0370 2
10.7 1.50 lbs. Wheat Malt Germany 1.0390 2
3.6 0.50 lbs. Aromatic Malt Belgium 1.0360 22
14.3 2.00 lbs. candi sugar 1.0390 0
Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.

Hops
Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 16.0 60 min.
0.75 oz. Styrian Goldings Pellet 5.25 8.4 25 min.

Extras
Amount Name Type Time
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.00 Tsp Irish Moss Fining 15 Min.(boil)
2.00 Tsp Fresh Ground Coriander Seed Spice 10 Min.(boil)
1.00 Tbsp Fresh Grated Orange Zest Spice 0 Min.(boil)

Yeast
-----
WYeast 3864 Canadian/Belgian

Mash Schedule
-------------
Mash Type: Single Step
Qts Water Per LBS Grain: 1.25 Total Qts: 15.00
Saccharification Rest Temp : 150 Time: 90
Mash-out Rest Temp : 168 Time: 10
Sparge Temp : 170 Time: 45

Fermentation
------------
Primary Fermentation: 10 days at 75 F
Secondary Fermentation: 21 days at 70 F
Anticipated F.G.: 1.011
Anticipated Apparent Attenuation: 85.2 percent
Anticipated Alcohol by Volume: 9.0 percent
Anticipated Alcohol by Weight: 7.0 percent

Carbonation
-----------
Desired Carbonation: 3.5 volumes CO2
Priming Agent: 7.1 oz. (202 grams) corn sugar

I'm using this recipe and replacing all the grains with dry malt extract. How long would you suggest boiling the DME before fermentation? Also, does it need to be a simmer or a strong boil?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Hop IBU's are impacted by wort density, so from that perspective the DME should experience a 60 minute boil.

 

[Stand]

That looks like a nice recipe.

Isn't it triple?

 

[Ian DSouza]

I've almost finished my first (beer) brew day. So, I had minimal ingredients - DME, Fuggles hops, coriander powder and orange zest. I am waiting for the finished product to cool down before I pitch my Belgian Abbey yeast and yeast nutirent (Ammonium phosphate and Zinc). I went lighter on the hops than what the recipe asked for because I was worried about going overboard on the bitterness. At the moment, it has a fairly bright taste of orange. I like it but hope the fermentation process will dampen it out a bit.

 

[kh54s10]

I've almost finished my first (beer) brew day. So, I had minimal ingredients - DME, Fuggles hops, coriander powder and orange zest. I am waiting for the finished product to cool down before I pitch my Belgian Abbey yeast and yeast nutirent (Ammonium phosphate and Zinc). At the moment, it has a fairly bright taste of orange. I like it but hope the fermentation process will dampen it out a bit.

Unless you used a huge amount of orange zest, I would imagine the flavor will "dampen". Un-fermented wort will always taste a lot different than a finished beer. Much stronger in flavors.

 

[Ian DSouza]

I think I may have run into a issue. There is a white residue at the bottom of (each of) my primary fermenters. It's been nearly four days since I put the wort in the fermenter. I did add a tiny pinch of ammonium phosphate and zinc (as yeast nutrient) on the first day. The initially few days saw a lot of bubbles in the wort. However, today the bubbles have decreased drastically and I wonder if the yeast has already flocculated. Unfortunately, I don't have a hydrometer with me to take a gravity reading. Is it possible for the yeast (Belgian abbey) to finish its job in four days?

The only two things that come to my mind that could change this: 1) Add more sugar to see if the yeast resumes the fermenting. 2) Add more yeast nutrient.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Is it even possible for the yeast (Belgian abbey) to finish its job in four days?

Yes, and given your 90 degree temperatures and lack of temperature control it is even more likely, but give it several more days (at least) for the yeast to clean up after themselves. You really need a hydrometer.

 

[Ian DSouza]

given your 90 degree temperatures and lack of temperature control it

Regarding the temperature.. During the day, I had the fermenters sitting in front of a table fan. I'm not sure how much that helped though.

 

[kh54s10]

That looks totally normal and the four days is to be expected at that temperature. If you add sugar any fermentation will just be fermenting that addition. Nutrient will do nothing if the fermentation is finished.