Advice on getting grav up without volume

[lostboysbrew]

Ok, here is the deal......

Last year we brewed what we like to call a "Quad IPA". We took our IIPA recipe, double the ingredients and put it in the same volume (10 gal.). Our goal was a 20% monster, and we hit 18.7%, not bad for our first try. We just started round 2.

We just pitched champagne yeast after a week with our normal Cal Ale Yeast. We intend to get a starter today with WLP 099, Super Hig Grav yeast and have it ready to pitch later this week. But we need to feed it.

We are looking for a way to get the gravity up without adding much volume. If we add honey or corn syrup, whats the minium amount of water to boil it with?? Obviously the more water use, the more diluted it becomes. We don't want to use DME because of the unfermentables.

Anyone have any ideas for us??? We really want to get this one to 20%!

 

[rycov]

you don't have to boil honey, just put it right in. (also i guess you could just use sugar, but probably not what your going for)

 

[o4_srt]

Just add corn sugar to your boil, no extra water needed

 

[lostboysbrew]

Just add corn sugar to your boil, no extra water needed

Its already been fermenting for a week.......we need to add more to the fermentation when we pitch the WLP099 so there isnt a boil.........that sucker needs food!

Sugar is an idea too, dont want to go with to much of that though as we don't want it to become to dry......

Can corn syrup just be added to the fermenter or does it need to be boiled.....

in the event of sugar being used...how much sugar can be dissolved into a gallon of boiling water????

 

[o4_srt]

Its already been fermenting for a week.......we need to add more to the fermentation when we pitch the WLP099 so there isnt a boil.........that sucker needs food!

Sugar is an idea too, dont want to go with to much of that though as we don't want it to become to dry......

Can corn syrup just be added to the fermenter or does it need to be boiled.....

in the event of sugar being used...how much sugar can be dissolved into a gallon of boiling water????

AFAIK, corn syrup is nothing more than corn sugar in liquid form. I would at least pasteurize it before use.

As far as how much sugar can be boiled in a gallon of water? A ton.

In Sam Calagione's "Extreme Brews," there is a recipe for dema-goddess ale. It's target ABV is 14-16%. A little lower than what you are going for, but he has a "sugaring schedule" with the recipe.

Starting on day 8, 1 ounce of pure cane sugar is added.
Day 9: 1 ounce of demerara sugar

he continues this alternating schedule until day 13, where he racks to secondary, and adds distillers yeast, and another ounce of pure cane sugar.

Then he continues on with the schedule until day 17.

I would imagine that adding the sugar all at once could cause unintended flavors, for instance, esters and fusel alcohols. They are generally created when yeast is underpitched (and fermentation temp is a bit on the warm side), and by adding a ton of fermentables, the yeast would first need to multiply by the billions before going to work.

I would also imagine that continuing this schedule for a period longer than 17 days would result in a higher ABV.


Here is what he has to say: "...Using too much of these sugars will make a beer overly dry, cidery, hot (boozy with no body). To reduce this effect, high quality demerara sugar will be added during the initial boil as well as intermittently during fermentation to keep the body of the beer up and the dryness down." (Calagione, Extreme Brews, pg 126).

He also recommends aerating again right before pitching the distillers yeast, using an air pump to saturate the beer with oxygen.



I've had Dogfish Head's Fort (18% ABV), and it tasted more like a liquor than beer. I really did not care for it, you definitely could not drink more than a glass at a time. It was very dry, and burned when you drank it. Pushing the limit is fun and all, but don't push it too far, you'll end up with something no one wants to drink.

 

[lostboysbrew]

I've had Dogfish Head's Fort (18% ABV), and it tasted more like a liquor than beer. I really did not care for it, you definitely could not drink more than a glass at a time. It was very dry, and burned when you drank it. Pushing the limit is fun and all, but don't push it too far, you'll end up with something no one wants to drink.

Agreed!! Our last attempt actually finished at 1.034 so it was sweet enough to mask the burn. It drank incredibly smooth as long as it was cold. Many people enjoyed it, especially the "non-beer" drinkers b/c of the sweetness.

The sugar he was adding to the fermentation, was he just dropping it in?? Or was he boiling it and adding it???

And only ounces were added??? We would have to do that for months to get where we needed to be.

I would imagine that adding the sugar all at once could cause unintended flavors, for instance, esters and fusel alcohols. They are generally created when yeast is underpitched (and fermentation temp is a bit on the warm side), and by adding a ton of fermentables, the yeast would first need to multiply by the billions before going to work.

As for this....the WLP099 is going into less than a half gallon starter of 1.100 and then pitched after 2 or 3 days so that its at its peak.......so we planned on adding a bunch of sugars with it at this time so that it can continue on its crazy eating ways......

I like the idea of adding those sugars if we could add them without boiling them first, anything to add gravity without increasing volume b/c then those numbers diminish exponentially.....

Another thought was icing it, but that just seems like no fun at all and we want to avoid this at all costs........

 

[o4_srt]

Agreed!! Our last attempt actually finished at 1.034 so it was sweet enough to mask the burn. It drank incredibly smooth as long as it was cold. Many people enjoyed it, especially the "non-beer" drinkers b/c of the sweetness.

The sugar he was adding to the fermentation, was he just dropping it in?? Or was he boiling it and adding it???

And only ounces were added??? We would have to do that for months to get where we needed to be.



As for this....the WLP099 is going into less than a half gallon starter of 1.100 and then pitched after 2 or 3 days so that its at its peak.......so we planned on adding a bunch of sugars with it at this time so that it can continue on its crazy eating ways......

I like the idea of adding those sugars if we could add them without boiling them first, anything to add gravity without increasing volume b/c then those numbers diminish exponentially.....

Another thought was icing it, but that just seems like no fun at all and we want to avoid this at all costs........

the book didn't mention boiling first, alcohol is an antibiotic, and at the levels you are shooting for, it would have to be one helluva bacteria to survive.

at 2 weeks he raises the alcohol content to 14-18%, another 2 weeks with small additions would easily put you 20%+. I personally would feel more comfortable adding many small additions, but that's the great thing about this hobby, everyone brews differently. I'd be curious to know if there are any noticeable differences between gradual sugar additions, and one massive addition.

One thing to mention, an extended aging period after fermentation could help cut down the alcohol heat. Maybe leave it sit in secondary for 2 months or so?

 

[lostboysbrew]

at 2 weeks he raises the alcohol content to 14-18%, another 2 weeks with small additions would easily put you 20%+. I personally would feel more comfortable adding many small additions, but that's the great thing about this hobby, everyone brews differently. I'd be curious to know if there are any noticeable differences between gradual sugar additions, and one massive addition.

I agree on the small additions. Just doing the math, it doesnt make sense though......if a pound is only 5 points into 10 gallons......1 oz is about half a point.......

1 oz just doesnt seem right....how big was his batch???

 

[o4_srt]

I agree on the small additions. Just doing the math, it doesnt make sense though......if a pound is only 5 points into 10 gallons......1 oz is about half a point.......

1 oz just doesnt seem right....how big was his batch???

Ah, the batch is for 5g, just use 2 oz additions.

 

[lostboysbrew]

Ah, the batch is for 5g, just use 2 oz additions.

Wanted to update you, especially since you were helping out. Actually had that book in library (all beer books )

Since we were looking for sooo much more than a few percent, we did some calcs, and after the champagne yeast got us down under 1.020 which rounded us out around 12% we pitched a Super High Grav w/ a 1.100 starter. Added 2 lbs of turbinado sugar with it, along with 2 lbs of pure sugar cane 2 days later and 2 more lbs 2 days following. Added another 1lb of turbinado yesterday and it is still going crazy.....about 2 inches of krausen on top. According to our calcs we should be sitting around 16%.

Going to oxgenate soon and add more sugars.....our goal is to get 5 more lbs in to finish around 18.3% then since we missed up front we are gunna have to ice it if we wanna get to 20% We might just let it be, let it settle out and condition for a few months and retry again at a later date, start off a little better than 1.107, haha damn efficiency.....thats another thread I need to start, to figure out that issue......

Thanks again for your help