Adjusting ABV

[BikerMatt]

The mobile browser doesn't seem to have a search feature (or I'm too ham fisted to find it) so decided to make a new thread.

I'm brewing a coopers extract kit, possibly a lager or a real ale and was thinking if I could SLIGHTLY amp up the volts of the finished product but cannot find answers to my questions. I'm thinking of using a 500g pack of muntons light spraymalt and then dextrose for the rest but don't know if I should add 500g of that too if the recipe calls for a 1kg. If I was to add a little extra sugar in there would it automatically mean higher ABV or would it just make the outcome sweet (can the yeast eat the added sugar or would I also need more yeast than the dry pack that's provided with the tin)

I'm not looking to make some horrible get-smacked-quick-F-the-taste monster but would like the beer to have slightly more umph, say no more than max 7%, 6-6,5 would be ideal.

So the questions are:

Should I?
Will it produce off flavors?
Will it taste like there's cheap booze in it like some high ABV cheap stuff?
How much extra sugar should I add for a light amp up?
Am I gonna need extra yeast?

 

[FatDragon]

The yeast will do fine; it could potentially give off-flavors if it's really strong, but I'd expect it to come out alright.

Adding dextrose will give you more booze but thin and dry out the beer. For that reason, a recipe that's already calling for dextrose probably wouldn't be optimal with further added dextrose; you'd be better to use more malt extract to strengthen the beer rather than dextrose or another simple sugar.

 

[BikerMatt]

I was thinking the spraymalt would combat that.

What if instead of 23l id make the batch saay 18l with the same 1kg of sugar(s). Just a noobie experimenting so I'd rather make a smaller batch of good beer than having to throw a lot to the drain. If I'm gonna use the half kilo of spraymalt should I rather use dextrose or regular table sugar?

 

[Sadu]

I have experimented a bit with the can and kilo kits. IMO at 1kg of dextrose/simple sugar as per the recipe you are already past the point where it is making the beer taste worse. Adding spraymalt to increase abv is a great idea, but to get to 6% it starts getting expensive and the beer becomes unbalanced since it was designed for 4%. You can try decreasing the volume a bit as you say - but then you are increasing the ratio of bittering hops and care must be taken there. You could try adding the 500g of spraymalt and brew 19 litres instead of 23.
The best kit beer I ever made was a 4% Munich lager using their brew enhancer and fresh us-05 yeast fermented at 18c. A well made kit can taste very good at 4%. Personally I wouldn't bother trying to get 6-7% out of a coopers kit, wait until you go all grain and you can go as high as you like very cheaply.

 

[BikerMatt]

Gotcha. Thanks. So it's gonna be 1/2kg muntons light, 1/2kg dextrose, 19liters and we'll see what comes out. Hopefully beer

Probly gonna have to wait a bit to go full grain, in a bit of a financial squeeze ATM so all bigger acquisitions are currently on hold. Hopefully will ease up during spring.

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

If you want to bring the ABV up with spray malt go right ahead. Spray malt will ferment nicely but still leave a little body. If on the other hand you use sugar, every bit of that will ferment into alcohol and dry out your beer. Sugar will not leave any sweetness at all.

 

[BikerMatt]

Wort cooling with the above mentioned combo. Tastest pretty darn sweet, but malty and has a sharp hoppy sting. I'm expecting great things from this one as that's how I like my lagers. OG 1.047.

 

[Sadu]

Cool, 1.047 is about where you want to be. Next thing to watch is your fermentation temperature which is as or more important as the recipe. I recommend 18c for these.

 

[BikerMatt]

At 21-22c ambient ATM, gonna dial the wall heater down a little then. Can probly switch it off altogether.

 

[FatDragon]

Probly gonna have to wait a bit to go full grain, in a bit of a financial squeeze ATM so all bigger acquisitions are currently on hold. Hopefully will ease up during spring.

If you can get a big, cheap pot, a mesh bag (for BIAB), and assuming your stovetop can get 20+ liters to a boil, all-grain can easily be done cheaper than extract brewing. Grain is a lot cheaper than extract, so if you minimize the equipment cost you'll be saving money after just a couple batches.

 

[BikerMatt]

Yea well I have the rather pleasant problem ATM of having 41 liters of beer in the making so probly gotta go through some of those before even planning to make more I have a hotplate but seriously I doubt it's ability to boil enough water so most probly going to buy a gas burner ring since I have a 10kg bottle with nothing to use it after removing the gas piping from my smoker bbq and going back to wood. We'll see what the future brings, right now the next purchase I have to make is more bottles...

 

[FatDragon]

Yea well I have the rather pleasant problem ATM of having 41 liters of beer in the making so probly gotta go through some of those before even planning to make more I have a hotplate but seriously I doubt it's ability to boil enough water so most probly going to buy a gas burner ring since I have a 10kg bottle with nothing to use it after removing the gas piping from my smoker bbq and going back to wood. We'll see what the future brings, right now the next purchase I have to make is more bottles...

Don't buy bottles! Go to a bar and ask for their empties. Have your friends save their empties for you. Buy a case or two of beer and save the empties yourself. Just don't buy empty bottles. I don't know about where you are, but in most places buying new beer bottles at the homebrew level costs almost as much as buying beer in bottles.

Think of it this way: 98% of the population sees an empty beer bottle and thinks, "garbage". There should be more than enough "garbage" bottles to serve your needs if you just look.

 

[BikerMatt]

The return rate of bottles and cans in finland is something like 80% or more because of the deposit-refund system. 98% of the population here sees "money" when they see empty bottles/cans. And I really don't wanna bottle using 0,33l bottles. I've been storing my 0,5l Shepherd Neame bottles for a while now but only got something like 10 of them cause they cost both sides of 4eur a pop full so not really something to get smacked with. My preferred bottle size for home brews is 0,75l because I can fill up my pint-and-some sized glasses and have a little leftover for the yeast. I can get 0,75l glass bottles with that funny grandpa-style steel wire mechanism cap for 2eur a piece and don't have to buy a capper or caps so that offsets the cost a little. I'm also planning to use the bottles for quite some time so the expense IMO will even out over time. I don't suppose those PET bottles I got with the kit will last for too many rounds anyway...

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

The return rate of bottles and cans in finland is something like 80% or more because of the deposit-refund system. 98% of the population here sees "money" when they see empty bottles/cans. And I really don't wanna bottle using 0,33l bottles. I've been storing my 0,5l Shepherd Neame bottles for a while now but only got something like 10 of them cause they cost both sides of 4eur a pop full so not really something to get smacked with. My preferred bottle size for home brews is 0,75l because I can fill up my pint-and-some sized glasses and have a little leftover for the yeast. I can get 0,75l glass bottles with that funny grandpa-style steel wire mechanism cap for 2eur a piece and don't have to buy a capper or caps so that offsets the cost a little. I'm also planning to use the bottles for quite some time so the expense IMO will even out over time. I don't suppose those PET bottles I got with the kit will last for too many rounds anyway...

Definitely look into bulk bottling with your big bottles and don't be too down on the PET bottles for now. The flip top bottles are not as awesome as one might think. They are super cool looking, but if you don't change the gaskets every batch, expect to lose carbonation. Caps work best and are ridiculously cheap. I just bought 72 caps for $1.99 and that was at a premium as an impulse buy because it was what I wanted and super convenient. If I had waited and purchased online it would have been half that, a little over a penny a cap. Just use what you can until you can collect enough bottles. Even if you just drink 3 bottles of beer a week, you would collect 15 - 18 bottles after 1 batch is finished.

 

[BikerMatt]

Well fuzz... why isn't anything easy

Ok gotta go to the store then and see what beers they even sell in 50cl bottles nowadays, almost all beer is sold in cans today expect imports and specials. The only that comes to mind off the top of my head is Perlenbacher at Lidl and that stuff is bitter AF.
Really hoping my mom would find that ancient but sturdy metal capper she once had so I wouldn't have to buy that flimsy plastic emily everyone's saying bad things about...

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

It's tough work, but for a good cause. Make sure you don't get twist offs. Those guys don't work with cappers. My plastic capper hasn't been perfect, but has done the job. Soldier on brother. If you can manage a sixer a week. You can bottle two cases in just eight weeks! :rockin:

 

[BikerMatt]

Way off the original topic but since we started...

I took a tour on the local supermarkets yesterday, including Lidl. Apart from the imports and craft brewery specials no half liter bottles what-so-frikkin-ever. Even Perlenbacher at Lidl is in 0,33l glass bottle and 0,5l can now. So I got little choice but to splurge 60 euros on 30 0,74l Coopers PET bottles. Frustrating but then again it does offset the cost a little (for now) to not have to buy the capping machine (still hoping we'd find that old one mom has stored away somewhere)

Going to continue saving my Shepherd Neame bottles but as said @4e/bottle not gonna collect closer to 40 of them anytime soon... (current count 12 empty 2 full)

 

[FatDragon]

The return rate of bottles and cans in finland is something like 80% or more because of the deposit-refund system. 98% of the population here sees "money" when they see empty bottles/cans. And I really don't wanna bottle using 0,33l bottles. I've been storing my 0,5l Shepherd Neame bottles for a while now but only got something like 10 of them cause they cost both sides of 4eur a pop full so not really something to get smacked with. My preferred bottle size for home brews is 0,75l because I can fill up my pint-and-some sized glasses and have a little leftover for the yeast. I can get 0,75l glass bottles with that funny grandpa-style steel wire mechanism cap for 2eur a piece and don't have to buy a capper or caps so that offsets the cost a little. I'm also planning to use the bottles for quite some time so the expense IMO will even out over time. I don't suppose those PET bottles I got with the kit will last for too many rounds anyway...

A high return rate works well for you: it means people aren't throwing their bottles away. All you have to do is give them the return value for their bottles. Cheaper than buying bottles for you, less work than returning the bottles for them. It's up to you, of course, but buying bottles for €2 each seems like a waste on your limited budget.

 

[Sadu]

A high return rate works well for you: it means people aren't throwing their bottles away. All you have to do is give them the return value for their bottles. Cheaper than buying bottles for you, less work than returning the bottles for them. It's up to you, of course, but buying bottles for €2 each seems like a waste on your limited budget.

This. Put an ad on the local Facebook group or paper saying you will pay 30c (or whatever a bit more than the recycling value is) a bottle for brown crown cap 500ml craft bottles with no embossing. Personally I would rather learn how to blow glass myself than pay 2 euro a bottle for plastic.

 

[BikerMatt]

Lol true

I'll have a look if the sales section of the finnish HBT has any. But as stated half liter glass bottles are a rarity these days. I'm not OCD per se but do want all my bottles to be uniform. At least per batch.

 

[BikerMatt]

Went to a shop today to get a new headlight bulb for my car and stumbled upon an offer I couldn't pass. I really didn't want to buy 33cl bottles but two 24-cases for 33.70 (cases included) was too cheap to leave behind. Though one is 2.7% and one is 4.7% but I'll sip through the watered ones during the week or sth... So that'll give me what, 16 liters and the rest I have in 75cl PET bottles.

Crap now I need the capper thingy.

 

[BikerMatt]

A little follow up on this one in case someone tries to find info about it later.

So this brew went into the fermenter at 23.1.2017 so it has been bubbling away for 14 days now. I took the first gravity reading today as I`m planning to hopefully bottle this up the coming weekend. Upon lifting the lid it was clear the wort is still fermenting as I got a hefty dose of carb on my face, enough to tingle in my nose. The liquid has started to clear up and get darker but is still somewhat murky. Gravity reading ATM shows 1.008=5.119% so it should have pretty much spot on what ABV I`m shooting for when it`s finished. What TOTALLY and completely got me off guard was a very distinctive smell AND taste of dry green apple cider! Like not kinda not sorta, EXACTLY like green apples! Whatthe... is that just some byproduct of the yeast that`s gonna clean up or am I gonna have a green apple beer lol

 

[BikerMatt]

^ studied this myself. Acetaldehyde. By-product of fermentation, quite common for some yeast strains, indicating incomplete fermentation. should go away by itself

 

[BikerMatt]

Gonna bottle this weekend. Meter's showing 1.007 = 5.25, the green apple taste is completely gone but has been replaced with a strong sour taste. I fear the beer has been oxidized since the fermentor is not sealed but breathes past the lid. Gonna bottle it anyway and see if it goes away. Deffy gonna repurpose this fermenter to a bottling bucket after this.

Just makes me wonder how the heck can it be oxidised? I have had to move the bucket a few times but have been very careful not to slosh it around, and have only opened the lid to take gravity measurements so there should have been enough co2 to drive the oxygen out. What do you think when I take a sample from the spigot and it tastes sour as well should I even bother bottling? I might be mixing "sour" with just "dry" and am curious if it can go away during bottle conditioning but frankly bottling two cases is a bit of a chore...

 

[bolus14]

Not going to say yours is the same as what happened to me, but I had the same thing in a Vanilla Porter. Green apple taste/sour never faded, but never got worse from what it was when I bottled. I ended up finding a couple of gouges in my fermenting bucket that must have harbored something wild.

Hope yours cleans up and ends up tasting the way it should.

 

[BikerMatt]

Welp, I got the bottles washed and the coopers tin came with my starter kit so the only possible losses are half a bag of caps, 100g of sugar and a half kilo bag of spraymalt. I can't brew for the next three weeks anyway so the batch will have five to six weeks to mature. If it's still just as sour as it was I'm just gonna pour em down the drain, brew something better and refill. If nothing else at least I'm getting practice on capping. Which reminds me I gotta oil the capper today, it's sat in my moms closet unused for the past 20 some years!

 

[AZCoolerBrewer]

Glad to here you found your capper. You can't pour the first batch down the drain. If they are really that bad the drink every last one until it is etched in your mind how bad it is. After that, there's no way to go but up buddy. Trust me, i gets better.

 

[BikerMatt]

Oldskool baby lil stiff but seems to be in full working order.

That's actually my second batch, the first was a coopers amber ale that for reasons unknown to me stopped fermenting short and was left 3.28%. I've been slowly sipping it away, four weeks in the bottles now, still only very slightly carbed and no head but it's actually starting to taste pretty good. At this rate the final two of the 15 I got left will actually fully mature

Yea we'll see what comes out of this. As said all I can really lose is time and if that time is spent learning then it's not lost at all.

 

[BikerMatt]

FG 1.007 before adding priming sugar. going to bottles in a minute after it's settled for a while. It's sour... but susprisingly it's not AS sour as it was when I first sampled it... gonna give this a fighting chance.