Adjust sparge water ph?

[YanknOnion]

Sorry if this is a repeated question, but I couldn't find it. I have gotten my strike water chemistry down to hit target mash PH using water report and ez spreadsheet. Question is, what am I doing if my additions are to strike water only while sparge water stays at it's original 8.3 ph? If I adjust spreadsheet additions to add to sparge as well as strike water to balance in spreadsheet, I don't hit target ph in mash. How critical is it to bring (fly) sparge water ph down?

 

[ajdelange]

You must be doing something wrong. As sparging takes place after mashing is complete it is quite clear that an adjustment made to sparge water will have no effect on mash pH.

The broader question is as to the effects of untreated sparge water. If the alkalinity of the sparge water is high it will pull the pH of the runoff, towards the end, high with possible extraction of tannins for the grain husks. Thus people with high water alkalinity neutralize it with acid before using it for sparging. Adding enough acid to bring sparge water pH to mash pH (5.4 or so) effectively zeroes out the alkalinity and insures that you are protected against phenol extraction.

 

[YanknOnion]

I did not articulate my question very well. I was saying that if I split my water additions in the spreadsheet, I would be taking some away from the strike water and leaving mash ph too high. You still found a way to answer my question, though as I understand now problems with tannin extraction due to high ph in sparge water. I will try adding lactic acid to sparge water and leaving that info out of spreadsheet. Thanks for the help, cheers!

 

[beersk]

You must be doing something wrong. As sparging takes place after mashing is complete it is quite clear that an adjustment made to sparge water will have no effect on mash pH.

The broader question is as to the effects of untreated sparge water. If the alkalinity of the sparge water is high it will pull the pH of the runoff, towards the end, high with possible extraction of tannins for the grain husks. Thus people with high water alkalinity neutralize it with acid before using it for sparging. Adding enough acid to bring sparge water pH to mash pH (5.4 or so) effectively zeroes out the alkalinity and insures that you are protected against phenol extraction.

AJ, is there ever a need to acidify sparge water if using RO?

 

[ajdelange]

No. Of course if you plan to add acid to the kettle you could add it to the sparge water but I don't see any point in doing that as some of it will be held up in the grain bed.

 

[beersk]

No. Of course if you plan to add acid to the kettle you could add it to the sparge water but I don't see any point in doing that as some of it will be held up in the grain bed.

When would there be a need to add acid to the kettle? Say I'm brewing a helles, if I use acid malt in the mash, there's no need to acidify anything else after that? Bru'n water usually tells me to add 0.5mL phosphoric to the sparge water, and I've been doing that, just wonder if it's not necessary or even detrimental in some small way.

 

[ajdelange]

Say you do the calculator thing and it tells you to add x amount of sauermalz or lactic and you do that and get a mash pH of 5.5 which creeps up to 5.6. Your a bit on the high end here though most might just go with it. You check kettle pH after an hour of boiling and find it is 5.4. You know a kettle pH of 5 - 5.2 is desirable and so decide to add some acid.

There is much less emphasis on kettle pH here because fortuitously it seems that if you get mash pH OK kettle pH tends to track. Most people don't seem to care much if kettle pH is a bit high as they have never experimented to see whether a beer made with kettle pH 5.2 is better than one made with kettle pH 5.4. Please note that I am in that group. I have never adjusted kettle pH.

 

[beersk]

Thanks, AJ. That's good to know. I don't have a pH meter, so I can't even measure that. That's pretty much the final frontier in my brewing endeavor, getting a pH meter. I'm trying to avoid it.
I usually shoot for mash pH of 5.3 for most styles, especially lighter styles.