Adjusing grain percentages

[brewbush]

I currently use the 5 gallon Braumeister so my grain amount is limited to about 12#. Anytime I have a recipe with more then that in grain weight I have been using less base malt and adding DME. I use beersmith so I adjust to make sure the OG is similar. I add DME to that start of the boil, no late additions.

However I have also noticed occasionally I am getting a final product that occasionally tend to have a bit more sweetness then I like. I know there are no issues with infection however I am not sure if I have been adjusting the amounts of adjunct grains appropriately.

When a recipe calls for (for example) 14# base grain and I adjust it to 10# with appropriate amount of DME to keep OG the same how do you adjust the other crystal malts, etc.. Would you keep the amounts the same or would you reduce the other grains amount to keep them at the same PERCENTAGE as the original recipe based on the NEW 2row amount?

Original recipe 10# 2 row and 1# 60L
Scale to 8#2row and 0.8# 60L and 1# DME ??
Above is a very rough example.

For hops I have not been altering their amounts, they seem fine, plus I boil the DME the entire boil so gravity is not an issue.

Any suggestions?

 

[CGish]

I currently use the 5 gallon Braumeister so my grain amount is limited to about 12#. Anytime I have a recipe with more then that in grain weight I have been using less base malt and adding DME. I use beersmith so I adjust to make sure the OG is similar. I add DME to that start of the boil, no late additions.

However I have also noticed occasionally I am getting a final product that occasionally tend to have a bit more sweetness then I like. I know there are no issues with infection however I am not sure if I have been adjusting the amounts of adjunct grains appropriately.

When a recipe calls for (for example) 14# base grain and I adjust it to 10# with appropriate amount of DME to keep OG the same how do you adjust the other crystal malts, etc.. Would you keep the amounts the same or would you reduce the other grains amount to keep them at the same PERCENTAGE as the original recipe based on the NEW 2row amount?

Original recipe 10# 2 row and 1# 60L
Scale to 8#2row and 0.8# 60L and 1# DME ??
Above is a very rough example.

For hops I have not been altering their amounts, they seem fine, plus I boil the DME the entire boil so gravity is not an issue.

Any suggestions?

I think you are on the right track reducing the base grain. I would not change any of the specialty grains. However, I would not add the DME until right at the end of the boil - the last ten minutes or so. It is already cooked, so you only need to mix and sanitize it. Part of your sweetness problem could be the full boil of the DME.

 

[Yooper]

Light DME (which I assume you are using, or extra light) has carapils in it I believe. I'd double check your brand to see what is in there, and then reduce the light crystal malt in the recipe by 10% or so and see if that helps.

 

[brewbush]

I think you are on the right track reducing the base grain. I would not change any of the specialty grains. However, I would not add the DME until right at the end of the boil - the last ten minutes or so. It is already cooked, so you only need to mix and sanitize it. Part of your sweetness problem could be the full boil of the DME.

So you would keep all the specialty grains the same amounts and only reduce the 2row/pilsner base malt, and then add DME at the end.

I can try that.

Also, would you keep the hop amounts the same for bittering/late additions or would you adjust those since the gravity of the majority of the boil would be different? If you would adjust them, howso?

 

[CGish]

So you would keep all the specialty grains the same amounts and only reduce the 2row/pilsner base malt, and then add DME at the end.

I can try that.

Also, would you keep the hop amounts the same for bittering/late additions or would you adjust those since the gravity of the majority of the boil would be different? If you would adjust them, howso?

No, I would not adjust the hop additions. They are based on your final gravity and balance, not on the boil gravity.

Make note of what Yooper said above. Check your DME and adjust your specialty grains based on your DME blend. I don't use DME much and had forgotten that it is a blend.

On a semi-related note -
A bit of personal advice that has improved my brewing and knowledge - when Yooper speaks (writes) - I would recommend listening. She is one of a very short list of people whose instructions and advice I take at face value.

 

[Owly055]

DME inherently has more unfermentables than you may get mashing grain.... depending on your mash temp. You have a couple of options. One is to mash at a low temperature. The other is to use both DME and sugar to achieve the desired sweetness. Sugar will not leave any residual sweetness. Adding sugar on top of other fermentables does NOT dry a beer out as people are fond of saying, but subbing sugar for DME or grain will result in a less sweet beer.


Here is an example using Brewer's friend. The OG and SRM come out the same.

Original:

OG 1.085
SRM 8.44

16 pounds of two row
1 pound CR 40

Conversion example:

OG 1.085
SRM 8.44

11 pounds 2 row
1 pound CR 40

and:

2.25 pounds extra light DME
14.4 ounces cane sugar

or:

14.4 ounces amber DME
33.6 ounces cane sugar


Juggle the DME and sugar to maintain the same SRM and OG. I can't tell you what the perceived sweetness will be....... Experience will tell. Perhaps reducing mash temp to 148 and using the first substitution will get you where you want to be..... or perhaps it will be too dry, and you might then mash at 152 using that substitution, or perhaps it will be too sweet still, and you can try the second substitution mashing at 152. If still too sweet try the second substitution and drop mash temp to 148........ etc.

It's all pretty subjective, but after a few alterations you should be able to zero in on what you want. The experience would be invaluable. I would personally play with this by making 4 small brews.... 1 gallon or 2.5 gallon using BIAB. It would be a great research project.

Another alternative might to be adding AG300 fungal amylase to the ferment. AG300 will convert at fermentation temps, and can convert longer chain sugars. I haven't tried it yet in this application, but it's claimed that it will dry a beer out. Split a batch into two fermenters, and add AG300 to one..........

I may try the latter method myself just to see what happens, I love to experiment, and I just got a half liter of AG300, which I frequently use in the mash to speed up conversion.

H.W.

 

[brewbush]

No, I would not adjust the hop additions. They are based on your final gravity and balance, not on the boil gravity.

Make note of what Yooper said above. Check your DME and adjust your specialty grains based on your DME blend. I don't use DME much and had forgotten that it is a blend.

On a semi-related note -
A bit of personal advice that has improved my brewing and knowledge - when Yooper speaks (writes) - I would recommend listening. She is one of a very short list of people whose instructions and advice I take at face value.

Thanks a lot for everyones help. I don't think I ever realized the DME had adjuncts in it and may in fact be the culprit.

 

[Yooper]

Thanks a lot for everyones help. I don't think I ever realized the DME had adjuncts in it and may in fact be the culprit.

No, I'm certain it doesn't have adjuncts in it but it does have specialty malts like carapils.