Additives for cider

[killian]

Campden Tablets - What is the best way to use Campden tablets?
For most basic uses, simply crush the required number of tablets between two metal spoons or for larger numbers, use a pestle and mortar. Stir the resultant powder into the juice / cider / etc. These tablets can take a long time to dissolve, so crushing them makes their effect much more immediate. The crushed powder can also be easier to 'measure' for example, if you only required half or three-quarters of one tablet...

(An even better way of measuring and dosing with Sulphite is to make up a 'stock solution'. For full details of this, visit Andrew Lea's website.)

In the pH range 2.5 - 3.0 (very acid juice) you don't need to add any Campden tablets at all

In the pH range 3.0 - 3.3 (acid juice) you typically need 50 ppm SO2 or 1 Campden Tablet per gallon of juice

In the pH range 3.3 - 3.5 (not very acid juice) you typically need 100 ppm SO2 or 2 Campden Tablets per gallon of juice

In the pH range 3.5 - 3.8 (low acid juice) you typically need 150 ppm SO2 or 3 Campden Tablets per gallon of juice

The SO2 / Campden Tablets are added to the juice, allowed to stand overnight, and then a yeast culture is added on the following day. Fermentation should begin within a week or so.

I believe this is for unpasteurized juice.



Pectic Enzyme - used to clear must, if you heat fruit juice too much and it sets the pectin
(makes it hazy). Don't heat it up and you won't need it.

Pectinase - added at the beginning to help clear a pulpy juice

Potassium Sorbate - it looks like this is used to stop fermentation, I'm planning on back sweetening. How much should I need?

Acid Blend - this is used post fermentation to increase tartness

malic acid - a acid derived from apples


I'm working on a cider and I was hoping to get some help with the additives that I'm thinking of using. If you can help with the amounts to use, when to use them and what they are going to do for me.



I plan on editing this post when I get more/better info, thanks.

 

[EvilTOJ]

Unless the juice is fresh from the farm, you don't need the campden tablets. Most juice is already pasteurized, so campden is overkill.

pectic enzyme is for if you heat fruit juice too much and it sets the pectin(makes it hazy). Don't heat it up and you won't need it.

Not sure about the sorbate, there should be instructions that came with it for recommended dosages.

Acid blend is for if it doesn't seem tart enough and it's personal preference. And yes, it's used post fermentation.

 

[gratus fermentatio]

If your juice is already pasturized, forget campden, if not, then it's 1 campden tab/gallon. If the juice is clear & not boiled, you can drop the pectic enzyme, or add it if you want to, just to be certain. I'd forget about using sorbate in a cider, it's more trouble than it's worth. If you're going to carb, you won't want it, if you're bottling still, you don't need it unless you backsweeten with a fermentable sugar. Acid blend might be a good idea, I've added it to cider plenty of times, tannin too; they give it some "bite." Good luck on your cider. Regards, GF.

 

[killian]

does anyone use yeast nutrient, DAP or yeast energizer in a cider?

 

[EvilTOJ]

I've used yeast nutrient and energizer in cider before. I tried it to try and keep the rhino fart smell down, and it sorta worked. It wasn't as pronounced as the last batch I made. I'll try again just to see if it was a fluke or what.

 

[killian]

do I need to use k-meta in conjunction with Potassium sorbate to ensure no re-fermentation? Can I use the sorbate by its self?

 

[Tusch]

I use a combo of the two.

 

[Yooper]

I use a combo of the two.

Exactly. The reason you use a combo of the two (especially in cider) is twofold- first of all, sorbate works better in the presence of sulfites. Secondly, you prevent any chance of MLF- malolactic acid fermentation. MLF is naturally occuring (usually) in grape wines and it gives a softer, smoother wine. (malic acid is converted to softer lactic acid and co2- this reduces acidity in the final wine)

Since apples are mainly malic acid, though, you don't want MLF in your apple wines and ciders. It'll take away the apple flavor, plus if you sorbate and then get MLF, the wine will taste and smell of geraniums. MLF after sorbating will ruin the cider. That's why the sorbate/campden combo. Campden prevents MLF.

 

[giligson]

Just to add to the confusion:

Sulfate is used not only to kill wild yeast but also to prevent oxidation of the juice. It is a matter of taste in apple cider if you would like a super "fresh" profile then add sulfite. If you would like a bit more "mature" fruit taste then don't.

Acid additions in apple juice may be needed based on the blend of apples used to make the juice. Malic acid has a very tart taste. Tartaric a little softer (and will also drop out in cold storage to some extent). Lactic acid has a "softer" taste to it and Citric is like lemon juice.

MLF will not occur if the initial acid conditions are high (low pH) and there is little available sugar - as is often the case in a cider. Red wine often has some residual sugar and less acid and promotes easier growth of MLF bacteria.

Sorbate/Sulfite - lots of info available on this from google and yes: add them together at the end of fermentation/cold stabalization.

Pectinase - added at the beginning to help clear a pulpy juice

Finning agent - if you want a sparklingly clear cider you may want to add something like Bentonite (pretty cheap and effective for apple juice). This can be done before fermentation but is more conventionally done afterwards.

Are you force carbonating? Obviously if you are bottle conditioning then there is little option to back sweeten this unless you want to add a non fermentable sweetner.

 

[killian]

Are you force carbonating? Obviously if you are bottle conditioning then there is little option to back sweeten this unless you want to add a non fermentable sweetner

Yea I'm kegging and force carbing

how much Potassium Sorbate do I need?

I know that back sweetening is just to taste but how much juice will I need? closer to 1qt or 1 gallon?

 

[Tusch]

The potassium sorbate will have directions on the container, I don't remember the dosage off hand for mine. Are you planning on backsweetening with juice? I know those who prime for carbonation with juice end up using about 1/2 gallon per 5 gallon batch, so 1/2 raises their FG by 2 or 3 points. That should give you any idea for how you would need, depending on how much you want to sweeten it. I would think, if you are intending on diluting your alcohol content down a bit, then using juice would be perfect. But if I had kegging abilities, I would use juice concentrate for backsweetening. Stronger sweetening without the diluting effects.

 

[killian]

I have heard that cider will ferment down to lower than 1 is that right? If so I'm starting with an O.G of 1.060 - 1.070 & I 'm not very concerned about the dilution.

 

[Yooper]

I have heard that cider will ferment down to lower than 1 is that right? If so I'm starting with an O.G of 1.060 - 1.070 & I 'm not very concerned about the dilution.

Yes, it can often ferment dry. I've had some finish at .990-.996, depending on OG and yeast strain.

 

[killian]

the sulfer smell that the sulfite will create has me a little concerned with adding it late in fermentation. If I added the sulfite during fermentation would there still be enough present for the sorbate to be effective at the end of fermentation?

 

[killian]

Well I think Im going to add 2 campden tabs or so when I add the sorbate, will that be enough?