Adding pectin enzyme to a perry?

[damiongrimm]

getting ready to make a pear cider/perry. I’m using organic pasteurized pear juice, and plan to add some brown sugar and cane sugar for a caramelized type flavor and to bump the OG a bit(I’m aiming for a high-ABV cider, something in the 10% range so it’ll have to be around 1.100 roughly). I will be using red star blanc champagne yeast and cold crashing it around the 1.020 realm to gain a sweeter cider. I was leafing through some forums for advice and was just told about pectin enzyme and how it encourages the suspended particles to flocculate and clears up the cider. My few questions are, first off will pectin enzyme do the same for a perry/pear cider as it does for apple cider? If it’s intended to aid in flocculation, would some Irish moss or whirlfloc do the same? Or does it not attack the same way?

Also, more of a curiosity due to the fact that this is my first pear cider, is brown sugar/cane sugar the way to go for the flavor and effect, or has someone done this and experienced something a bit better/different?

 

[RPh_Guy]

first off will pectin enzyme do the same for a perry/pear cider as it does for apple cider?

Yep. However perries are notoriously difficult to clear.

If it’s intended to aid in flocculation, would some Irish moss or whirlfloc do the same?

I don't feel qualified to answer this but my guess is no -- these finings are used only for beer because they work better when boiled.
Be patient, it will clear with time. Gelatin and cold crashing or other fining agents used for wine can be helpful if you want it done fast.

is brown sugar/cane sugar the way to go for the flavor and effect, or has someone done this and experienced something a bit better/different?

From CvilleKevin:
"My experience with sugar is that the darker the sugar, the more it imparts a butterscotch taste when it ferments out. Whether or not that's a good thing is a matter of taste and what you are going for. I've never used molasses, but my guess is it will give you a very caramel taste. I used Nottingham for all of the sugar tests that I did - other yeasts may produce different flavors with dark sugar. To my taste, a mix of 2/3 natural cane sugar (light turbinado) and 1/3 dextrose is the most neutral tasting, although plain white cane sugar is pretty close"

Also FYI pear juice does not fully ferment like apple juice. It contains a fair amount of sorbitol, an unfermentable sweetener (and laxative).
Hope this helps.

 

[damiongrimm]

these finings are used only for beer because they work better when boiled.
Be patient, it will clear with time. Gelatin and cold crashing or other fining agents used for wine can be helpful if you want it done fast.

All very good information, thank you! I had planned to cold crash to control the gravity and not let it get too dry anyway, so that may aid me some there, but it sounds like I might just be better off not worrying about it and letting it stay hazy (which I had debated anyway because I like the heavier mouthfeel sometimes). Also that makes a lot of sense about those fining agents working better with boil, I hadn’t even thought about that fact haha.

Hmm, sounds like a decent mixture of molasses and dark brown sugar would give the dessert-like flavors I’m hoping for. Thank you!

 

[RPh_Guy]

Oh one more thing: select a yeast that you will be able to stop by cold crashing

This is a good resource, he always cold crashes to maintain sweetness.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/results-from-juice-yeast-and-sugar-experiments.83060/
I'll see you in about 3 weeks when you finish reading it.

 

[damiongrimm]

Oh damn you’re not kidding haha. Wow what an amazing amount of information, that’s fantastic. Definitely want to try some of these yeast options in the future. For now I already have a few packs of Red Star Premier Blanc which I’ve had good luck cold crashing in the past whenever I’ve used it to restart a stuck fermentation

 

[mwilcox]

pectic enzyme can help, though with pear juice - especially perry pears - there's extra haze from tannin. (pear tannins are different than apple.) Between a small amount of tannin and the effects of the pasteurization process, it may end up taking a while to clear, and may never fully clear. That's OK.
as for the added sugars you should use what you like, however remember the relatively delicate flavor of pear juice before you cover it up with, say, a bunch of molasses.

 

[madscientist451]

I made 20+ gallons of Perry pressed from pears last season and it eventually cleared out on its own. I don't know if Pectic Enzyme will help in your situation or not. If you bump the ABV up you'll probably want to age it for a while anyway.
When I've added sugar to cider (or wine) I usually detect a "hot" rocket fuel alcohol note. Everyone's taste is different, maybe that is OK for you and how much of that flavor you get depends on yeast selection, fermentation temperature and several other factors.
If you really need to bump the ABV up, using frozen apple juice concentrate is an option. You can also add honey, which to my taste, makes a better beverage. Note that when using honey you should also add some yeast nutrient. Search for yeast nutrient in mead for info about that.
Finally, using Champagne yeast and then trying to cold crash it to stop fermentation at 1.020 might work, but if you haven't done that before, a
better plan would be to let it ferment dry and then back sweeten to taste.
I don't like using Champagne yeast in Cider because most of the flavor/aroma seems to get stripped out during fermentation.
But your results may vary.
Here's a HBT link where a "caramel syrup" and the stovetop pasteurization method was used.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/caramel-apple-hard-cider.292770/

 

[venatorscribe]

getting ready to make a pear cider/perry. I’m using organic pasteurized pear juice, and plan to add some brown sugar and cane sugar for a caramelized type flavor and to bump the OG a bit(I’m aiming for a high-ABV cider, something in the 10% range so it’ll have to be around 1.100 roughly). I will be using red star blanc champagne yeast and cold crashing it around the 1.020 realm to gain a sweeter cider. I was leafing through some forums for advice and was just told about pectin enzyme and how it encourages the suspended particles to flocculate and clears up the cider. My few questions are, first off will pectin enzyme do the same for a perry/pear cider as it does for apple cider? If it’s intended to aid in flocculation, would some Irish moss or whirlfloc do the same? Or does it not attack the same way?

Also, more of a curiosity due to the fact that this is my first pear cider, is brown sugar/cane sugar the way to go for the flavor and effect, or has someone done this and experienced something a bit better/different?

Yes. If I were you, I would be using pectinase with your pear juice. You will also find that the pectinase will assist with clearing the wine. I make about 60 litres of pear ciders each year from the pears off my tree. I bottle after five months of bulk storage and only start drinking after eleven or twelve months. The pear cider is crystal clear at that point. Using pectinase in my juice / pulp is no different to using it with your store bought juice. Also - ref above comment from 'madscientist451’ he is quite correct re the process. I similarly ferment to dryness and then back sugar to trigger secondary in the bottle. Have fun. Cheers

 

[Burgar]

Wonder if you could back sweetin using the concentrate from another cider kit?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Wonder if you could back sweetin using the concentrate from another cider kit?

Absolutely