Adding Chocolate Syrup to AHS Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout Clone?

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jbrookeiv

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Hey guys,

I just purchased Samuel Smith Oatmeal Stout Clone from Austin Homebrew Supply. I bought the mini-mash version, and this will be my first time brewing a "real" kit (I've brewed Mr. Beer in the past, but it was crap).

My question is, can I add some gourmet chocolate syrup to bump up the ABV and also add some chocolate flavor? I was thinking of adding a few ozs right before the end of the boil, and a few ozs to the secondary.

This should achieve my goal of a chocolate oatmeal stout, which will hopefully be similar in style to one of my favorite stouts, the Founder's Breakfast Stout. Obviously, it will be missing some of the coffee component and will be a slightly lower ABV, but I'm fine with that.

Thanks! :mug:
 

Tiber_Brew

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For my chocolate oatmeal stouts, I put 1-2 oz. (by weight) of unsweetened cocoa powder in the last minute of the boil. If you mash high enough, you'll have residual sweetness and don't need it from the chocolate addition.

I would be careful about adding syrups; check the label to see what all is in there. Nothing wrong with pure cocoa powder, and it tastes great in stouts.

Hope it turns out, whatever method you chose :mug:

TB
 
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jbrookeiv

jbrookeiv

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For my chocolate oatmeal stouts, I put 1-2 oz. (by weight) of unsweetened cocoa powder in the last minute of the boil. If you mash high enough, you'll have residual sweetness and don't need it from the chocolate addition.

I would be careful about adding syrups; check the label to see what all is in there. Nothing wrong with pure cocoa powder, and it tastes great in stouts.

Hope it turns out, whatever method you chose :mug:

TB
I was thinking of a syrup because it has some sugar in it, which would bump up the ABV. I am probably going to by some sort of fancy syrup from Whole Foods, something with no extra ingredients.

Would adding the syrup to the boil and secondary be a good idea?
 

maxamuus

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I was just watching Brew Tv and Jake was talking about adding chocolate syrup and said he only does it at bottling otherwise the yeasties eat all the sugars out of it and doesnt leave much flavor where as at bottling the flavor is retained.

EDIT: Nevermind looked at the recipe and it was Chocolate extract. He said flavoring and i thought he meant chocolate syrup.
 

cheezydemon3

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I was just watching Brew Tv and Jake was talking about adding chocolate syrup and said he only does it at bottling otherwise the yeasties eat all the sugars out of it and doesnt leave much flavor where as at bottling the flavor is retained.
I am sorry.

That makes less than no sense.

Unless you prime with chocolate syrup, you will overcarb it, and the yeast will still eat the sugars.

SORRY!

Did I miss something?
 
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jbrookeiv

jbrookeiv

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Went back and watched it again he was talking about "Chocolate Flavoring" but he did talk about yeast eating the sugars so i guess it is something different from chocolate syrup?

http://brewingtv.squarespace.com/ep...6-brewing-with-the-keelersbeer-o-clock-r.html

1:36 he talks about it.
Maybe it's some sort of chocolate extract?

EDIT: Yea, just watched the video. It is a chocolate flavoring, which, I assume, contains very little sugar. That is why you could add it at bottling and not over carbonate the beers. I think he was honestly talking out of his ass about the yeast eating the sugar, because I doubt there was much sugar in there anyway.

Probably similar to this stuff: http://www.homebrewers.com/product/...utm_medium=CPC&utm_content=&utm_campaign=3530
 
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jbrookeiv

jbrookeiv

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Well, I've been researching chocolate extract, and it seems like it's what I should use. No extra sugar to possibly mess up fermentation, and it's whats used in a lot of chocolate stout recipes.
 
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jbrookeiv

jbrookeiv

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I have this same kit from AHS and I have been debating on adding chocolate or leaving it as is. Here is a great article on brewing with different types of chocolate.
As you can see, he does use syrup.

http://***********/stories/recipes/article/indices/38-ingredients/316-brewing-with-chocolate
Nice! He added a 1/2 cup of chocolate syrup at the very end of his boil. Hmm, that might be what I try. I'll try to find chocolate extract locally, but otherwise I think I'll add it at the end of the boil.

Anyone else with experience with chocolate syrup or extract? I don't think cocoa powder would achieve what I'm looking for, since it doesn't add a sweet chocolate flavor, but instead a bitter chocolate flavor.
 

Rover

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Wouldn't the fat from the chocolate in the syrup inhibit the head retention?
 
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jbrookeiv

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Wouldn't the fat from the chocolate in the syrup inhibit the head retention?
There really shouldn't be any fat in chocolate syrup. They add fat to chocolate bars for mouth feel and to hold it together, as far as I know.
 

Rover

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There really shouldn't be any fat in chocolate syrup. They add fat to chocolate bars for mouth feel and to hold it together, as far as I know.

Yeah, you're probably right. We used to make our own in the restaurant I worked at and we would use dark chocolate in the recipe and that would have fat in it.

The chances of store bought syrup having fat in it is very slim. I would check the ingredients for chocolate or cocoa powder just to make sure.
 

Tiber_Brew

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I don't think cocoa powder would achieve what I'm looking for, since it doesn't add a sweet chocolate flavor, but instead a bitter chocolate flavor.
The cocoa powder is only perceived to be bitter when not used in conjunction with sugar. There's plenty of sugars in your beer that make up for the lack of sugar in the powder. The sweetness will come from your beer, the chocolate flavor will come from the cocoa powder.

I can tell you from personal experience that in the many times that I've added it to my stouts and oatmeal stouts, it tasted great. Cocoa powder is really what chocolate is made from, plus sugar, and wax.

If you've got your mind set on bumping the ABV, you could add a .25 - .5 pound of DME with the cocoa powder. If you're worried about it not being sweet enough, you could add some lactose to it as well. Your local (or online) HBS carries both of those.

Good luck! :mug:
 
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jbrookeiv

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The cocoa powder is only perceived to be bitter when not used in conjunction with sugar. There's plenty of sugars in your beer that make up for the lack of sugar in the powder. The sweetness will come from your beer, the chocolate flavor will come from the cocoa powder.

I can tell you from personal experience that in the many times that I've added it to my stouts and oatmeal stouts, it tasted great. Cocoa powder is really what chocolate is made from, plus sugar, and wax.

If you've got your mind set on bumping the ABV, you could add a .25 - .5 pound of DME with the cocoa powder. If you're worried about it not being sweet enough, you could add some lactose to it as well. Your local (or online) HBS carries both of those.

Good luck! :mug:
Alright, maybe I will try cocoa powder. When do you add it?
 

Tiber_Brew

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Alright, maybe I will try cocoa powder. When do you add it?
Use whatever you want, I'm just suggesting that you keep the cocoa powder as an option. You could try both and compare if you want.

I add it at the last minute of the boil. You don't want to boil it for very long, just long enough to kill any wildlife that might be in there. I usually use about 1 to 3 oz. by weight per 5 gallons, depending on the malt bill.

Hope it turns out!
TB
 

boostsr20

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Any way you slice it, this won't be anything like a founders Breakfast stout. I've brewed the same kit you have and adding 8oz of fat free chocolate powder at the end of the boil would improve it but the whole profile of this recipe is much different than Founders Breakfast Stout. There are clones on here when your ready to put together your own or others recipes.
 

Grinder12000

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Any way you slice it, this won't be anything like a founders Breakfast stout
You said it first - I made a clone of Founders and you are forgetting the coffee! I used chocolate nibs for the chocolate and three kinds of coffee (Kona for dry "hopping).
 
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jbrookeiv

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You said it first - I made a clone of Founders and you are forgetting the coffee! I used chocolate nibs for the chocolate and three kinds of coffee (Kona for dry "hopping).
Yea, I'm not trying to exactly replicate it. I really just want a slightly higher ABV Samuel Smith with a touch of chocolate. Smooth mouthfeel, noticeable chocolate backbone.
 

boostsr20

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I think the AHS clone is very close to the Samuel Smith. To get it close to a breakfast stout like beer it would benefit from chocolate powder, cold extracted coffee at bottling, and more oats/flaked barley and/or some maltodextrin for mouthfeel. The Samuel Smith is a thinner stout.
 
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jbrookeiv

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Anyone else have any input on this? My kit gets here today, and I'll be brewing this weekend. This will be my first brewing session!
 

SevenFields

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I brewed this Samual Smith clone last weekend and I added just a little over a cup of Hershey syrup. It has a great chocolate smell in the fermenter right now.
I plan on adding one split vanilla bean to secondary.
I think it will turn out great. I will try to keep you updated.
 

lilwiggum

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Anyone else have any input on this? My kit gets here today, and I'll be brewing this weekend. This will be my first brewing session!
To be honest, since this is your first kit, my advice would be to make the kit as is. It is easier to focus on the brewing process if you keep it simple, and also will increase the chance of making a good tasting beer. Forrest from AHS has commented before on the large number of complaints about their kits from people who have added extra ingredients.

But hey, it's your beer, do what you want! I just hope you have a positive experience and will want to do another batch.
 

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