Added ALL the extract *after* the boil. Was this a terrible mistake??

[grndslm]

I've seen it mentioned that the extract could be added near the end of the boil, but I figured if it just mixed up in nearly-boiling water... it would be good enough.

This is by far the lightest colored beer I've seen yet, but I don't think I've seen one person suggest NOT turning the burner back on and bringing it back to a boil for at least a couple minutes.

Anybody ever done ALL extract *after* the boil???

 

[Gigan]

Yes I have And it came out very good. I do it all the time. You're good. In my opinion.

 

[hector]

I've seen it mentioned that the extract could be added near the end of the boil, but I figured if it just mixed up in nearly-boiling water... it would be good enough.

Do you mean that you boiled just water and Hops for 60 minutes ?!

Hector

 

[brtisbuck]

Do you mean that you boiled just water and Hops for 60 minutes ?!

Hector

My thoughts exactly. It has always been my understanding that some extract helps with hops utilization and flavor profile, and I'm definately a late addition kinda guy.

 

[MR2Aaron]

Do you mean that you boiled just water and Hops for 60 minutes ?!

Hector

If you used steeping grains, you'd have done that part prior to the boil.

 

[Wakadaka]

yeah i think you need some sugar in the wort in order to get the hops to work. and it also depends what temperature the wort was when you added the extract. you need it hot enough for it to sanitize the extract, but if you put it in right at flame out you should be fine.

also was it liquid or dry? i think dry you would be better off, but as long as you mixed the liquid well it should be fine i would think

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

yeah i think you need some sugar in the wort in order to get the hops to work.

Not true.

OP, you're good. Hops will utilize in straight water, but in your case I'm guessing the boil included wort from steeping grains..... You may or may not have gotten better utilization in the thinner boil, but that's entirely debatable. My guess would be that the beer will turn out just fine, and actually, IME late and/or flameout extract adds yield a better beer that one that had all the extract boiled for the whole boil.

 

[Gigan]

Do you mean that you boiled just water and Hops for 60 minutes ?!

Hector

I have steeped the grains then brought the the wort to a boil, added hops to to this, then added ALL the malt extract to it at flameout. I was doing this a lot when I was trying to get rid of the twang of extract brewing. I subsequently went to dry malt extract adding a pound or two early and the bulk, say remanding 6-8 pound at flameout. Realizing that it was getting too costly to do full DME. I went back to LME and use a pound early and the remainder at flame out. Bottom line is I have added all the LME to the steeped grains at flame out more that once and found it tasted much better than the burnt/caramelized LME I was tasting when adding it alt first boil. Your mileage may vary

 

[hector]

"grndslm" didn't mention that he/she used steeping grains .

I'm very interested to see the result and I hope that he/she would tell us

about it after a few Weeks .

Hector

 

[Gigan]

"grndslm" didn't mention that he/she used steeping grains .

I'm very interested to see the result and I hope that he/she would tell us

about it after a few Weeks .

Hector

Thanks Hector, I was just clarifying what I meant in my first response for the op's sake. I didn't pick up on possibility of "grndslm" not using steeping grains. Until I read your response.

 

[BrutalBrew]

Even if you are just boiling hops with no steeping grains this seems to be a better way to use LME/DME. The hops need the long boil for the bitterness. Regardless, if it turns out better beer, that is what should be important. NOT that your boiling hops for 60 mins. I can see some might think , well golllie your wasting time. No your not. If a process works better then do it. IMO

There has been past threads with this discussed in detail. John Palmer even states that wort has nothing to do with hop utilization as past thought.

 

[HopSong]

I think I saw a video on either Brew TV or their podcast.. might have been elsewhere.. where they did an experiment.

It's possible that hop utilization needing sugars is a old myth that has been perpetuated "because others have said it".. I don't know for sure. I know Revvy has busted a myth or three. But, that video indicated that things worked very well with just hops and water and adding wort at flameout. Better (more accurate) color too. That video, while only one gallon recipes also brewed in brown growler and clear jug. No difference in taste. (Course you have to keep the clear one in a dark place.. that's not a myth)

I'm going to try it with my next extract recipe.

 

[Yooper]

My thoughts exactly. It has always been my understanding that some extract helps with hops utilization and flavor profile, and I'm definately a late addition kinda guy.

You can boil hops in just water and extract bitterness and flavor. It's not dependent on sugar in the liquid to do that.

To test it, just add an ounce of hops to a gallon of boiling water and boil hard for an hour. Let it cool and taste it. You will get a bitter liquid out of this. If not, this liquid would be tasteless, and taste just like water.

 

[Gigan]

Kinda like how people do hop teas to gain knowledge of what hops impart what flavor.

 

[grndslm]

We had no steeping grains. It was a PURE extract recipe -- 6 lbs of LME and 2 oz of cascade hops for a 5 gallon batch.

I expect it will turn out fine, but it will take another 7 weeks to find out.

THEN... we'll place another order.

 

[JohnnySardonic]

In my limited experience, I can only find one fault in your brewing method... waiting 7 weeks to order supplies for your next batch. order it now and buy a second fermenting vessel. Or two. Or three!

 

[grndslm]

In my limited experience, I can only find one fault in your brewing method... waiting 7 weeks to order supplies for your next batch. order it now and buy a second fermenting vessel. Or two. Or three!

This funky batch with extract added as soon as boiling was finished... WAS our third batch, for our third secondary fermenter.

Two normal batches. One funky brew.

We could keep going non-stop, but I want to experience this funky brew before determining how future extract beers will be created.

Other funkiness to consider in future batches....
- primary-only fermentation
- first wort hopping / dry hopping
- temperature regulation

Once we've figured out how these 3 or 4 "funks" contribute to the quality of the beer, we'll pretty much have most variables accounted for in the process.... then we can make the switch to all-grain by that point in time.

I guess from now on, we'll do the funky batch first, then two "known-to-work" batches later... so we'll see the "funky results" a couple weeks sooner and can get to ordering more ingredients quicker.

 

[borloff]

My mind is blown. I have never even considered boiling the extracts as optional. Can't wait to try it out. Thanks for the info. :rockin:

 

[grndslm]

The UNOFFICIAL results are in.... and the answer looks to be, at bottling time ---- DMS / DMSO.

My friend gets this smell every once in awhile, and I am thinking that this is the problem. Smells, tastes like a hint of V8.

I can attribute to two real changes in process on our last boil...

- adding extract after boil and not returning to boil
- under pitching the yeast (some of it had oxidized, as it was stored, for 2 weeks, with nothing more than saran wrap & a rubber band)
- not using the wort chiller, but the cool down time only took an additional 5, maybe 10 minutes at most... so this is likely not a real cause

I will drink this beer with honor and never doubt the purpose of the boil ever again.

ALWAYS BOIL YOUR WORT, EVEN IF ONLY DOING **EXTRACT** BREWS!!!

I'm just wondering why, how my friend has had this problem before. He's always boiled his stuff. I don't think he ever paid attention to pitch count, so perhaps DMS / DMSO can come from under pitching??

 

[del]

I brewed a batch of very light ale 10 days ago using the method of just boiling my hops with my very thin wort from steeping 200 g/7 oz of caramel malt, and then I added all my DME at the end and just stirred until it dissolved, then cooled it.

It was also a partial boil, since I boiled about 10 liters and then added 15 liters of cool water to make 25 l/6.6 gallons. I cooled it the rest of the way with open lid in a water bath, and it took maybe 20 minutes or so.

During the first few days of fermentation, this did have a bit of an unpleasant smell that was somewhat sulfury, and I was scared it wouldn't work well, but after 7 days I took a sample to taste, and I couldn't taste any such issue.

So, either it's the underpitched yeast (I used a fresh package of Nottingham dry yeast), or maybe you should try just giving it a bit more time and see if it works out.

 

[WIMARIPA]

Grndslm, you cannot do several things wrong and conclude the flavor problem comes from one of them. You have NO evidence for that.

 

[grndslm]

Basically two things wrong...

- Didn't boil the extract
- Underpitched yeast

The second wrong was likely the major factor here, but I will personally be boilling all extract recipes for at least a minute or two with the lid off. Just to be on the safe side.

I'm about 2/3rd thru with this Yeast book, and I do believe that yeast is the #1 factor in this situation as well.... but I'm still going to be on the safe side in the future. Maybe extracts have a "hot break" or maybe not, but until I can verify.... I will be sticking with the safe route. Boil extract for ANY amount of time and pitch proper amount of viable yeast. Check!!