Actual IBU's test ~41% below Tinseth in latest Brulosophy experiment

[Silver_Is_Money]

41% low, and for both first wort hopping and conventional hopping no less. Are hop pellets all that they are cracked up to be? Or are the formulas intended to mimic real world IBU's to blame? Technique? Freshness?

http://brulosophy.com/2017/09/25/th...op-vs-60-minute-addition-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Oginme]

It has nothing to do with the use of pellets vs leaf hops. It has everything to do with the Marshall's system and process versus Glenn Tinseth's. This is one of the reasons I don't get hung up on calculated IBU. I know from tasting commercial products from breweries which test IBU versus brews that I made myself of same or similar style and calculated IBU how to adjust my process to match similar bitterness levels. If I had the money and time to brew and make a solid correlation, I would but this works well enough to put me in the right range of bitterness for the styles I brew.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Based upon this and also the EB test results for lab measured IBU's vs Tinseth I'm of the opinion that multiplying Tinseth by about 0.7 would generally fall more into the IBU ballpark. I can't see where Marshall's methods are different from the current mainstream brewing methods, or even those from the late 80's early 90's (back when I was cutting my brewing teeth).

At the very least it appears that the prevailing idea that for Pellets one must assume 10% more IBU's vs. Leaf, ounce for ounce, is likely a misnomer.

On an EB podcast Glenn Tinseth was interviewed and stated that he never once tested pellets, and he essentially implied that for them all IBU bets are off.

 

[dmtaylor]

Glenn Tinseth was a homebrewer in the 1990s. I don't know if he brews anymore.

Tinseth actually used whole hops to make his formula. So the 10% thing for pellets vs. whole hops actually goes the other way around than people think.

Tinseth also used a much slower chill method, not a copper coil. The formula will work better for those who do no-chill or chill by immersion in a cold water bath.

Brulosophy might want to run the xbmt again with whole hops and slow chill. Or maybe not. I would find it interesting.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Tinseth actually used whole hops to make his formula. So the 10% thing for pellets vs. whole hops actually goes the other way around than people think.

That would account for a 20% drop in IBU's vs. most online or other mainstream software/spreadsheet formulas right there.

 

[magno]

It has nothing to do with the use of pellets vs leaf hops. It has everything to do with the Marshall's system and process versus Glenn Tinseth's. This is one of the reasons I don't get hung up on calculated IBU. I know from tasting commercial products from breweries which test IBU versus brews that I made myself of same or similar style and calculated IBU how to adjust my process to match similar bitterness levels. If I had the money and time to brew and make a solid correlation, I would but this works well enough to put me in the right range of bitterness for the styles I brew.

I think you nailed it here. I only the vaguest idea what my actual IBU values are, but I've been using the same formula in an excel spreadsheet for several years now, and have a good idea of where my perceived IBU values will end up in my beers.

If you develop a method that you are happy with, and get used to formulating your recipes around that, I believe you should be in pretty good shape.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

If you develop a method that you are happy with, and get used to formulating your recipes around that, I believe you should be in pretty good shape.

I fully agree, but isn't it about time for someone to come along and provide an updated quasi-empirical formula that more closely mimics lab tested IBU's for pellets when today's methods of brewing are considered?

 

[JohnSand]

Agreed. Simply put, I don't care about IBU test results, I care how it tastes.

 

[Oginme]

I fully agree, but isn't it about time for someone to come along and provide an updated quasi-empirical formula that more closely mimics lab tested IBU's for pellets when today's methods of brewing are considered?

Which will work well with that one person's process and methods. This is really no different from what Glenn Tinseth did, only with a different process.

Glenn did have one advantage over the rest of us in access to the equipment to test the %AA for the hops he was using. As home brewers, our %AA comes from a batch sample from a full bale which then gets separated into many little bags of really unknown AA content. 175 lbs to 230 lbs makes for a whole lot of one ounce packages.

If you want to go at it for your process, by all means I would encourage you fully! I would still not expect it to accurately mimic my process.