Achieving Low FG with US-05

[daveafrank]

So I'm going to rebrew a recipe I've done in the past, but never been able to get a low enough FG. I want to get this recipe down to 1.010

Mash @ 149 - 1.073 OG - 3.5gallons into fermenter
82% 2-row
4% munich
4% carapils
4% c10
2.5% honey
2.5% white wheat

I've recently switched over to dry yeast and liked the results, but when I brewed this recipe last time, the yeast got stuck at 1.020(although I overshot my OG at 1.075). This was with 1 packet rehydrated.

I am adding yeast nutrient, aerating with O2 for 1 minute and fermenting at 66 and raising to 69 to let it finish out.

Any suggestions here? Mash lower? 2 yeast packets? Do I have to switch to another yeast?

Thanks!

 

[QuercusMax]

How about replacing some of your 2-row with simple sugar? Say, .75lb of 2-row with .5lb table sugar? That should help dry it out.

 

[chemman14]

1.073 you should definitely use at least 2 packets of yeast.

 

[QuercusMax]

1.073 you should definitely use at least 2 packets of yeast.

It's only a 3.5 gallon batch, so 1 packet of US-05 *should* be enough (according to Mr Malty).

 

[daveafrank]

How about replacing some of your 2-row with simple sugar? Say, .75lb of 2-row with .5lb table sugar? That should help dry it out.

I was thinking about that...it's a clone recipe of a commercial beer so I was trying to stick to the original grain bill. But if that's what has to be done...

 

[daveafrank]

It's only a 3.5 gallon batch, so 1 packet of US-05 *should* be enough (according to Mr Malty).

Right, I've checked Beersmith and Mr Malty and both say 1 packet is enough...I even checked to see if I overshot my OG a little or overshot my volume into the fermenter by a half gallon...still said 1 packet.

 

[kh54s10]

According to Fermentis, Us-05 should attenuate to 81% At 1.075 OG and finishing at 1.020 this site: http://pint.com.au/calculators/alcohol/ Gives 73.33 % and 1.010 would be 86.67% 1.041 would be 81%

So I suspect that you will have a hard time getting 1.010. though it should go below 1.020 fairly easily. 149 mash temperature seems low enough to not end up with a lot of unfermentable sugars.

 

[peterj]

Mash as low as you can (or feel comfortable with I suppose). I would probably do a 90 minute mash at 147F or 148F. I've never mashed lower than that, but you may be able to. If that doesn't do it, replacing some base malt with simple sugar is your other option.

 

[Smellyglove]

With about 5-6% of crystals mash at 149 I get it to attentuate between 81-85%. Fermented at 19C (66F). Are you sure about your temps? This has been pretty consistent for me.

 

[daveafrank]

Mash as low as you can (or feel comfortable with I suppose). I would probably do a 90 minute mash at 147F or 148F. I've never mashed lower than that, but you may be able to. If that doesn't do it, replacing some base malt with simple sugar is your other option.

I am doing BIAB with 90min mash(with a mash out at 170)...I wrap my kettle in blankets so it does drop a couple degrees, so even if it starts at 149 it will get down to 147 by the end.

Looks like .5lbs sugar is my best option here. Can't imagine it will be a big flavor difference at only 5.5% of the grist.

 

[daveafrank]

With about 5-6% of crystals mash at 149 I get it to attentuate between 81-85%. Fermented at 19C (66F). Are you sure about your temps? This has been pretty consistent for me.

Yeah, my fermenter is temp controlled and I only lose a couple degrees when mashing.

 

[IslandLizard]

I've noticed getting higher attenuation with used US-05 than with re-hydrated fresh. I've had many get stuck at 1.020-1.024 coming from around 1.070-1.075 OG until I made a starter from re-hydrated US-05 to boost cell count. I don't think it was the sheer cell count alone that caused that.

 

[daveafrank]

I've noticed getting higher attenuation with used US-05 than with re-hydrated fresh. I've had many get stuck at 1.020-1.024 coming from around 1.070-1.075 OG until I made a starter from re-hydrated US-05 to boost cell count. I don't think it was the sheer cell count alone that caused that.

Are you saying you repitched or just made a starter? Like a 1L starter with low gravity wort on a stir plate for a day or two?

 

[Smellyglove]

I've never done this myself, but I've also heard that repithing s-05 give you higher attenuation than pitching fresh.

Making a starter and pitching the dry yeast straight into this negates the whole common conception about why rehydrating is good, unless you rehydrate first ofc.

 

[guldalian]

I agree. Add a bit of sugar and use 2 packs of yeast. I just did a DIPA like that and got 1.082 down to 1.009!!! And it was freaking amazing.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[IslandLizard]

Are you saying you repitched or just made a starter? Like a 1L starter with low gravity wort on a stir plate for a day or two?

First I noticed it after making a starter to test the viability of the dry yeast. The pouch was 2 years past expiration stored in my freezer. The 2l starter was a little slow taking off judging by the lack of foam, but after 2 days it was done and yielded a fairly large slurry. Pitched that into a 1.072 extract IPA and got better attenuation than before, like 1.014 vs 1.020-1.022 I was used to getting. I then reused yeast from that cake a couple times, with similar results.

I've never done this myself, but I've also heard that repithing s-05 give you higher attenuation than pitching fresh.

Making a starter and pitching the dry yeast straight into this negates the whole common conception about why rehydrating is good, unless you rehydrate first ofc.

Rehydrate in water of course! Then add starter wort.

 

[natural320]

I think US-05 is an absolute beast of a yeast, and I've gotten crazy high attenuation using harvested yeast cakes. my $0.02 would be to make a "smaller" beer first that is 1.050-1.055 (assuming you make it as a 3.5 gallon batch), and once that ferments out do a simple rinse and re-pitch of about 150-200mL of the slurry. you'll easily have the proper rate, if not a tad more (but not so much more that overpitching would be a concern.)

doing this I've been able to overshoot beersmith estimates by 3-5 points regularly. my last big-ish IPA was 1.072 (and I mashed at 154°) and it finished at 1.014...so I would be confident that if you mashed at 149° and used a 2nd generation of US-05 that you would at least hit that same mark. YMMV of course, but I really think it is doable without having to use more simple sugars in your recipe

 

[Takuie]

Personally myself, I have found that anytime I'm using us05 and going over 1.060, I get amazing results if I hydrate then make a 1L starter. Us05 is no doubt a workhorse yeast and when you rehydrate then start it, it will exceed the engineered specifications it's designed for.

I know they say generally you don't harvest dry yeast but I feel second and third generations of 05 work better than hydrating out of the pack.

 

[peterj]

I've never had a problem getting very good attenuation from 1st generation rehydrated US-05. I don't think I've really ever gotten less than about 78% attenuation (and that was a pale ale mashed at 154F). A recent IPA went from 1.060 to 1.007 (88%) with no simple sugar in the recipe and I believe I mashed that at around 150-151F. Granted I've never reused or made a starter with US-05, but with my current experience with it I have no desire to try. I'm not sure why IslandLizard's beers are getting stuck around 1.020, but it's never finished anywhere near there for me.

 

[Locksmith]

I say lose the carapils first off if you are going for lower than you usually get.

I also use repitched US-05, about a half of a quart mason jar worth usually gets me about 91% on a 1.070 OG, so I would say go 1L starter as opposed to 2 dry packets and all should be well.

Finally, check your FG before racking out and if you need lower just throw some sterile sugar sludge in and you can start bringing it down to where you like it.

Good luck with the brew!

 

[peterj]

I say lose the carapils first off if you are going for lower than you usually get.

I also use repitched US-05, about a half of a quart mason jar worth usually gets me about 91% on a 1.070 OG, so I would say go 1L starter as opposed to 2 dry packets and all should be well.

Finally, check your FG before racking out and if you need lower just throw some sterile sugar sludge in and you can start bringing it down to where you like it.

Good luck with the brew!

I think he's trying to stick as close to the original recipe as he can. Also, it's a 3.5 gallon batch so he doesn't need 2 packs. And adding sugar after fermentation is over is not a good way to lower the FG. You want to replace base malt in the recipe with sugar, not just add more sugar on top of the full recipe and try to thin it out with a lot of added alcohol.

 

[QuercusMax]

And adding sugar after fermentation is over is not a good way to lower the FG. You want to replace base malt in the recipe with sugar, not just add more sugar on top of the full recipe and try to thin it out with a lot of added alcohol.

That's my understanding as well - not to mention that if you add more sugar in an attempt to dry it out, you'll throw off your BU:GU ratio and end up with a different beer than you would have if you had replaced base malt with sugar.

If you're adding a lot of sugars, like to a Belgian Strong for example, you might want to wait until after fermentation has really kicked off, so you don't stress out the yeast. But in that case you would have already accounted for those sugars in your recipe to begin with.

 

[daveafrank]

First I noticed it after making a starter to test the viability of the dry yeast. The pouch was 2 years past expiration stored in my freezer. The 2l starter was a little slow taking off judging by the lack of foam, but after 2 days it was done and yielded a fairly large slurry. Pitched that into a 1.072 extract IPA and got better attenuation than before, like 1.014 vs 1.020-1.022 I was used to getting. I then reused yeast from that cake a couple times, with similar results.

Thanks for the tips! I have always been scared off of harvesting yeast, plus I dry hop in primary and skip secondary so my trub sits a while and is filled with hop debris. Making a starter is much simpler...plus I can use that stir plate that's been collecting dust.

 

[kh54s10]

Thanks for the tips! I have always been scared off of harvesting yeast, plus I dry hop in primary and skip secondary so my trub sits a while and is filled with hop debris. Making a starter is much simpler...plus I can use that stir plate that's been collecting dust.

Making a starter with dry yeast depletes the reserves engineered in. So it kind of defeats the purpose of using dry yeast. I guess that if you made a bigger starter than normal and it then being "second generation" you might get the extra couple of points off the FG.

Why not use WY1056 or WLP001? They are the same strain, reportedly.

 

[daveafrank]

Making a starter with dry yeast depletes the reserves engineered in. So it kind of defeats the purpose of using dry yeast. I guess that if you made a bigger starter than normal and it then being "second generation" you might get the extra couple of points off the FG.

Why not use WY1056 or WLP001? They are the same strain, reportedly.

I chose US-05 because I wanted to really learn one yeast strain and use it for several months before moving to other yeasts. I can play around with over pitching pretty inexpensively using dry yeast. Honestly I don't want to make starters or have to prep for brew day 24-48 hours in advance, I just want something I can pull out of the fridge, rehydrate and go.

 

[Locksmith]

I think he's trying to stick as close to the original recipe as he can. Also, it's a 3.5 gallon batch so he doesn't need 2 packs. And adding sugar after fermentation is over is not a good way to lower the FG. You want to replace base malt in the recipe with sugar, not just add more sugar on top of the full recipe and try to thin it out with a lot of added alcohol.

Carapils offers nothing but body at 4% which is what he is looking to reduce..

Need vs want..no ill effects from over pitching 05 is extremely clean at good temps and can help assure his desired fg..

Adding simple sugars after initial ferment has ceased is perfectly fine..it is how one often makes high gravity beers..