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ABV to FG balance

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I wonder if there is any research or formula taking alcohol content into account for calculating beer balance? There is BU:GU formula, there is an adaptation based on final gravity instead of OG, but I haven't found any based (or at least appreciating) ABV.

Why asking? Because my last barleywine landed at about 13-14 ABV and while IBU:OG and IBU:FG seem balanced, my taste says it's not – alcohol is to overwhelming. Which is natural, because such a high alcohol level also requires some residual sweetness to balance. Also, I tried Port wine recently of 19.5 ABV and it was perfectly balanced by pretty high sweetness.

So, is there a formula to calculate triangular balance ABV:IBU:FG?
 

bracconiere

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you can write your own forumla, based on your taste? all i usually tell from bigger beers is they don't need as much carbonation....

edit: i don't like champagne.....too much carb and it doesn't go good with the ABV
 
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Yes I can theoretically. I'm planing an experiment, I don't know if it will work though. I'll dissolve vodka to 5°, 10°, 15° and add some sugar to see what amount will balance the alcohol. Then I'll make a batch with hopping based on IBU:OG formula and add extra residual sugars for alcohol balancing in a proportion found in vodka-experiment.
 

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FYI alcohol is sweet so I don't see why you would need sweetness to balance it?
 

eric19312

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Count me skeptical but interested in your research.

my go to recipe has OG from 1.050 to 1.055 and FG around 0.99 for around 7% ABV. Its enjoyable across a range of IBU with lower IBU leaving pleasant malty sweetness and juicy hops in the modern NEIPA profile and higher IBU...up to 50-60 IBU presenting as a solid west coast IPA.

Might be style dependent but I tend to agree with @Vale71 point... bitter is main flavor component in (clean not soured) beer that is used to balance sweetness.
 
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FYI alcohol is sweet so I don't see why you would need sweetness to balance it?
Well, I've seen some topics discussing sweetness of alcohol. There are always two groups of people involved into such discussions. I seem to be among those who don't think vodka or whiskey is sweet. Somewhat sweet – probably. Sweet from chemistry perspective – maybe. But the main descriptor I give to alcohol is "warm/hot". That's why I want to balance this warmness with sweetness like it's balanced in before-said Port.
 
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Have read a few articles today. Seems, this warmness I want to balance is a result or fusel alcohol production. Since ABV and OG in my barleywine is high (1.129), also room temp where my fermenter stayed was about 21°С (70°F), high production of fusel may (and did) occur. According to the articles, exactly fusel alcohol gives hot descriptors.
 

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FYI alcohol is sweet so I don't see why you would need sweetness to balance it?
I would love to borrow your taste buds, I can’t say I’ve ever had an alcohol that was sweet.

And to the OP fusel alcohols are not just hot they have a chemical taste to them, I’ve had a beer or 2 that has fermented hot and that flavor can’t be covered up
 

bracconiere

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Yes I can theoretically. I'm planing an experiment, I don't know if it will work though. I'll dissolve vodka to 5°, 10°, 15° and add some sugar to see what amount will balance the alcohol. Then I'll make a batch with hopping based on IBU:OG formula and add extra residual sugars for alcohol balancing in a proportion found in vodka-experiment.

dissolved co2 creates an acid of sorts.....carbonic(sp?)
 

Vale71

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I would love to borrow your taste buds, I can’t say I’ve ever had an alcohol that was sweet.

And to the OP fusel alcohols are not just hot they have a chemical taste to them, I’ve had a beer or 2 that has fermented hot and that flavor can’t be covered up
And I've never had any spirits that tasted bitter unless there was some bittering agent added. Granted, ethanol is probably one of the less sweet alchohols compared to glicerol (which is found in beer as a by-product of fermentation) or xylitol but if untainted by higher alcohols it still gives a sweet taste.
Totally agree that you probably can't cover up fusel alcohols with residual sugars, you have to either let them age out or live with them.
 

bracconiere

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And I've never had any spirits that tasted bitter unless there was some bittering agent added. Granted, ethanol is probably one of the less sweet alchohols compared to glicerol (which is found in beer as a by-product of fermentation) or xylitol but if untainted by higher alcohols it still gives a sweet taste.
Totally agree that you probably can't cover up fusel alcohols with residual sugars, you have to either let them age out or live with them.
maybe it's like Capsaicin , and just dissolves your taste buds.....
 

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If you drink 96° alcohol you definitely won't feel a thing. At least not right away... ;)
If you water it down to about 15° you'll be able to taste it and it will taste slightly sweet. In beer you then also have glycerol (about 1 g/l in ales) that tastes even sweeter and adds to the mouthfeel as well.
 
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If I got you correct, I don't need to balance alcohol with sweetness, just wait until hotness of alcohol aged out. Ok, let's see.
 
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