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A Tribute to Hunahpu

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WhizardHat

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Recipe Type: All Grain
Yeast: Wyeast 1275
Yeast Starter: 2L
Batch Size (Gallons): 5.5
Original Gravity: 1.112
Final Gravity: 1.029
IBU: 75
Boiling Time (Minutes): 120
Color: SRM 76
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14d @ 60F
Additional Fermentation: Age in bottles as long as you can handle it
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): [email protected] 60F
Tasting Notes: Still in planning phase


Howdy folks,

Below is my attempt to clone Cigar City Brewery's Bourbon aged Hunahpu. For those that have not had the pleasture, it is a thick, black, boozy Imperial Stout, aged over ancho chiles, chocolate, vanilla, and cinnamon in a bourbon barrel. As far as I can tell, very few attempts at cloning have been made.

My sources include The Mad Fermentationist, some guy on Hopville, and feedback from my Reddit post in /r/homebrewing. Note that the recipe at Reddit and the recipe here are not identical. I have included much of the feedback from that post here.

I would like to garner some additional feedback from the fine populace of HBT, so, without further ado:

Grain Bill
  • 17# 2 Row
  • 2# Chocolate Malt [8.4%]
  • 1# Black Patent [4.2%]
  • 1# Carafa I [4.2%]
  • 1# Roasted Barley [4.2%]
  • 12oz Flaked Oats [3.2%]
  • 8oz C120 [2.1%]
  • 8oz Flaked Rye [2.1%]

Mash Schedule
  • Full Body Single Infusion Mash with Mash-Out
  • 156F for 75 min
  • 168F for 15 min

Hop Schedule
120 Minute Boil
  • 3oz Northern Brewer @ 60 [53IBU]
  • 2oz Goldings @ 20 [12.6IBU]
  • 1tsp Irish Moss @ 10
  • 2oz Target @ 5 [9.1 IBU]

Yeast
  • Wyeast 1275 Thames Valley
  • 2L starter
  • 1 tsp Yeast Nutrient
  • Fish Tank aeration for 20 (?) min

Primary Fermentation
14 days @ ~60F

Secondary Fermentation
30-60 days @ 60F - Bulk aging on flavor additions, and in a bourbon barrel
  • 1oz Ancho Chiles
  • 1 Vanilla bean, split
  • 1/2 Cinnamon Stick
  • 6 oz Cocoa Powder

Bottling
  • 2.1 volumes of C02
  • 3oz corn sugar
  • Condition for 30 days @ 60F
 
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WhizardHat

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My questions:

  • 2Row or Maris Otter?
  • 1.030 seems really high for FG. Your thoughts?
  • Any point in 3 hop additions, or shall I just dump hops at 60 and call it good?
  • Yeast Nutrient, yes or no?
  • Should I add champagne yeast to secondary to dry things out?
 

skibb

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Are you sure it's aged in bourbon barrels and not just regular oak barrels? I only ask because it has the same stats (OG/ABV) as it's base beer Zhukovs which isn't a bourbon aged RIS.

According to the site its OG is 30 P - meaning 1.131 ----> FG = 1.048ish to get an ABV of 11% (FG would have to be even higher if some of that 11% was contributed by bourbon from a barrel).

One 60 minute hop addition should work nicely, the hops are just there to balance out the sweetness of such a big beer, not to contribute anything more than that IMHO.

I don't get why people think wine yeasts dry beers out - they don't. Most, if not all, cannot metabolize maltotriose which sacc can. If you pitch a proper amount of healthy cells you should have no problem reaching full attenuation (depending on your mash schedule). Where Champagne yeast could come into play would be for bottle conditioning as it has a great alcohol tolerance and will eat up your priming sugar no problem.

I REALLY wanna be able to clone this beer someday. I wonder if reaching out to the brewer would be a good idea? CC is homebrewer friendly, but this beer is so high profile...

It would be great to know their amounts of spices they use and their process with integrating them into this beer. Good luck on the clone!
 

elixir

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I asked Wayne Wambles of Cigar city about Marshal Zhukov along time ago. It's hunaphus base beer it has It has roasted barley, black patent, chocolate malt, C60L, C120L and two row. He didn't specify what hops are used or anything like that. Not even ratios of grain :-(. I know that cigar city empties their mash tun and refills it for this beer. I always wondered if one could make a beer so viscous in a 5 gallon batch. Hope this helps. I think they do use EKG for the hops as well..
 

skibb

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Thx elixir! Good info - Yeah I've heard that to make that stout they fill and empty the mash tun 3 times...Not sure if it's just the first runnings though
 

Oophaga

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Hunahpu isn't aged in barrels. They have hunahpu that IS aged in barrels but all the same base. MZ is not confirmed as the base for hunahpu and they actually deny that claim. Amazing beer, and I hope you come close. Post results, maybe in the future I'll try. The beer is sooo damn good. The thickness of it is unparalleled. MZ is definitely in second behind it for me. Thats another I'd love to clone.
 
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WhizardHat

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Skibb, Oophaga: Hunahpu is sold as a base beer, and also as various barrel aged versions, including bourbon, brandy, and rum. All are fantastic!

Skibb, the reason I asked about champagne yeast is that the only other big beer I've done was from a kit, and it had me add champagne yeast to secondary, but you're probably right that it was for conditioning purposes. It just seemed that 1.03 was a very high FG, but my research of big beers seems to indicate that is about normal.

Elixir, thanks for the tips! 2 row it is. But I'll need to squeeze some C60 in there as well. No Carafa at all? I guess you can get the same effect from Black patent & chocolate. Only EKG as a bittering addition would seem like a ton of hops. I wonder if you couldn't get the same effect with just a couple ounces of magnum at 60 (or 120) minutes?

Oophaga, just re-read your post. You're correct. I'll leave what I wrote for posterity.
 
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WhizardHat

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Found some additional information here on HBT about this beer. Relevant discussion begins at post #53
 

skibb

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So I went digging in the old archived blog from CCB and found this -
Next in the list of new pilots is a Mayan Chocolate Imperial Stout. The base malt will be Thomas Fawcett Maris Otter. It also has the standard roasted malts of an imperial stout with chocolate malt and roasted barley being pushed to the forefront and a smaller addition of black malt. This beer will also feature Fawcett and Hugh Baird cara malts (I love both of these maltsters because their specialty grains have so much flavor). Also in the grist bill, I will be using extra dark munich and some flaked barley for added body. The hop bill is simple and incorporates UK First Gold and UK Fuggle. The interesting part is the spice and chile additions that go into the secondary. They include ancho and pasilla chiles. The ancho is a standard chile that is used quite a bit in chili powder and it is not as hot as the pasilla. The pasilla chile has smoky notes and I will be using more ancho than pasilla because I don’t want the beer to be too smoky or too hot. I will also be adding Madagascar vanilla beans, threshold levels of cinnamon and raw cacao nibs. Once all of these things have been extracted in the secondary, the beer will be racked to a keg for carbonation. I will be using our house ale strain for this beer as well (Thames Valley). This beer will be about 11%ABV and will weigh in at 80 IBU’s. It should be a great beer for Fall and Winter. I am brewing this as a nod to Mayan/Incan worship and love of chocolate and it will be nothing short of decadent.
My techniques and precision have become much more efficient. I have dialed in mash efficiencies and total volume lost in the kettle on a standard one hour boil using a measuring tape and all just in time to make the last of the high gravity beers in this series of pilots. The Mayan Chocolate Imperial Stout, which I brewed on October 2nd, was even higher in gravity at my projected volume than I expected it to be. It finished at 26.8 degrees plato (11-12 ABV) at slightly over 5 gallons of yield. The mash looked like enough grain for a 10 gallon batch (28 lbs). The mash gave back mocha espresso with a multitude of dark caramel and toffee components. I was fortunate enough to have the foresight to put it into a larger carboy. It raged at the thought of being contained in any vessel during the process of fermentation and is still acting like a raptor even as I type…krausening 4 – 6 inches above the liquid surface (the raptors tested the shock gates in Jurassic Park). Eight different grains and 80 IBU’s are just the base of this beer. I can’t wait to get the chiles, raw cacao nibs, vanilla and cinnamon in there. Then it will be 10 – 14 days of contact time away from calling for a sacrifice on the temple steps as I hold the knife in one hand and this magical, historical elixir in the other. I guess it was all about population control back then and these guys were worse than that Cocoa Puffs’ bird (lol).
It will have ancho chiles mostly with small amounts of pasilla chiles
http://blog.cigarcitybeer.com/

These are back from 2008 when they were calling it the Mayan Chocolate Imperial Stout. The recipe has likely been changed/tweaked but some of this information could be helpful I think!
 

skibb

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I received an email from Wayne regarding the gravities of Zhukov's (asking if they were truly that big. His reply: OG: 30-32 and FG 11-13. He did give me a hint that they use a substantially large amount of roasted malts to balance the residual sweetness. He mentioned the base malt was less than 50% of the grist.

Could someone please send an email to CCB and ask them if Zhukov's is used for the base beer? I feel if I reply asking this question I may be found... (Though I really would wanna clone either of these awesome beers!)
 
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WhizardHat

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Skibb, that is some excellent information! Base malt as <50% of the grist!? That's insane! I didn't know you could do that. Do you think that contributes to the viscosity?

I have some additional information, second hand from a guy that kind of knows a guy that works at CCB, so take it for what it's worth, but it does seem to jive with some of the information we already have here:

I was at the Florida Brewers Ball in Tampa this February and happened to meet the packaging manager for Cigar City, and he had one tip for getting the distinctive Hunahpu viscosity. He said that for Hunahpu they only use the first runnings from the mash until it drops to 17 Plato (~1.070 SG) and then the rest goes into other beers. According to him it makes for an expensive beer, but it has worked well for them. Judging from the taste I'd have to agree.
It seems to jive with what you and elixir were discussing above.

Not sure if I'll do this or not, that would make for a really long brew day!
 
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WhizardHat

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Humor me for a moment. Let's assume for a moment that the recipe used today is relatively unchanged from the recipe posted in the blog for a Mayan chocolate stout. That recipe seems to indicate that the mash tun is not emptied and refilled three times.

I'm just having a hard time understanding why using only first runnings would give a more viscous beer, or benefit the final product in a way that adding a few more pounds of grain to compensate for lost efficiency wouldn't.

And if we take that blog post to be truth, at 28# of grain, I think we're getting close. I did not adjust for loss of efficiency, so if I want a final product with OG 1.1, I will, in fact need to bump up the grain in the grist.
 

smw356

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Humor me for a moment. Let's assume for a moment that the recipe used today is relatively unchanged from the recipe posted in the blog for a Mayan chocolate stout. That recipe seems to indicate that the mash tun is not emptied and refilled three times.

I'm just having a hard time understanding why using only first runnings would give a more viscous beer, or benefit the final product in a way that adding a few more pounds of grain to compensate for lost efficiency wouldn't.

And if we take that blog post to be truth, at 28# of grain, I think we're getting close. I did not adjust for loss of efficiency, so if I want a final product with OG 1.1, I will, in fact need to bump up the grain in the grist.
I'm guessing they cant fit enough grain in their mash tun to do it consistently that way.
 

skibb

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I'm guessing they cant fit enough grain in their mash tun to do it consistently that way.
Also, by not sparging you get the darkest color possible and the richest wort. From a viscosity/fermentability standpoint I don't believe this matters much - I think this is where the specialty grains come into play.

Base malt as <50% of the grist!?
My guess is there are a substantial amounts of flaked barley/dark munich that help decrease the amount of the base malt. That being said, I still think the percentages of the specialty grains (specifically the roasted ones) are going to be very high (10+%).
 
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WhizardHat

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More from the CCB blog:

Post # 50:
Capricho Oscuro is our first oak aged test batch. It is a blend and is currently aging on virgin oak supplied by Tony of Oldsmar Taphouse. Capricho Oscuro consists of a carefully planned blend of the following brews: Zhukov's Imperial Stout aged on toasted cedar, our American Imperial Stout, our American and English yeast versions of the imperial strength Double Nut Brown Ale, our Puppy's Breath Porter and (I forgot to add this in the original post) a smoky kiss of our Rauch Gott. The exact blend will remain a mystery, but the base is basically the porter augmented heavily with the American yeast Double Nut Brown followed by increasingly smaller amounts of the remaining beers. The ingredients log was unique to say the least.
What does this tell us:
  • Zhukov is aged on toasted cedar. Crazy right?
  • Capricho oscuro may be an early forerunner to Hunahpu.

Post#71
We had been referring to Hunahpus as Mayan Chocolate Imperial Stout, but I decided to finally give it a more personal name and in Mayan myth Hunahpus gives cocoa to the Mayan people so I thought that worked well.
What this tells us:
  • Skibb's finding of the Mayan Imperial recipe discussion is an accurate early representation of Hunahpu.

Lastly, I am posting the version of the recipe that I will be making. As exact recipe's seem to be difficult to come by for this brew, and as I really don't have any interest in emptying and refilling my mash tun 3 times (what is true, what is folk lore?), I am venturing a little bit in my own direction. This recipe is certainly a tribute to Hunahpu, but is by no means a clone.

Some notes:
  • I have <50% base malt!
  • with a 67% efficiency, I can reach 11.5% ABV with 28.25# of grain. In post #51, Wayne says he uses 28# of grain.

Grain Bill
  • 14# 2 Row [49.6%]
  • 5# Victory [17.7%]
  • 3# Roasted Barley [10.6%]
  • 3# Chocolate Malt [10.6%]
  • 1.5# Flaked Oats [5.3%]
  • 1# C60 [3.5%]
  • .5# Flaked Rye [1.8%]
  • .25# Special B [0.9%]

Hops
2.75oz Summit @ 60


Stats

Batch Size: 5.5g
OG: 1.116
FG: 1.030
Est ABV: 11.5%
Color: 83.5 SRM
IBU: 82.2
Boil Time: 120 min
Est. Brewhouse Efficiency Assumption: 67%
 

Oophaga

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You hit the SRM mark! I was always baffled by that magical number over 80 for the SRM. I also noticed in a post it being mentioned that MZ was aged on cedar, I do beleive they wood age lots of beers, but they almost always have the base beer for sale as unchanged. White Oak Jai Alai for example, the base is very common but they do have different treatments of it. Same with MZ. I still have one bottle of MZ left from this year, trying to save it until october, we will see if I can manage, 6 bottles went way to quickly. I have a "Few" Hunahpu as well. I need to make a beer if not a clone, as viscous and black as it.
 
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WhizardHat

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You hit the SRM mark!
I don't know what kind of calculation Beersmith uses, especially since most SRM scales only go to 40 or 50, but I'd venture a guess that CCB was using Beersmith during their 5gallon pilot batches! I actually was having trouble with the SRM going too high, if you can believe that.

I envy your Hunahpu collection. I first had the opportunity to taste it about 6 months ago, and shortly after moved out of Florida. So CCB's beers are much harder to come by these days.
 

skibb

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In the Sunday Session with Cigar City Wayne mentions he calculated the IBUs for Jai Alai with promash...dunno whether he uses the default hop utilization (I'm guessing probably not)
 
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WhizardHat

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I started listening to that podcast this morning. Wayne mentioned that CCB does not age Hunahpu over cedar. Good to know.
 

kadijk

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I'm following this developing brew. CCB's Swinging Harry Tropical Quad is what got me absolutely hooked on what I call "nice" beer. And so to know that it might be possible to come close to cloning something like that(not similar in style, maybe, but similar in quality), is very appealing to me. Lead on...
 
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WhizardHat

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I'm going to try this, this weekend. Will post results
Please, don't forget to report back and let us know how the brew day goes! If you make any changes to the recipe or anything, that would be excellent to know about as well. I'm excited to see the first wave of tasting notes from this recipe thread!

In other news, I'm not quite ready to brew yet, but I sent the following note to Wayne Wambles, and am anxiously awaiting his reply:

Hi Wayne,
I'm a homebrewer, and former Florida resident, and a huge fan of your work! Given the cult-like following that surrounds the annual release of Hunahpu each year, I bet you'd be just as surprised as me to learn that very few attempts have been made at cloning your recipe. I'm hoping to change that, and I hope that's okay with you.
There's a great deal of "folk-lore" surrounding this beer as well, and I'm writing you today in hopes that you can help me see through the fog, and craft a beer that will at least serve as a tribute to your creation. So, without any further pomp/circumstance, I ask if you would answer as many of the following as you're willing. If none, I completely understand, and I will continue to look forward to my eventual return to Florida, such that I can try another CCB invention.
- Word on the street is that the Thames Valley strain is the CCB house yeast, but folks are unsure if that's used in Hunahpu, due to the relatively low alcohol tolerance of the yeast. Any comment?
- Some have said that less than 50% of the grain bill is your base malt. True/False?
- The best bit of folk lore: "CCB fills their mash tun 3 times when brewing Hunahpu, and only uses the first runnings. When it reaches 17 Plato, they use the remaining sugars for other beers". If that one's true, major respect. That must make for a devilishly long brew day!
- Marshal Zhukov is or is not the base beer for Hunahpu.
- All EKG hops?
- In your 2010 (?) interview with the Brewing Network, I believe you mentioned that you used cinnamon in the mash. Is that correct?
- Would you be willing to comment on the amounts/ratios of the secondary additions of cacao, cinnamon, ancho, pasilla?
Again, huge fan of not just this beer, but really all of them. I keep telling my Michigan friends about Maduro Brown, and most of them can't believe a brown ale is as good as I say! If you like, I'd be happy to send a bottle to you as thanks.
Cheers,
 

Oophaga

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Nicely written. Worst case scenario you reminded him how much everyone loves his beer and he declines. Lets hope for at least something in reply ;-). I know e is super secretive about that and jai alai.


Love this thread.
 
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WhizardHat

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If you're looking for a Jai Alai recipe, check out this podcast. He gives the recipe out at the end of the interview.
 

Oophaga

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Oh damn. Things are getting interesting. Thanks for the link!! A buddy was up at the brewery and brought back white oak jai alai that was bottled less than a week ago! So delicious. The best though I got to drink some jai alai straight from the fermenter as they were clearing it. Amazing.
 
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WhizardHat

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Straight from the horse's mouth:

I don't hand out recipes. This is what I say every time that I receive requests. I have given out recipes on the Brewing Network and in a couple of books but I don't feel like it helps anyone learn anything or come into their own as a brewer.

I will answer what I can:



- Word on the street is that the Thames Valley strain is the CCB house yeast, but some folks are unsure if that's used in Hunahpu, due to the relatively low alcohol tolerance of the yeast. Any comment?
Thames Valley was the first house strain that we fermented our beers with. We no longer use this yeast because it isn't flocculant enough to meet our brewing needs. We discontinued this yeast early last year and replaced it with Wyeast 1968. We have successfully been able to get this yeast to ferment over 13% ABV and it flocs beautifully. The lab sheets aren't always accurate. If you treat the yeast correctly, it will work beyond what the spec sheets say.
- Some have said that less than 50% of the grain bill is your base malt. True/False?

That is true. I recently supplied that information in an email to another person interested in making Zhukov. You guys are good at sharing. That was only about 3 weeks ago. I guess I have to be careful about answering emails like this. Ha!
- The best bit of folk lore: "CCB fills their mash tun 3 times when brewing Hunahpu, and only uses the first runnings. When it reaches 17 Plato, they use the remaining sugars for other beers". If that one's true, major respect. That must make for a devilishly long brew day!

We mash in two to three times depending on which brew house we brew the beer on. We usually don't save the runnings to make another beer. If we do, it is for very small amounts on our pilot system. We usually just dump the residual runnings down the drain. Let me make this clear as well...this beer is an all malt beer. We don't add corn sugar or any other sugar to the kettle to boost the gravity. Target OG for this beer is 31-32 plato.
- Marshal Zhukov is or is not the base beer for Hunahpu.

Is the base beer.
- All EKG hops?

My, that would be expensive wouldn't it? I suggest using all Magnum. Hop character is not a big component of this beer. We use Magnum and hops that provide dark fruit/candy flavors.
- In your 2010 (?) interview with the Brewing Network, I believe you mentioned that you used cinnamon in the mash. Is that correct?

No. We don't use cinnamon in the mash. It is added post fermentation to secondary.
- Would you be willing to comment on the amounts/ratios of the secondary additions of cacao, cinnamon, ancho, pasilla?

I won't comment on amounts. I will fill in the gaps. Cacao(only from a certain region of the world), cinnamon(a specific type of cinnamon), ancho, pasilla, guajillo(all chiles dried and chopped) and vanilla beans(specific type).

Hopefully, you can fill in the gaps. Don't make my beer though. Make your beer. You version. Your idea. Who cares what I brew? Design something that is solely yours and pat yourself on the back.
 
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WhizardHat

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I like that he draws the line of "too expensive" at EKG hops, rather than a malt bill that is quite literally double that of most beers.

EDIT: Not to say I don't completely agree. It takes a lot of EKG to get to 80 IBU.
 

skibb

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Wayne's the man! Very helpful info! It's really cool brewers like him take the time to reply and, on top I that, do a good job at answering questions without giving too much away ;)
 
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WhizardHat

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Skibb, Were you the guy that Wayne was talking about having given the 50% grist number to?
 

skibb

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yup hah - he's onto us!

So - here's so far what I've come up with so far...
5.25 gallon batch (70% eff)
OG: 1.137 (31 P)
FG: 1.053 (13 P)
ABV: 11%

13# 4 oz Maris Otter - 47%
5# 8 oz Munich II - 20%
2# 14 oz Flaked Barley - 10%
2# Chocolate - 7%
2# Roasted Barley - 7%
14 oz Black Patent - 3%
14 oz Dark Crystal (Hugh Baird) 150L - 3%
14 oz Crystal Malt (Thomas Fawcett) 60L -3%
28.25# total

Boil for 90-120 minutes
3 oz Magnum (14% aa) @ 75 minutes - 80 IBU

Added in Secondary to make it Hunahpu'ish:
1 stick of Ceylon Cinnamon
1 Madagascar Vanilla Bean
4 oz Peruvian Cacao Nibs
1 oz Ancho Pepper (dried, deseeded, chopped)
.5 oz Pasillia Pepper (dried, deseeded, chopped)
.5 oz Guajillo (dried, deseeded, chopped)

The Hopville guy said his pepper presence was too pronounced with 2.5 oz total, so I scaled it back a little bit.

Not sure when I'm going to have the time to brew this up, but it is definitely on the queue
 
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WhizardHat

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My recipe looks pretty similar at this point. Our grain bills are different, but hey, that's what makes this fun.

49.5% 2 row
20% Victory
10% Chocolate
10% Roasted
5% Flaked oats
3% C60
1.7% Flaked Rye
.8% Special B

2.4oz Summit @60min

Secondary additions:
1 bourbon barrel
1/2 stick Cinnamon (Wayne kept saying "threshold levels")
1 Vanilla Bean
6 oz Cacao Nibs
1.5 oz Ancho
1/2 oz Pasillia

What kind of yeast are you going to use? I usually use dry yeast, and hate making starters, so I think I'll do an ESB first using some sort of liquid English thing, so I can pitch onto the cake.
 

kadijk

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This has been really fun to watch develop. Wayne gave a great answer to your questions, and shows his leadership in the brewing world with his encouragement to innovate. My question is, with that massive grain bill, are you considering splitting it in two and doing a double mash using the first runnings only?
 
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WhizardHat

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This has been really fun to watch develop. Wayne gave a great answer to your questions, and shows his leadership in the brewing world with his encouragement to innovate. My question is, with that massive grain bill, are you considering splitting it in two and doing a double mash using the first runnings only?
I agree, Wayne gave some great answers. When I first started reading, I was all "WTF, I didn't ask for the recipe?!" But then he went on to drop some great knowledge on me. Couldn't have asked for a better reply.

Great question. I'm set up to brew 10gallon batches, so I'll be using my normal rig, but on a 5gallon batch. I probably wouldn't even try it with a 5gallon rig. I like brewing and all that, but do I like brewing enough to fill a mash tun twice for a 5 gallon batch? Hard to say.
 

skibb

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Likely I will use Wyeast 1968 (a house favorite), brew up a mild and throw this sucker on top and aerate the hell out of it. My system is very high efficiency, so I don't see me splitting batches. I'm fairly confident I can get that high of an OG - especially if I sparge more and do a 2 hour boil. If not, I always have DME on hand.
 

sfrisby

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Wow! I don't know about the grain bill, but I will definitely attempt my next RIS brew day with the two first runnings/mash out into partygyle method.

And I would expect with an OG of 1.137 and proper pitch rate with oxygenation, that you could get that down to 1.030. 1.035 at least.
 

sfrisby

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kadijk said:
My question is, with that massive grain bill, are you considering splitting it in two and doing a double mash using the first runnings only?
That's what I'm doing. I will get 70% efficiency with that sized grain bill in BIAB. I'm afraid to test the pulley with that much wet grain so will do 2 batches, combine first runnings, then mash out with both and do a partygyle with that.
 

VSGLS1

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WhizardHat said:
My recipe looks pretty similar at this point. Our grain bills are different, but hey, that's what makes this fun.

49.5% 2 row
20% Victory
10% Chocolate
10% Roasted
5% Flaked oats
3% C60
1.7% Flaked Rye
.8% Special B

2.4oz Summit @60min

Secondary additions:
1 bourbon barrel
1/2 stick Cinnamon (Wayne kept saying "threshold levels")
1 Vanilla Bean
6 oz Cacao Nibs
1.5 oz Ancho
1/2 oz Pasillia

What kind of yeast are you going to use? I usually use dry yeast, and hate making starters, so I think I'll do an ESB first using some sort of liquid English thing, so I can pitch onto the cake.
Brewed this yesterday with MO instead of Victory. It's going balls out at the moment.

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skibb

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Nice!!! I can't wait to hear the results - and good idea on the sub...20% victory could easily overwhelm some of the other malts you have going on. From your pictures, I'm thinking I'm going to have to ferment my 5 gallon batch in my 1/2 bbl keg just cuz the krausen is going to easily gush out of my 6 gallon acid carboy
 

VSGLS1

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Yup, hope it doesn't repeat a mess while at work today. It has that dark brown/red residial color left everywhere that Marshal and Hunahpu in known for. Stepped up a 1L starter to 2L of 1968 over the weekend. We shall see where this finishes out.
 
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