A homemade yogurt thread

[Kent88]

I've been making yogurt for the past several months, and I have a simple tweak (my wife came up with it) that others probably have done but I don't hear about too frequently, I add dry milk powder.

While whey has all kinds of fantastic proteins, I really don't like runny yogurt, and I don't like seeing all that liquid after it separates out. I didn't like that I was pouring all that good stuff down the drain. I also don't care for the texture of the mass-produced greek yogurt I've tried.

So I add about 1.5 to 2 cups dry milk powder to make a final volume of 7.5 to 8 cups of a milk super-solution. I re-pasteurize the milk, pour it into some pint ball jars, let it cool to where I can touch the jar without worrying about it burning my hands, then add some Dannon yogurt as a starter, and incubate it in an insta-pot (it has a setting for it!) for 8-12 hours.

Then I'll put it in the fridge until I get hungry, and I'll put some fruit on it.

Here is some of my yogurt with rhubarb sauce and raspberries.

 

[Sadu]

So I just bought an Easiyo, I dunno if this is a local New Zealand thing or international, but basically a Supermarket yoghurt kit thing that you add sachets of milk powder + culture to.

I tried the Greek yoghurt ingredient pack, and honestly I'm blown away at how good it came out. I was expecting cheapish-tasting watery crap from the kit but this is totally on par with the mass-produced brands.

Definitely looking forward to having a play with some recipes to see what this thing is capable of. Or maybe I just stick with the kits, which seem totally fine and super-easy.

 

[FatDragon]

So I just bought an Easiyo, I dunno if this is a local New Zealand thing or international, but basically a Supermarket yoghurt kit thing that you add sachets of milk powder + culture to.

I tried the Greek yoghurt ingredient pack, and honestly I'm blown away at how good it came out. I was expecting cheapish-tasting watery crap from the kit but this is totally on par with the mass-produced brands.

Definitely looking forward to having a play with some recipes to see what this thing is capable of. Or maybe I just stick with the kits, which seem totally fine and super-easy.

As long as it's still got active cultures, store bought yogurt can serve as your starter too like OP mentioned. There are tons and tons of brands of yogurt on the market here in China, so when I make yogurt I find the ones I like and use them as starters to see if I can mimic the taste and texture, though it's harder than you might think to get the right milk and fermentation profile. We've got a few more cups of some really nice stuff in the fridge right now - I might try making a batch with one of them using the milk powder idea from the OP in the next couple days...

 

[passedpawn]

I've been making yogurt for the past several months, and I have a simple tweak (my wife came up with it) that others probably have done but I don't hear about too frequently, I add dry milk powder.

While whey has all kinds of fantastic proteins, I really don't like runny yogurt, and I don't like seeing all that liquid after it separates out. I didn't like that I was pouring all that good stuff down the drain. I also don't care for the texture of the mass-produced greek yogurt I've tried.

Good post - those raspberries got my juices flowing this AM already. Interesting idea of using the powdered milk!

You can further drain the yogurt to remove more of the why by using one of these sieves. I have one and have used it a lot - it works perfectly. It's for making greek yogurt, but it's up to you how long to drain it. Choose a store yogurt that you like to use as the starter.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0091XNL0I/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Kent88]

@passedpawn I don't really want to lose the whey if I don't have to, but I think that device would be helpful if I start making frozen yogurt like they do in this video:



I wish they had used something like berries instead of ginger. Handling the liquid seems important for making that turn out right, they toss 0.75cup whey and do things with the 0.5 cup that is left, but berries would then add a bunch of liquid. I wonder if I drained the whey, tossed all of it (or put it in smoothies, I don't like to "whey-st" it), and sugared some berries in a strainer over a bowl if I could do something like that...

 

[passedpawn]

@passedpawn I don't really want to lose the whey if I don't have to, but I think that device would be helpful if I start making frozen yogurt like they do in this video:



I wish they had used something like berries instead of ginger. Handling the liquid seems important for making that turn out right, they toss 0.75cup whey and do things with the 0.5 cup that is left, but berries would then add a bunch of liquid. I wonder if I drained the whey, tossed all of it (or put it in smoothies, I don't like to "whey-st" it), and sugared some berries in a strainer over a bowl if I could do something like that...

Try using xanthan gum to increase the whey viscosity. It's a natural thickener. I use it for a bunch of other stuff, might work great (and, maybe not )

You can't put berries in frozen deserts like ice cream without some preparation. They freeze and become ice cubes (ask me how I know). Purree'ing in the food processor is the easiest thing to do. Or, you can soak cut fruit in sugar solution overnight, or cook in a sugar solution, etc, but I've never done all that.

 

[bernardsmith]

@passedpawn I don't really want to lose the whey if I don't have to,

Here's the thing this whey is likely to be full of thermophilic bacteria and so a good source to inoculate any batch of milk you have for which you want to make appropriate cheese. You can use the whey as a stock in soups, or you can use it to make sorbets in place of water (blend 1 lb of frozen fruit or berries with 2 Cups of the whey and 1 Cup of sugar + some lemon juice). You might also consider using the whey to sour a mash (brewing) and then kill the bacteria in the mash tun by boiling and so prevent any cross contamination with non sour beers..

 

[Kent88]

You can't put berries in frozen deserts like ice cream without some preparation. They freeze and become ice cubes (ask me how I know). Purree'ing in the food processor is the easiest thing to do. Or, you can soak cut fruit in sugar solution overnight, or cook in a sugar solution, etc, but I've never done all that.

So maybe I

1. strain out the whey (and not add any of it back)
2. cut the fruit up, put it in a strainer over a bowl, put some sugar on it, which I have heard will pull out a lot of juice, and wait
3. cook down that juice a bit, and treat that like the whey
4. adjust further sugar additions based on what I have already added to the berries
5. blend up the less-hydrated sugared berries, and add them almost like they add the ginger?

Does that sound like it might work? Worth a shot at all?

 

[Kent88]

this whey is likely to be full of thermophilic bacteria and so a good source to inoculate any batch of milk you have for which you want to make appropriate cheese

I typically add yogurt whey to smoothies, but it could maybe go towards making some gruyere.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Adding the milk powder eliminates whey separation?

I've used probiotic pills to make yogurt; they last a lot longer in the fridge than keeping yogurt for a starter.

 

[Kent88]

Not eliminate, but it greatly reduces the amount of whey separation.

My year old son is eating a lot of yogurt for breakfast most days, so I buy about a quart of Dannon whole milk yogurt, inoculate, then use the store-bought for smoothies and I give him the homemade with fruit purees, and we go through enough that nothing is going bad.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Very cool, thanks for sharing!

 

[passedpawn]

So maybe I

1. strain out the whey (and not add any of it back)
2. cut the fruit up, put it in a strainer over a bowl, put some sugar on it, which I have heard will pull out a lot of juice, and wait
3. cook down that juice a bit, and treat that like the whey
4. adjust further sugar additions based on what I have already added to the berries
5. blend up the less-hydrated sugared berries, and add them almost like they add the ginger?

Does that sound like it might work? Worth a shot at all?

Haha, no idea But sounds like an awesome rainy day experiment.

 

[passedpawn]

Here's some yogurt I made for the wife. Strawberries in there. I use mason jars.

 

[passedpawn]

These are pretty tasty treats with yogurt. If you have a silicone ice cube tray, just mix some sugar and fruit into the yogurt and freeze for a snack.

 

[Kent88]

Making a new batch of yogurt this evening. Just giving them a water bath so the lactobacillus don't get too hot when I inoculate the milk.

 

[FatDragon]

You can further drain the yogurt to remove more of the why by using one of these sieves. I have one and have used it a lot - it works perfectly. It's for making greek yogurt, but it's up to you how long to drain it. Choose a store yogurt that you like to use as the starter.

Cheesecloth (or tofu cloth as they call it in China - learned that the hard way doing some online shopping as the distinction cost me an extra 15 minutes of searching) works well too, though it's probably a bit more of a mess to use than a dedicated strainer like that. My first time straining yogurt I went overnight and it was THICK. I almost had to chew it. As a reference for other yogurt newbies, an hour is already enough time to make a pretty viscous yogurt in my experience.

Try using xanthan gum to increase the whey viscosity. It's a natural thickener. I use it for a bunch of other stuff, might work great (and, maybe not )

Any suggestions on how to mix xanthan gum (into anything, yogurt or otherwise)? I've used it a few times with lacto hot sauces and my experience is basically to chuck it in, shake/mix as well as I can (but it's not going to do much good yet, it's just a bunch of chunks at this point), and then shake or mix the bottle every day or so for several days as it slowly dissolves and evens out. Is there a way to speed up the evening-out process?

You might also consider using the whey to sour a mash (brewing) and then kill the bacteria in the mash tun by boiling and so prevent any cross contamination with non sour beers..

I like this idea. I've used probiotic yogurt drinks (ala Yakult) for souring several times, but I've never been 100% happy with the results. Using whey might be a better option to avoid the milk fats and rancid smell I've noticed during these kettle sours (the final beer still ends up good), and if I use whey from my kefir it should give me a much greater mix of bugs for a more complex flavor and possibly a faster souring process.

 

[passedpawn]

Cheesecloth

A coffee filter works fine too. I like gadgets

Any suggestions on how to mix xanthan gum (into anything, yogurt or otherwise)?

I always sprinkle it in very slowly while stirring. That seems to work OK. It might be better to mix externally, as I do with corn starch, then add. It will clump if you add it all at once, and too much is kinda awful (stringy mucus stuff).

 

[passedpawn]

Any suggestions on how to mix xanthan gum (into anything, yogurt or otherwise)?

If you have trouble with xanthan in yogurt, consider trying gelatin. It'd probably do the same job in binding the excess whey and thickening. Gelatin needs to be heated over 105 to make it dissolve in water, then add to the yogurt while it's still warm. No idea how much, I'm riffing here.

 

[FatDragon]

If you have trouble with xanthan in yogurt, consider trying gelatin. It'd probably do the same job in binding the excess whey and thickening. Gelatin needs to be heated over 105 to make it dissolve in water, then add to the yogurt while it's still warm. No idea how much, I'm riffing here.

Not sure I would try xanthan in yogurt (I already get enough stringy mucus stuff in most of my yogurt as is), but gelatin might be worth a try next time I make it if I don't just stick to draining some whey if I still need to thicken it up after trying this milk powder trick. Gotta wait until my STC-1000 is free so I can hook it up to the slow cooker for temp control: I fill it halfway with water, turn the knob to warm, and set my desired temp on the temperature controller with the probe in the water bath. Maybe this could be motivation to wire the second one I bought a while ago - we're down to two cups left of the "ice cream yogurt" my wife bought and it's special-order stuff so if I don't use it soon to inoculate my own batch, it'll be gone before I can.

 

[bernardsmith]

One technique for thickening yogurt is to heat the milk at 180 F long enough to evaporate off some of the water. (heating the milk is often done to kill off any competing bacteria) Not sure if this won't damage the milk but I've read that some folk heat the milk for 30 minutes. You might want to add Ca Cl to this milk once it has cooled to the preferred temperature for inoculation (110 F)

 

[passedpawn]

One technique for thickening yogurt is to heat the milk at 180 F long enough to evaporate off some of the water. (heating the milk is often done to kill off any competing bacteria) Not sure if this won't damage the milk but I've read that some folk heat the milk for 30 minutes. You might want to add Ca Cl to this milk once it has cooled to the preferred temperature for inoculation (110 F)

On the other hand, if store-bought milk is used, you can probably skip the high temps altogether by getting Ultra High Temp (UHT) pasteurized milk. Organic milk is always UHT. Milk that is pasteurized this way always says so. I don't think it's a big deal to do the initial pasteurization, but just throwing the idea out there and seeing where it goes

 

[bernardsmith]

Yeah but here the point is not about "pasteurization" but about evaporation. The idea is that you are concentrating the proteins by removing the water and THAT will result in a thicker yogurt. Simply "pasteurizing" the milk at high temperatures for enough time to kill bacteria may leave you with 100 percent of the water so no thickening will be evident.

 

[passedpawn]

Yeah but here the point is not about "pasteurization" but about evaporation. The idea is that you are concentrating the proteins by removing the water and THAT will result in a thicker yogurt. Simply "pasteurizing" the milk at high temperatures for enough time to kill bacteria may leave you with 100 percent of the water so no thickening will be evident.

Right, I didn't meant to imply that. No idea why I quoted you. It was a random thought about yogurt making and skipping a step.

 

[Kent88]

I re-pasteurize everything. Being a homebrewer has made me paranoid about unwanted bugs getting in there.

 

[bernardsmith]

The thing about cheese making is that high temperatures destroy the protein chains that you want in the milk and high temperatures kills good cultures that are in the milk. In my opinion cheese making is like wine making - the least amount of heat damage to the flora and fauna of the products you are fermenting the better the outcomes are likely to be.

 

[Kent88]

When I said above that I re-pasteurize everything, I mean prior to inoculating with yogurt cultures.

@bernardsmith are you advocating for completely unpasteurized raw milk? I haven't used raw milk in yogurt, but I know that raw milk cheese has to be aged a minimum of 60 days.

 

[FatDragon]

On the other hand, if store-bought milk is used, you can probably skip the high temps altogether by getting Ultra High Temp (UHT) pasteurized milk. Organic milk is always UHT. Milk that is pasteurized this way always says so. I don't think it's a big deal to do the initial pasteurization, but just throwing the idea out there and seeing where it goes

I've always wondered if my yogurt comes out a bit slimy because I use UHT milk. My plan for the next try is to use fresh milk instead.

 

[passedpawn]

I've always wondered if my yogurt comes out a bit slimy because I use UHT milk. My plan for the next try is to use fresh milk instead.

No idea, but I can tell you that the high temps make this type of milk unusable for cheese.

 

[bernardsmith]

When I said above that I re-pasteurize everything, I mean prior to inoculating with yogurt cultures.

@bernardsmith are you advocating for completely unpasteurized raw milk? I haven't used raw milk in yogurt, but I know that raw milk cheese has to be aged a minimum of 60 days.

I may be wrong - I often am - but I believe the 60 day rule applies to those selling cheese. It's a legal requirement to reduce the possibility of serious, life threatening illness that can come from tainted milk but excluding anyone who is pregnant or whose immune system is compromised, my understanding is that if you can legally buy raw milk from a farm whose herd is certifiably healthy and whose processes are certifiably sanitary then there is no need to pasteurize such milk. The problem comes when dairies (not a single farm with a few dozen animals) mix milk from many herds, and one cow (or goat or sheep) from one herd is sick ...

 

[passedpawn]

I may be wrong - I often am - but I believe the 60 day rule applies to those selling cheese. It's a legal requirement to reduce the possibility of serious, life threatening illness that can come from tainted milk but excluding anyone who is pregnant or whose immune system is compromised, my understanding is that if you can legally buy raw milk from a farm whose herd is certifiably healthy and whose processes are certifiably sanitary then there is no need to pasteurize such milk. The problem comes when dairies (not a single farm with a few dozen animals) mix milk from many herds, and one cow (or goat or sheep) from one herd is sick ...

That 60-day rule applies to imports I think because it's illegal to sell raw milk for human consumption in the US.

I have made cheese from raw milk (I have a local source that sells cow and goat for pets). I heeded the 60-day rule, mostly because it's just part of my cheese timing, not out of health concern. It's awesome for cheesemaking.

 

[bernardsmith]

You may be right - but I think 21 C.F.R. part 133 refers to all raw milk cheese requiring 60 days aging despite the fact that recently the FDA has some evidence that such aging in fact is INEFFECTIVE when the milk (or cheese) has been exposed to certain pathogens (see for example - https://www.fda.gov/downloads/Food/ComplianceEnforcement/Sampling/UCM512217.pdf)
But dairy science is not my field and I may be talking through a hole in my head.

 

[Kent88]

Well dairy science (production and manufacturing) is my wife's field. There is a good reason for the 60 day wait period. I can't explain it myself, but despite her being in favor of raw milk products for herself (she used to love drinking raw milk when we'd visit family who have livestock, but she has been on a bit of a hiatus from that for the past couple years) she is pro-pasteurization when it comes to making things to sell to the public. What I do know is we've heard some horror stories of farms who have illegally sold raw milk products and got caught when people start getting sick.

When she does get started in a raw dairy products discussion usually I hear that you really need to trust that the farmers take cleanliness seriously more than the typical grade-A requirements; that they have a healthy herd with a low somatic cell count; and you need to make sure that you fulfill any legal obligations because I think that you can't just wonder onto a dairy farm with some cash and a milk jug and ask to buy some milk from the bulk tank, you might need to own a cow or a share in the farm.

And if a person who isn't used to raw milk starts drinking it their system might take a while to get used to it, and then you have to be concerned if those symptoms are just your body getting used to it or if there is a pathogen in the early stages of really messing you up.

@bernardsmith I've seen you around a lot on this forum, you seem like a nice person, I really don't want to hear about you getting a listeria infection. Please be careful.

 

[Kent88]

Here is the result of the yogurt I inoculated Wednesday evening.

It came out pretty thick, and there isn't much whey separation. It didn't hold together as well in the bowl as my last batch.

There were two notable variables between the two batches, how I re-pasteurized the milk and the length of fermentation. Last time I brought the temperature up to about 165 on the stove and took it off heat entirely. This time I brought it up to about 155 and put it in a 210 degree oven for half an hour while I prepared other stuff like jars and the workspace. Last time I let it ferment somewhere between 8-9 hours, this time it was a little over 14 hours.

I'm sure there are several other variables that might mess with the consistency, but those were the most obvious to me.

It still tastes good, and there isn't nearly the whey separation as in store-bought. Next time I think I will try bringing the temperature to 165 on the stove again and collect more data.

 

[bernardsmith]

and you need to make sure that you fulfill any legal obligations because I think that you can't just wonder onto a dairy farm with some cash and a milk jug and ask to buy some milk from the bulk tank, you might need to own a cow or a share in the farm.


@bernardsmith I've seen you around a lot on this forum, you seem like a nice person, I really don't want to hear about you getting a listeria infection. Please be careful.

I appreciate your good wishes and your concern. Here in NY I believe that it is quite legal to sell and buy raw milk but under strict conditions and I think that there is one farm (one) that is close by me that is permitted to sell such milk. That said, I very, very rarely buy raw milk - not least because it costs about twice the price of regular milk AND my cheese making techniques is not good enough for me to unequivocally state that I can tell which cheese was made from raw milk and which from treated milk: I use home made kefir to inoculate the milk with cultures and my kefir contains about 20 different bacteria and yeasts so there is a fair amount of complexity added when I allow the milk to ripen for an hour or so before I add rennet - and then to continue to ripen for several hours as I cook the curds and slowly remove more and more of the whey.

 

[FatDragon]

I did a batch a few days ago with the last cup of that yogurt ("Ice Cream Yogurt" with four different cultures and no vanilla, in spite of the name). 960 mL whole fresh (non-UHT) milk, 50 g milk powder, about 50 g yogurt, and about 40-50 g white sugar to sweeten. No repasteurization. Fermented around 12 hours at 39 degrees celsius. It came out awesome, a bit thicker than the source yogurt (like Greek yogurt thickness without needing to drain) and a tiny bit more sour. Whey separation is close to zero. It's miles ahead of my previous yogurt attempts (which I thought were alright but my wife didn't care much for). Got everything ready to make another batch tonight, but I plan on dropping the temperature a degree or so to see if a slower fermentation over the same time frame brings the sourness more in line with the original product.

 

[Kent88]

Neat stuff, Dragon. Think you'll make a little more this time, or do you usually make around a liter?

You add table sugar? I have wondered about adding honey or even fruit to pre-inoculated milk, but I've convinced myself that the lactobacillus will ferment that out as well and the fruit might even add unwanted microbes. Haven't verified those claims, though.

 

[FatDragon]

Neat stuff, Dragon. Think you'll make a little more this time, or do you usually make around a liter?

You add table sugar? I have wondered about adding honey or even fruit to pre-inoculated milk, but I've convinced myself that the lactobacillus will ferment that out as well and the fruit might even add unwanted microbes. Haven't verified those claims, though.

A liter is enough for a batch in my household, maybe even a bit much as my wife never gets around to eating it and always has some reason not to give yogurt to our 17 month-old son. I had most of the remainder of batch 1 this morning and it had soured well past my desired profile with a few extra days in the fridge.

Table sugar was in the first couple recipes I followed and it's in the ingredients list of just about every yogurt on the market, and when I forgot to add the sugar to one batch early on, the result was very tart and lacked almost any sweetness - not very pleasant unless I mixed it with a lot of fruit, and even then I wasn't really into it. I think that over time the sugar will ferment out, so the goal is to eat it before it does or to mix liberally with fruit or preserves if it's too late. I might leave the sugar out of the next batch and see how that goes.

 

[bpgreen]

I thought that the reason to heat the milk before inoculation is that heating it changed something in the proteins.

I've never added sugar, but I like tart/sour flavors.

 

[Kent88]

I rarely eat my yogurt plain, I always have to add fruit of some kind. I was adding homemade jam for a while, but lately I'm trying to add fruit without the sugar. Adding jam to yogurt was really cutting into our jam reserves, as it was probably about a 2:1 ratio of yogurt to jam for a while, so unless I completely fill our small chest freezer with jam, there is just no way I can make it work.

Adding plain sugar to yogurt doesn't really appeal to me, but maybe someday I should try adding a little honey...