a few beginners questions

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cosmokramer

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well im about to get started on my first batch. i have a couple questions though.


ive read so much about how sanitation is key to your beer turning out properly, but i was wondering, is there any way to tell if your equipment hasnt been sanitized enough? or if it were jeopardized and that your beer will turn out bad because of it? i just dont want to not properly sanitize my carboy or something and have my beer spoiled for that reason. Any tips?


also, because im limited on space im going to be bottling my beer after its done fermenting. i didnt want to bottle in 12oz bottles if i didnt have to. so my question is, are the grolsch style flip top bottles able to let your beer properly carbonate? would they work just as well as capping 12oz regular bottles. i'd prefer to use the grolsch style because it seems to be a bit more economic in terms of reusing the bottles. but if they wouldnt let my beer carbonate then i guess i must settle.

im a bit nervous, i dont really know what to expect, but your help would go a long way especially pertaining to the sanitation of my equipment.


thanks in advance guys.
 
i'd prefer to use the grolsch style because it seems to be a bit more economic in terms of reusing the bottles.

If buying bottlecaps presents a financial hardship, you are in the wrong hobby. Swingtop bottles are fine, but brown bottles protect beer better.
 
well im about to get started on my first batch. i have a couple questions though.


ive read so much about how sanitation is key to your beer turning out properly, but i was wondering, is there any way to tell if your equipment hasnt been sanitized enough? or if it were jeopardized and that your beer will turn out bad because of it? i just dont want to not properly sanitize my carboy or something and have my beer spoiled for that reason. Any tips?

I would say just take your time. If you are using a no rinse you can always dip in back in there if you are worried. I normally sanitize my better bottle and after I empty it I turn it upside down putting the mouth in the sanitizer. When I am ready to use it I keep a sanitized towel or a carboy cap on it.

also, because im limited on space im going to be bottling my beer after its done fermenting. i didnt want to bottle in 12oz bottles if i didnt have to. so my question is, are the grolsch style flip top bottles able to let your beer properly carbonate? would they work just as well as capping 12oz regular bottles. i'd prefer to use the grolsch style because it seems to be a bit more economic in terms of reusing the bottles. but if they wouldnt let my beer carbonate then i guess i must settle.

They will work fine.

im a bit nervous, i dont really know what to expect, but your help would go a long way especially pertaining to the sanitation of my equipment.


thanks in advance guys.

You will do just fine.
 
Typically a new brewer will have less of a chance to infect his brew through sanitation then an old veteran. Reason being that sometimes veterans have had so many non-infected brew he/she will get a little lazy. I hardly ever hear of new people having a sanitation problem.

One reason is that equipment is new. Remember - you don't have to be sterile. just sanitized.
 
Swing-top bottles work just fine, however, I can't see them as being more economic in any way. Bottle caps are not expensive, and unless they have improved the rubber gaskets that swingtops use, you will need to replace those at some point as well, plus the bottle is generally more expensive.

However, the swingtops are pretty cool and will work fine, so if you want to use them, go for it. At some point you will want to enter you beer into competition, if for nothing more than to get some good feedback. In that case you will need to have a couple of plain, straight-sided, unmarked bottles to submit your beer in.

If Ohio has a return law for bottles, you should be able to go to a bar or party store and ask if you can scrounge for empties. Offer to pay the deposit for them. I've found most places around here have no problem. One bar has even held guinness bottles for me.
 
You can check your sanitation. Simply take some wort before pitching, and put it in a jar or some tupperware and leave it on the counter. If it lasts 2 days without visible infection/fermentation, you did well. I forget if that experiment is in Papazain or Miller, but I believe I'm giving the gist of it.

Sanitizing doesn't sterilize, remember that. The important trick is pitching a huge amount of yeast as soon as possible to inoculate the wort. I bet if you cleaned things well and pitched a good sized starter, you wouldn't even have to sanitize the fermenter or equipment. Bleach is pretty cheap though, so the risk vs. reward to doing that is probably squarely on the side of sanitizing. But I do think a lot of what people do is overkill.
 
You have typical new brewer's nerves. You don't have to double check and test your sanitization, just follow your instructions about that, and sanitize your stuff, it will be fine.

It is really really hard to screw this up.

It may appear that there's a ton of infection threads, BUT if you actually read the content of the threads, and not just the title, you will realize that there's not a lot of actual infections, just a bunch of scared new brewers who don't realize how ugly fermentation can actually be.

Just like you, I bet, they think that their beer is a lot weaker than it truly is. Just the opposite, it is really really hard to get an infection.

And infections RARELY happen to the new brewers who are so paranoid that they think the mere looking at their fermenters will induce an infection.

Most of the time on here the beer in question is not infected. It's just a nervous new brewer, who THINKS something is wrong when in reality they are just unused to the ugliness that beer making often is.

It creates sort of like the hypochodria that med students often get when they start learning about illness, they start to "feel" it in themselves.

There is a lot of info here on "infections" https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/has-anyone-ever-messed-up-batch-96644/

This is one of the best posts on the subject....

If you pitch enough viable, healthy yeast to do their job, it's hard to contaminate your brew to the point it isn't drinkable. Trust me, I've had an infection in my brewery, and I had to work really hard to get it! :D In my case, it was on the fourth generation of re-using yeast which I had not washed properly (I was still a n00b back then). Every time you reuse yeast you are growing the level of contamination by 100-1000x, so I learned the hard way you have to be very careful going beyond 1 or 2 re-uses of yeast.

BUT A new brewer following sanitary procedures using new equipment is very unlikely to have ruined beer. The worst thing that may happen is your beer will go sour after 4-6 months of room temperature storage. I doubt your beer will last that long. :rolleyes:

You'll find that since beer has been made for millenia even before anyone understood germ theory, that even just the basic fact that we have indoor water, clean our living spaces and ourselves regularly and have closed waste systems, and a roof over our heads, that we are lightyears ahead of our ancestor brewers.

And despite the doomsayers who say that ancient beer was consumed young because it would go bad, they forget the fact that most of those beers were usually HOPLESS, and that the biggest reason hops were placed in beers was for it's antisceptic/preservative function.

So even if the beer had to be consumed young, it still must have tasted good enough to those folks most of the time to survive culturally for 4,000 years, and not go the way of pepsi clear or new coke. I'm sure even a few hundred or thousands of years ago, people were discerning enough to know if something tasted good or nasty...

Go take a look at my photo walkthrough of Labatt's first "pioneer" brewery from the 1840's https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f85/labatt-pioneer-brewery-128740/

Wood fermenters, open cooling pans, open doors, cracks in the logs and beams letting air in, and not one bottle of starsan in sight. :D

The way I figure even just having some soap and water, basic 21st century hygiene, and a basic understanding of germ theory trumps how it was done from Gilgamesh's time through Louis Pasteure's....

In most places we don't have to even worry about boiling our water before drinking it. :D

Best advice I have for new brewers, If you brew from fear, you won't make great beer!

You might make drinkable beer, or you might make crap...but until your realize that your beer is much hardier than you think it is, you will find that this is much more enjoyable of a hobby.

But infection worry, It is NOT something we have to freak out about, like new brewers do...It's just something to be AWARE of and keep an eye out.

But it's kinda like when you have a brand new car, you park at the far end of the lot away from everyone else, you are paranoid about getting every little scratch on it...Then you are backing out of the garage and take off a mirror, or get a ding on the bumper, then you no-longer stress out about it, because you've popped the cars cherry...If you do pick up a bug, you just treat it and move on.

And the reason I have collected THESE stories is to counter the fear and fear mongering that often happens.

So rather than looking for infections under every bed or in every brew closet, focussing from fear on the negative, I think it's better to look at examples of just how hard it is to screw up our beer, how no matter what we can do to screw up, it still manages to turn out fine.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/wh...where-your-beer-still-turned-out-great-96780/

And there is a cushion of co2 protecting your beer, so unless you or a bird take a crap in your fermenter, opening it up to take hydrometer readings will not lead you to automatically have infections...

Just relax about infections, and enjoy brewing. It's a hobby, not something to stress out on and worry that your beer will die if you look at it wrong.

:mug:
 
haha right on everyone thanks.

i might have been misunderstood about the bottle situation however. i dont mind using 12oz capable bottles, but taking bottles to share with friends and the drinking at home make me think that i'll be scrounging for more next time i want to bottle. i didnt ever think about asking a bar for bottles, has anyone done this? how'd you approach it? we dont have a bottle return here in ohio. i just figured with flip top grolsch style bottles i would probably be a bit more careful and more likely to save the bottles, therefore not needing to replace so much when it came time to bottle again.


bottle caps are of no concern hahaha. but im interested in how people got bottles from bars and such. i'd like to do that, but im sure the bars would look at me crazy and laugh. i'd be willing to pay though.

and before i forget, i read that when you cap 12oz brown bottles you need to have "capable bottles" not the budweiser screw off cap bottles. is that true? i dont want to find a bar that would save me bottles and then i get them home and realize i have 100 screw top bud light bottles. thanks in advance guys!
 
but im interested in how people got bottles from bars and such. i'd like to do that, but im sure the bars would look at me crazy and laugh. i'd be willing to pay though.

You tell them you're a homebrewer, and ask them for bottles. It's that simple.

Also get some micro brews, just about every brewer is a crown cap. It's a good excuse to try different craft brews to see what you like, you can have a bash with 2 cases of sam adams...

Also, you will be surprised at how many people will give you bottles once you put the word out you are homebrewing, especially if you promise to give them a few of your own..Friends, neighbors, coworkers... A lot of people put non-twist off beer, wine, champaign bottles, even flip tops aside for me...even grabbing any they me see on their travels.

There's also freecycle and craigslist. :mug:
 
And this is why Revvy is a well-respected guru of the community. He knows of what he speaks.

And, yeah, just stay away from the twist caps. We had a bunch arrive at a local competition and probably 70% had lost their contents. Caps are necessary and it is brewer's choice as to 'crown caps' or 'EZ-Cap'/'Grolsch' style flip caps. Me, I love the latter but it is an additional added expense off the top which is a 'permanent' cost, as opposed to using caps and tossing.

I, too, was/am a paranoid brewer. Because I've had some 'infection-indicative' off-flavours in my last few batches so I'm just trying to figure out where it is stemming from and that's always fun. Then again, if you're a NEW brewer, the saying goes:

If you brew something and it turns out so that you can drink it, you have succeeded.
If you brew something and it turns out so that your friends can drink it and don't spew, you have succeeded.
If you brew something and it turns out so that you can take it to a local brew club of knowledgeable 'judge-type' brewers and they give it a thumbs up, you have succeeded.

If you haven't brewed any/much, how will you KNOW something has gone wrong unless you 'see' bad stuff / mold growing (very very rare)--usually at the early stages of brewing it is like / dislike on a finished product. Could be the kit, could be the ingredients, could be the style...could be many basic things non 'sanitization' related.

But for the luvva... just follow instructions on cleaning and sanitizing and if you're using a chlorine-based cleaner/sanitizer...rinse rinse rinse rinse rinse. Don't leave your equipment laying around with junk in it to start growing. Rinse your bottles well after consumption. All good steps to follow.

For taking beer to friends/having friends over, you can always bottle in big plastic bottles (or big glass if you can find 'em). Here in Canada, an empty (COLOURED NOT CLEAR) 2L pop---or soda for you lads--- bottle works great for 'party time'.

Good luck. And I had to say it---don't worry. relax. have a homebrew!
 
haha thanks guys. ill try to find some crown cap bottles. everyone of my friends drinks twist off for the most part and nobody else in my house drinks so im going at it alone. might need the bar, yeah.
 
You might check with a local recycling center, if you have one, and see if they will let you scrounge. Otherwise, as Revvy says, just go into a few establishments, tell them you homebrew, and ask if you can rifle through their empties. I have a hard time believing they would not let you. It's as easy for them to let you take them, as to let the distributor take them.

I like the Guinness Draught bottles BTW. Easy to strip the plastic label off the outside, and pull the widget out with needlenose pliers. No soaking to get the label off!
 
yeah apparently no recycling centers around my house. i think im going to just purchase some unused bottles to begin with and as i go along, replenish the supply with bottles of stuff ive bought from the store.
 
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