A couple questions about mypin t4 and pt 100 probe

[evan5159]

Went back to this ( no smoke)


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[augiedoggy]

I got advice from here on how to wire it up .... I used the search function and found a thread explaining it.... bremauster gave the same wiring advice and wired his up the same way as me did he not? After looking through my paperwork I do see what you mean now though.

 

[evan5159]

I have spent the free time of my past six months working and reading on this and have a firm grasp of how the system works. The damaged pt 100 was throwing me off which was why I asked for help


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[augiedoggy]

Honestly I had three different types of pics and a forth brand of timer... the engrish was soon bad on most of the documentation I searched Online for most of my wiring schematics to double check them... I had the my pins sensors wired the other way according to the manual (so I though) and they did not read correctly and that's when I found a thread here explaining how to wire them the way I did. Maybe the jumper is required the other way? As I found out today you don't need any jumper if you put the single colored wire on 7 and the other two on 8 and 9 I guess its the complete opposite of what pwm did with reversed wires but as stated it doesn't matter.

 

[evan5159]

Too bad we don't live close to one another so we could get hammered and talk about this in person


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[mattd2]

Went back to this ( no smoke)


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Sorry, forgot that that was your photo already
Still can't understand the smoke when wired "correctly"? Nothing with the sensor side should draw enogh current to pop a breaker - unless you coincidently also had a stray wire leak to ground, that was then moved when you rewired it.

 

[augiedoggy]

Too bad we don't live close to one another so we could get hammered and talk about this in person


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Lol... I actually have extra sensors and pids I could have just brought to figure it out.
I went through quite a bit of changes after learning the hard way why one way or device was better than another....
Someone should really make a pid and sensor comparison thread as a sticky... I think there would be more people purchasing the td4 my pin over the auger if there was a real side by side review of the features and functionality... and I bought a k type sensor before I learned rtd was the way to go.

 

[Brumateur]

Pwm's connection is incorrect because it disable wire resistance compensation. But as it was mentioned on short cable. it doesn't create noticeable differnce. Terminal 10 is used for 4 wire connection. Jumper between 7 and 10 when used with 3 wire probe also breakes wire resisttivity compensation. But again with short probe cable it doesn't really matter.

 

[pwm74]

I too started out with a k type, on the same mypin. the temp was all over the place. I got frustrated and got a pt100

 

[mattd2]

Pwm's connection is incorrect because it disable wire resistance compensation. But as it was mentioned on short cable. it doesn't create noticeable differnce. Terminal 10 is used for 4 wire connection. Jumper between 7 and 10 when used with 3 wire probe also breakes wire resisttivity compensation. But again with short probe cable it doesn't really matter.

So all the Mypin documentation is wrong? i'm not being snide there, I just want to get you thoughts as I would not be shocked if it was to be the case. What is the basis of the claim, since pwm has it wired and working his way?
As per the documentation the way you have wired it does not enable the compensation, the diagram clearly shows the twon wires attached to the same side of the RTD going to 7 & 10.
I still have my K-type onm a Sestos, no issues with it... I'm moving over to an Arduino and a DS18B20 soon though

 

[Brumateur]

Pt-100 is thermoresistor , K is thermocouple and it's completely different beast. Thermocouple generate voltage on temperature difference. So it works good when measures.many hundreds degree. In our case temperature difference between thermocuple's end and ambient is around one hundred degree only. Voltage generated by thermocouple is low and to measure it precisely you need expensive equipment.

 

[pwm74]

Pwm's connection is incorrect because it disable wire resistance compensation. But as it was mentioned on short cable. it doesn't create noticeable differnce. Terminal 10 is used for 4 wire connection. Jumper between 7 and 10 when used with 3 wire probe also breakes wire resisttivity compensation. But again with short probe cable it doesn't really matter.

can you the simply explain the manual diagram as well as the sticker affixed to the side of MYPIN. I know its Chinese badly translated to English, because my pid is running spot on using the diagram and sticker only and intermediate wiring skills as my pics prove

 

[mattd2]

Lol... I actually have extra sensors and pids I could have just brought to figure it out.
I went through quite a bit of changes after learning the hard way why one way or device was better than another....
Someone should really make a pid and sensor comparison thread as a sticky... I think there would be more people purchasing the td4 my pin over the auger if there was a real side by side review of the features and functionality... and I bought a k type sensor before I learned rtd was the way to go.

My rough take on them all is:

Auber:
High price
°C or F
Manual mode (check model)
Good documentation

MyPin:
Low price
°C or F (I stand corrected )
Manual mode (check model)
Crap documentation

Sestos:
Low price
°C only
Manual mode
Sketchy documentation
Potential issue with low control period values

REX
DO NOT BUY especially off ebay as you have a 75% chance of not getting what you think your getting

 

[mattd2]

can you the simply explain the manual diagram as well as the sticker affixed to the side of MYPIN. I know its Chinese badly translated to English, because my pid is running spot on using the diagram and sticker only and intermediate wiring skills as my pics prove

Since the cable on the sensors are only 3m or so I doubt you would see a difference in either way of wiring. But for now I think you wiring is "correct" for the wire compensation, until proven otherwise

 

[pwm74]

Pt-100 is thermoresistor , K is thermocouple and it's completely different beast. Thermocouple generate voltage on temperature difference. So it works good when measures.many hundreds degree. In our case temperature difference between thermocuple's end and ambient is around one hundred degree only. Voltage generated by thermocouple is low and to measure it precisely you need expensive equipment.

the k type came in the setup. I believe you are right, It was all over the place

 

[pwm74]

your right mattd2 , but the MYPIN does have the option for either celcius or Fahrenheit

 

[augiedoggy]

yup I have a rex too and replaced it yesterday with another TD4 series... theres basically the "TA" series is the same as the "TD" series except the TD series has manual mode and the last digit like the "4" represents form factor...(1/16 Din) I also have a TA7 and its much larger. the "SNR" is what one wants for ssr and relay control capabilities...

My rex worked well with the pt-100 to measure but it was all celcius and I never attempted to control an ssr with it.

 

[mattd2]

Pt-100 is thermoresistor , K is thermocouple and it's completely different beast. Thermocouple generate voltage on temperature difference. So it works good when measures.many hundreds degree. In our case temperature difference between thermocuple's end and ambient is around one hundred degree only. Voltage generated by thermocouple is low and to measure it precisely you need expensive equipment.

I have a TC on a PID for wort and it measures fine and is stable - most issues I have seen are from how the sensor is mounted not what type it is. The biggest hassle with TC I see is that yu can't just simply exstend the cable or use standard plugs.

 

[big_len]

Out of the box, ALL temperature sensors are inaccurate. If the device hasn't had a multi-point calibration then your actaul values are meaningless in any case, be it a thermocouple, NTC thermistor or PT100. In the absence of proper calibration, what matters is repeatability and the difference in numbers you are getting - if you find a batch is too fruity/estery, after controlling fermentation temps, then you know you just need a lower number than the one you had; the actual number itself doesn't matter.

I recently brought my pen type thermometer and PID with PT100 into work and tested them with our thermowell and calibrated pt100. At room temperature, the pen was under by 3 degC and the PID was with 0.5 degC but at 100 degC the pen was within 1 degC and the PID was out by over 8 degC.

While this may seem alot, the 4 wire pt100 probes we use for research in work cost a lot more than these normal homebrew sensors and the DAQ system cost the same as a family car and we are still easily calibrating by +- 2 degC on a regular basis.

 

[mattd2]

Out of the box, ALL temperature sensors are inaccurate. If the device hasn't had a multi-point calibration then your actaul values are meaningless in any case, be it a thermocouple, NTC thermistor or PT100. In the absence of proper calibration, what matters is repeatability and the difference in numbers you are getting - if you find a batch is too fruity/estery, after controlling fermentation temps, then you know you just need a lower number than the one you had; the actual number itself doesn't matter.

I recently brought my pen type thermometer and PID with PT100 into work and tested them with our thermowell and calibrated pt100. At room temperature, the pen was under by 3 degC and the PID was with 0.5 degC but at 100 degC the pen was within 1 degC and the PID was out by over 8 degC.

While this may seem alot, the 4 wire pt100 probes we use for reasearch in work cost a lot more than these normal homebrew sensors and the DAQ system cost the same as a family car and we are still easily calibrating by +- 2 degC on a regular basis.

Not trying to derail this to far but, what do you use to calibrate the lab sensor?

 

[big_len]

Not trying to derail this to far but, what do you use to calibrate the lab sensor?

It's a ceramic filled pt100 that is calibrated in a lab out-of-house. My colleague (actually my colleague, not me!) toasted our one a few months back by exceeding its temperature limit and the bill for the replacement sensor and the new calibration certificate (so not including the actual box that reads it as this was still OK) was £800 (~$1300).

I'm also not meaning to derail the thread either with mentioning all this stuff - my point is that it is not worth obsessing over the accuracy of your sensor; it's all about making some beer and building some experience

 

[augiedoggy]

It's a ceramic filled pt100 that is calibrated in a lab out-of-house. My colleague (actually my colleague, not me!) toasted our one a few months back by exceeding its temperature limit and the bill for the replacement sensor and the new calibration certificate (so not including the actual box that reads it as this was still OK) was £800 (~$1300).

I'm also not meaning to derail the thread either with mentioning all this stuff - my point is that it is not worth obsessing over the accuracy of your sensor; it's all about making some beer and building some experience

well if its saying 402 degrees at room temp I'd say some steps should be taken to make sure its wired correctly and get it close...
I have analog thermometers mounted in my kettles and the have always been within a degree or two of what my pids are saying...I admit I'm not comparing them all that often though.

 

[evan5159]

As I have not brewed with this system I had planned on having my trusty thermometer testing the waters. I will make adjustments where needed. Is there a way to adjust readings if needed?


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[big_len]

There usually is a way to apply a single offset to all value measured in these devices - although I am not familiar with the MyPin. So you can set a value of, say, +2 and it will add 2 to all of your readings.

But this isn't a great solution as the error will change based on the temperature. Taking the example of my PID with a PT100 that I mentioned - when using it for fermentation control, I just set the value exactly, as it reads close enough at room temp. When I use it for my HLT, if I want 80 degC water I set it to 86 degC because it is out at these higher temps. Putting on a single offset value of -6 degC would solve one but break the other - so just make notes and adjust the set value yourself.

You can also easily put the sensor in boiling water to see how close it is at higher temps. Unless you live at the top of a mountain, boiling water should be close enough to 100C/212F for all the accuracy homebrewing will ever need.

 

[evan5159]

Not using for ferm control. Running my HLT


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[jeffmeh]

Set the offset in the PID so that the temp reads correctly (or very close) at mash temperatures, and you should be fine. But I agree, adjust your mash temps (or adjust it with your offset value) based upon your actual results.

 

[mattd2]

can you the simply explain the manual diagram as well as the sticker affixed to the side of MYPIN. I know its Chinese badly translated to English, because my pid is running spot on using the diagram and sticker only and intermediate wiring skills as my pics prove

The "correct" wiring has really been bothering me
So much so i went through the Auber manual and following this logic:
The variable resistor is connect ove the same pins as the TC - so for the MyPin that is 7&8.
The the extra lead is connected to the space next to the TC input, so 9 on the MyPin.
No other connections. So this could be the reason for the advice around here. As I said I wouldn't be shocked to find out MYPin's docs are wrong but I haven't seen any "solid" proof of that yet, as it could well be that the pins arn't in the same arangment on the MyPin. But this still doesn't explain the need for a jumper??????

 

[evan5159]

Got my new pt100 today!
http://www.auberins.com/


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[augiedoggy]

Got my new pt100 today!
http://www.auberins.com/


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so is everything working correctly now that this ones not scorched with a torch?

 

[evan5159]

Haven't assembled yet. But will update


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