A Corny keg as a bottle?

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aamcle

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I was reading the interesting "ferment and serve from keg" thread and I thought I'd seek comments/advice on my procedure.

I ferment in a Brewmeister plastic FV on completion of the cold crash I give my keg a short blast of Co2 and run the wort via a tube into the keg through the beer out port or just a tube that reaches the bottom of the keg.
Once full I'll add some priming sugar and a little gelatin give it a quick flush with Co2, seal it up and keep it warm for a few days (10) to carbonate.

Chill, wait and serve.

It's not an oxygen free closed transfer so not suitable for hop monsters but so far it's worked well, I've noticed no oxidation , it's very little trouble and saves some Co2.

The other benefits are easy yeast recovery from the FV and dry hopping without issue.

ATB aamcle
 
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DannyBoy270

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I was reading the interesting "ferment and serve from keg" thread and I thought I'd seek comments/advice on my procedure.

I ferment in a Brewmeister plastic FV on completion of the cold crash I give my keg a short blast of Co2 and run the wort via a tube into the keg through the beer out port or just a tube that reaches the bottom of the keg.
Once full I'll add some priming sugar and a little gelatin give it a quick flush with Co2, seal it up and keep it warm for a few days (10) to carbonate.

Chill, wait and serve.

It's not an oxygen free closed transfer so not suitable for hop monsters but so far it's worked well, I've noticed no oxidation , it's very little trouble and saves some Co2.

The other benefits are easy yeast recovery from the FV and dry hopping without issue.

ATB aamcle
Makes sense to me. I've thought of carbing in the keg for certain styles but just haven't yet lol Two things that stuck out to me though:

1 - I'm surprised you're getting much out of the gelatin as I've always heard it's not really effective at temps above 50F. During the 10days you're letting it sit warm/carbonate you'd think it'd just settle out on the bottom of your keg.

2 - As far as oxidation goes, I've always been under the impression that naturally carbing has to reduce DO to some extent as the yeast would make use of it as it consumes the priming sugar. No idea if thats really true, but I've been told so more than once & it makes sense to me anyway haha

Lastly do you use a floating dip tube with this? Seems like the way to go imo. I have one I've used mostly for closed transfers and recently bought a little filter attachment for it as well.

Cheers 🍻
 

VikeMan

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2 - As far as oxidation goes, I've always been under the impression that naturally carbing has to reduce DO to some extent as the yeast would make use of it as it consumes the priming sugar. No idea if thats really true, but I've been told so more than once & it makes sense to me anyway haha

While carbonating with priming sugar, yeast will use some of the O2, but not all of it, unless it started at a very low level. i.e. much lower than you'd get as a result of an open transfer. The best way to avoid oxidation is to keep oxygen out of the beer.
 

odie

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If he's "flushing" the keg with CO2 after filling it with beer to seat/seal the lid, the amount of oxygen in the keg is minimal. Air is only 21% oxygen to start with. Most all that air will be expelled if he bleeds the PRV after the first CO2 blast to seal the lid. Not completely bleed it but say he seals the lid with 30 PSI and then bleeds it down to 5 PSI.

When I was fermenting and then kegging, I would fill the keg, seal it with 60 PSI, bleed to 5 PSI and repeat 3-4 times. Basically there was negligible oxygen left in the keg's headspace. Like 0.0? %

Any priming sugar will have the yeast use what little O2 remains, if any
 

Golddiggie

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You'll have more sediment in the keg by doing this.

Personally, I just use CO2 (from bottle) to carbonate my beers and don't worry about it. With priming the keg, you'll also need to check the carbonation level before you move it to chill. Since time to carbonate is not a set time frame. Sometimes it can take less time, others it will take more. The two week time frame is a spitball guidance. As in "it SHOULD be carbonated in X days". Even using the two week 'set and forget' method is a guidance, not a hard and fast number. Same with using carbonation stones.
 
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aamcle

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I bottle 90%+ of what I brew 10 days has never failed even when I have lagered before bottling and that is approaching 100 batches in all.
It's not perfect WRT CO2 but it works obviously there is some yeast at the bottom but I've never noticed an issue with off flavours.

What I have found is that it's easier to get the carbonation level right with a priming charge.


aamcle
 

VikeMan

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If he's "flushing" the keg with CO2 after filling it with beer to seat/seal the lid, the amount of oxygen in the keg is minimal. Air is only 21% oxygen to start with. Most all that air will be expelled if he bleeds the PRV after the first CO2 blast to seal the lid. Not completely bleed it but say he seals the lid with 30 PSI and then bleeds it down to 5 PSI.

When I was fermenting and then kegging, I would fill the keg, seal it with 60 PSI, bleed to 5 PSI and repeat 3-4 times. Basically there was negligible oxygen left in the keg's headspace. Like 0.0? %

We may have different ideas about what negligible means, but it takes a lot of purging at high pressures to bring headspace O2 levels down to "negligible" IMO. Here's a chart, which may have been originally built by @doug293cz. Multiply the answers by 1,000 to get PPB. In your example, 4 purges at 60 PSI, the chart doesn't go up to 60 PSI, but the math behind it isn't very hard. In round terms, you'd end up with about 315,000 PPB (or 315 PPM).

ppm-o2-after-purge-table-png.402029
 

PCABrewing

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I was reading the interesting "ferment and serve from keg" thread and I thought I'd seek comments/advice on my procedure.

I ferment in a Brewmeister plastic FV on completion of the cold crash I give my keg a short blast of Co2 and run the wort via a tube into the keg through the beer out port or just a tube that reaches the bottom of the keg.
Once full I'll add some priming sugar and a little gelatin give it a quick flush with Co2, seal it up and keep it warm for a few days (10) to carbonate.

Chill, wait and serve.

It's not an oxygen free closed transfer so not suitable for hop monsters but so far it's worked well, I've noticed no oxidation , it's very little trouble and saves some Co2.

The other benefits are easy yeast recovery from the FV and dry hopping without issue.

ATB aamcle
The only suggestion I have is that you might consider adding the prime before you start the fill. That may give you a little better mix than adding on top of the beer by the swirling caused when filling.
But after probably works well for kegging if you agitate the filled and sealed keg well.
 

Golddiggie

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I bottle 90%+ of what I brew 10 days has never failed even when I have lagered before bottling and that is approaching 100 batches in all.
It's not perfect WRT CO2 but it works obviously there is some yeast at the bottom but I've never noticed an issue with off flavours.

What I have found is that it's easier to get the carbonation level right with a priming charge.


aamcle
In the past I used the 'two week set and forget' method with great results. Once I got the conical fermenters, I started using the carbonation stone (ordered at the same time from Spike). They say '24 hours' for time to carb fully (again, a general guidance). I let it go a few days and then package. Part goes to keg, balance goes to can. Not had any issues with carbonation being correct at time of packaging.

IMO, using priming sugar is less precise than using CO2 under pressure. Especially if you don't try to rapid force carbonate (high pressure levels).
 

odie

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well here's the dilemma...CO2 is 2 parts Oxygen to one part Carbon...hmm
 

VikeMan

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well here's the dilemma...CO2 is 2 parts Oxygen to one part Carbon...hmm

I think you're joking, but for anyone who might not get the joke... CO2 doesn't separate into elemental Carbon and Oxygen in beer.
 

odie

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well lets hope it doesn't...lol

how will I ever get some fizz?
 

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