A bit of a dilemma

[redrocker652002]

So Austin Homebrew Supplies just sent me a 20% off code on all items. I have a $60 gift card my son gave me years ago. So here is my dilemma.

Now that I am soon to be a proud owner of he Grainfather I was looking at accessories for it. They have a hop plate that sits at the bottom of the unit that supposedly keeps a lot of the hop matter from getting pumped into the wort at transfer time. It retails for about 90 bucks I think. With the 20% off it gets it down to about 70 dollars, so net to me is about 10 bucks. Not bad huh?

Well, if I get a generic hop spider I can add a spunding valve to the order and it still comes out net to me about 15 dollars. So, my thought is, get the generic spider then I can use it on any of my currents rigs and add a spunding valve if I should need to do pressure fermentation.

What do you all think? I want to use the gift card for equipment so this is a good time to use it. Throw another wrench into the mix, I can add a refractometer to the mix and pay a bit more but have that as well, but, I already have one that seems to be working well just don't know how to adjust it if needed

What is your opinion? I appreciate all input.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

So Austin Homebrew Supplies just sent me a 20% off code on all items. I have a $60 gift card my son gave me years ago. So here is my dilemma.

Now that I am soon to be a proud owner of he Grainfather I was looking at accessories for it. They have a hop plate that sits at the bottom of the unit that supposedly keeps a lot of the hop matter from getting pumped into the wort at transfer time. It retails for about 90 bucks I think. With the 20% off it gets it down to about 70 dollars, so net to me is about 10 bucks. Not bad huh?

Well, if I get a generic hop spider I can add a spunding valve to the order and it still comes out net to me about 15 dollars. So, my thought is, get the generic spider then I can use it on any of my currents rigs and add a spunding valve if I should need to do pressure fermentation.

What do you all think? I want to use the gift card for equipment so this is a good time to use it. Throw another wrench into the mix, I can add a refractometer to the mix and pay a bit more but have that as well, but, I already have one that seems to be working well just don't know how to adjust it if needed

What is your opinion? I appreciate all input.

Everything you're talking about makes great sense and you should try taking advantage of the 20% off on items you know you're going to use. A gift cards lowers your initial cost even more.

A spunding valve and a refractometer are good investments. I have both and use them with every brew even though I don't use a grain father system.

Perhaps there's some ingredients or other consumables you could get too?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

the background story: a number of years ago I bought a pair of digital scales (50 g max, 0.001g accuracy). One is in the brew day box, the other is in the bottling day box. Today, the brew day box scale went 'wonky' (mini cupcake liners are 0.187 g and the 'brew day box' scale was wrong). The 'bottling day' box scale allowed the brew day to move forward.

Throw another wrench into the mix, I can add a refractometer to the mix and pay a bit more but have that as well, but, I already have one that seems to be working well just don't know how to adjust it if needed

If the goal is to reduce "single points of failure" for a brew day, then a 2nd refractometer would be reasonable. An approach that rotates them periodically (one 'active', the other 'standby') with periodic calibration seems reasonable.. I currently have only one refractometer, but your "wrench in the mix" thought may cause me to buy a 2nd (and review my process for other "single point of failure" items).

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Own a couple refractometer is fine but I think owning one and a hydrometer is better. If I suspect one I can check it against the other. I own a couple hydrometers.

 

[RyPA]

I have a refractometer and hydrometer, i always measure with both and find that the hydrometer is more reliable/accurate.

 

[IslandLizard]

A 2nd refractometer seems overkill. How could you break them?
Now a decent (~$10-15) hydrometer is essential.

The better hydrometers have a somewhat longer, all white scale. They're pretty much the same price as the "triple-scale" multi color ones.
Because of the longer scale there's somewhat larger spacing, making them easier to read than the multi-color ones* that usually come with a useless (potential) %alcohol scale. Brix (and SG) are the only 2 scales you'd need on a hydrometer.

Plus a backup. That seems the best way to deter the other one(s) from (self-)destruction.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I have no experience using the GF hop filter, but I do use my SS mesh hop spider with no problem in the grainfather . When one can get 2 useful items for the price of one, it’s a pretty clear advantage to get the two items.

 

[IslandLizard]

One thing about "generic" hop spiders is that they hang from the kettle rim.
Hop baskets (spiders) only work when they're (mostly) submerged, so make sure most or at least enough of it is down in the wort during the boil. It also depends on your wort level.

 

[Bramling Cross]

I agree with Lizard, I've monkeyed around with plenty of hop spiders and not all are created equally. I've never tried a rim mounted cylinder spider, but I just don't see how it would be any good. If you put six-eight ounces into one of those things it's just going to create an impregnable wall of hops that the wort flows around. Personally, I've gone back to going commando, even with a whirlpooling rig--just toss your hops in, give them 5mins to dissolve, 10 to be safe, then kick your pump on. No clogs, guaranteed.

Does Austin Brew Supply sell grain bags for the Grainfather? I've taught several brewers how to brew on AIO units and it always seems necessary to use a bag to coax some proper efficiency out of them. That said, I've never taught anyone with a Grainfather--they're kinda the Rolls Royce of AIOs. Perhaps they don't need a bag to hit their numbers?

A dedicated sparge water heater is a nice luxury, but hardly necessary for AIO brewing.

Honestly, I'd keep your powder dry. Run a few batches on the Grainfather and let it tell you what it needs.

Edit: Do you have a mill? If not, that's a no-brainer place to dump that money. You'll get waaaay better efficiency by crushing your own grain, especially with an AIO.

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

A 2nd refractometer seems overkill. How could you break them?

FWIW, the context for speculating on a 2nd refractometer was reducing "single points of failure" for a brew day.

and an update: I was able to fix my brew day scale (50 g max, 0.001g accuracy) - after the brew day - by taking it apart and cleaning it. So having a 2nd scale (in the bottling box) was worth the cost. And those mini cup cake holders clearly "poka yoke"'d the process (0.187 g every. single. time. until the scale goes wonky).

Point?: having a spare made the brew day stress free.

Now a decent (~$10-15) hydrometer is essential.

Also in roughly that price range is a six-pack (12 oz), a 4-pack (16 oz), and a number of refractometers at that USA-based online store.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Also in roughly that price range is a six-pack (12 oz), a 4-pack (16 oz), and a number of refractometers at that USA-based online store.

As much as I wish it were otherwise, there is no substitute for a damned hydrometer--and that USA-based online store ain't selling USA made refractometers with change left over for a sixer.

 

[Graham H]

I feel like hydrometers and refractometers are each well suited to a particular role. Knowing when to use each is akin to selecting a screwdriver or hammer for a bit of handiwork.

My refractometer is great at getting low-volume (a few drops) accurate OG readings.
It also gives me precise but inaccurate readings (again, at the cost of a few drops sample size). Why use an inaccurate measuring tool? I don’t use it to find my FG, but instead to confirm the FG has stopped changing, signaling the end of active fermentation. So, precision is important, but not accuracy.

Once I know the FG is stable, I then pull a larger sample for my hydrometer, thereby getting my accurate FG.
If you are fermenting small batches (I often do 1-1.25 gal test batches), a series of hydrometer readings could cost a noticeable portion of your final volume.

If you normally brew larger batches, the few times you pull a hydrometer sample probably won’t make a big change to your final volume. And if I had to choose one tools over the other, the hydrometer wins hands down.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I feel like hydrometers and refractometers are each well suited to a particular role. Knowing when to use each is akin to selecting a screwdriver or hammer for a bit of handiwork.

My refractometer is great at getting low-volume (a few drops) accurate OG readings.
It also gives me precise but inaccurate readings (again, at the cost of a few drops sample size). Why use an inaccurate measuring tool? I don’t use it to find my FG, but instead to confirm the FG has stopped changing, signaling the end of active fermentation. So, precision is important, but not accuracy.

Once I know the FG is stable, I then pull a larger sample for my hydrometer, thereby getting my accurate FG.
If you are fermenting small batches (I often do 1-1.25 gal test batches), a series of hydrometer readings could cost a noticeable portion of your final volume.

If you normally brew larger batches, the few times you pull a hydrometer sample probably won’t make a big change to your final volume. And if I had to choose one tools over the other, the hydrometer wins hands down.

How many readings are you taking during fermentation? At most three would be plenty.

I take one before adding the yeast then a second one after a week when fermentation has about stopped.

 

[redrocker652002]

One thing about "generic" hop spiders is that they hang from the kettle rim.
Hop baskets (spiders) only work when they're (mostly) submerged, so make sure most or at least enough of it is down in the wort during the boil. It also depends on your wort level.

Austin Home Brew had a spider that was said to be made for the grainfather. If not, I ca always go bac to my bag. LOL

But thank you for the info. I will make sure and check it out.

 

[RyPA]

I always add hops commando, this includes boil, whirlpool, and dry hop. Like @Bramling Cross, for the boil and WP I drop the hops in and give it a stir and give them time to break apart before turning the pump on. There have been 1 or 2 occassions where there was a larger piece of hop matter that ended up getting got caught up in the pump and slowed down flow, but it eventually moves through and brew day moved on. I considered breaking up the pellets in advance to speed up the process. I did this for the dry hop for my most recent batch - I dry hop in the kegerator and thought the broken up/suspended hop matter may be better than pellets that eventually sink to the bottom.

For you hop spider / hop-in-a-bag guys, have you ever tried commando? Do you notice a difference between commando versus spider/bagged?

 

[Graham H]

How many readings are you taking during fermentation? At most three would be plenty.

I take one before adding the yeast then a second one after a week when fermentation has about stopped.

I do as many as needed to make sure fermentation is complete, especially if bottling instead of kegging. Normally this starts with a refractometer reading for OG. I plan on getting a baseline FG via refractometer about three weeks later. My third refractometer reading at the one month point will tell me if there has been any SG change during the 4th week (if so, wait another week and test again). Normally it’s finished by one month, and I’ve used all of about 9 drops to get my readings.
Whenever fermentation is complete, I run a hydrometer sampling, using ~80mL, to get my true FG. Then either keg, bottle, or transfer to secondary for conditioning or flavoring.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I always just throw the hops in. I have tried bagging them or a spider but giving them full rein works best in my opinion. Most of the debris gets taken care of with the whirlpool step.

My beers gets filtered before going through the pump so no worries there.

 

[Graham H]

I always just throw the hops in. I have tried bagging them or a spider but giving them full rein works best in my opinion. Most of the debris gets taken care of with the whirlpool step.

My beers gets filtered before going through the pump so no worries there.

What filter are you using? I’ve been using a spider, but I feel like I’m limiting the hops’ effectiveness. I’ve added a bazooka filter to my drain port but haven’t tried a brew yet where I’ve added the hops in without a spider or hops bag.
If I ever get around to upgrading my system to include a pump, I’ll probably give whirlpooling a go.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

What filter are you using? I’ve been using a spider, but I feel like I’m limiting the hops’ effectiveness. I’ve added a bazooka filter to my drain port but haven’t tried a brew yet where I’ve added the hops in without a spider or hops bag.
If I ever get around to upgrading my system to include a pump, I’ll probably give whirlpooling a go.

Those bazooka filters aren't very good, they'll plug up to quick. I built a filtering grant. It's a quarter barrel keg fitted with a a mesh basket. It's external to my brew kettle although the filter basket does fit inside the kettle.

I use it from the mashtun to the boil kettle and again from the kettle to the plate chiller. I think it's way different than what you're thinking.

 

[redrocker652002]

I have not done any sort of whirlpool as I don't have the setup to do so. I have been using a hop bag clipped to a makeshift deal to suspend them over the wort. It has been working ok. At some point in the future I might give it a go, but I want to see how this hop spider make specifically for the grainfather works out.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I have not done any sort of whirlpool as I don't have the setup to do so. I have been using a hop bag clipped to a makeshift deal to suspend them over the wort. It has been working ok. At some point in the future I might give it a go, but I want to see how this hop spider make specifically for the grainfather works out.

Don't get too worked up by it, not a complicated procedure. You know my system, nothing at all like a grain father but there's loads of folks here with one. You're going to be fine.

 

[redrocker652002]

Don't get too worked up by it, not a complicated procedure. You know my system, nothing at all like a grain father but there's loads of folks here with one. You're going to be fine.

Thanks. I am really looking forward to trying it out, might make my brew day a bit easier at least in the cleanup phase.

 

[RyPA]

Thanks. I am really looking forward to trying it out, might make my brew day a bit easier at least in the cleanup phase.

Is this Grainfather aquisition your first transition over to electric brewing?

If yes, I switched over summer of 2023 and have not looked back. Brew day is so much easier and faster, especially if you can run the system at 240V (I have an Anvil Foundry). Though it does take some adjustment/learning, it's not as automated as I intially thought. For example, when I mash I have to set my temperature 2 degrees higher than I want to mash at and set power level to 60%. It is then constant checking to make sure the temp is what you want.

 

[redrocker652002]

Is this Grainfather aquisition your first transition over to electric brewing?

If yes, I switched over summer of 2023 and have not looked back. Brew day is so much easier and faster, especially if you can run the system at 240V (I have an Anvil Foundry). Though it does take some adjustment/learning, it's not as automated as I intially thought. For example, when I mash I have to set my temperature 2 degrees higher than I want to mash at and set power level to 60%. It is then constant checking to make sure the temp is what you want.

Yes this is my first move into electric brewing. The Grainfather I was able to get is a 110 version, so I am expecting a bit of time to get up to boiling. As long as I can get it to a boil, doesn't have to be a super hard boil, I think I will be ok. The big thing for me is to be able to control the temps for the mash. With the propane burner it was a challenge to do so, and there are some recipes that call for step mashes, mash out temps and things I am not comfortable with on my propane burner. Will I dump the burner and kettle? Heck no. I like doing it that way, but the cleanup and overall control was a bit lacking. So, this came with a good price and the seller was very kind work out an amicable price, so I decided to give it a go. My first brew is going to be a simple SMASH I think, and then go from there.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

Thanks. I am really looking forward to trying it out, might make my brew day a bit easier at least in the cleanup phase.

Cleanup for me is a chore but I'm used to it. Old school, but I like my system. I have been following along here with the other electric systems, better control and all that. Maybe someday.

You're evolving and that's another aspect that makes this hobby fun!

 

[BeerNsteadofH2O]

I always add hops commando, this includes boil, whirlpool, and dry hop. Like @Bramling Cross, for the boil and WP I drop the hops in and give it a stir and give them time to break apart before turning the pump on. There have been 1 or 2 occassions where there was a larger piece of hop matter that ended up getting got caught up in the pump and slowed down flow, but it eventually moves through and brew day moved on. I considered breaking up the pellets in advance to speed up the process. I did this for the dry hop for my most recent batch - I dry hop in the kegerator and thought the broken up/suspended hop matter may be better than pellets that eventually sink to the bottom.

For you hop spider / hop-in-a-bag guys, have you ever tried commando? Do you notice a difference between commando versus spider/bagged?

Commando clogs up the false bottom/screen on my brewzilla gen 3 full boil hops go in a basket suspended on SS wires into the active boil,late addition hops and hops at flame out can go commando without issues, most of the time.

I use refractometer before yeast addition, then a sample after active fermentation has stopped, then again 3 days latter, depending on results I'll bott

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Yes this is my first move into electric brewing. The Grainfather I was able to get is a 110 version, so I am expecting a bit of time to get up to boiling. As long as I can get it to a boil, doesn't have to be a super hard boil, I think I will be ok. The big thing for me is to be able to control the temps for the mash. With the propane burner it was a challenge to do so, and there are some recipes that call for step mashes, mash out temps and things I am not comfortable with on my propane burner. Will I dump the burner and kettle? Heck no. I like doing it that way, but the cleanup and overall control was a bit lacking. So, this came with a good price and the seller was very kind work out an amicable price, so I decided to give it a go. My first brew is going to be a simple SMASH I think, and then go from there.

I caught a Digiboil on sale a couple years back. It was the first version that was designed just to heat water. It was the 110v model and I believe I paid $139 for it. It was great to heat up strike water while I was grinding grain and getting everything else together.
Later, I found that they offered a mash kit for it. I thought, “why not?”. I like doing 10 gallon batches of my favorites, but on new recipes or seasonal beers, I may only do a 5 gallon batch. I can use the digiboil for the mash as well. I have used a mesh bag inside the malt tube, and actually recirculated by hand without a pump, (didn’t particularly have anything else to do at the time ).

I have never even tried to achieve a boil with it. If you have a boil kettle and burner, you could consider using the Grainfather up through mashout and draining over to your kettle for a quicker finish. This would eliminate all the issues with hops clogging your pump and make the grainfather cleanup a bit easier.

Just a thought.