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90 minute bittering hops and boils in the UK. Why?

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Nugent

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I ordered a copy of Graham Wheeler's Brew Your Own British Real Ales At Home from the UK, and have a question for all of the wise sages that inhabit this forum.

Ninety minute hop additions and ninety minutes boils seem to be the standard in UK homebrewing. I have seen a graph on this website (Hop Characteristics Derived from Boiling Times), which shows that bitterness does slightly increase beyond the standard North American 60 minute bittering addition and boil.

Does the additional 30 minutes make a difference? I have some possible theories, but is the extra time really necessary/worth it to get the best results for British style ales?

What are your thoughts and theories on the 90 minute thing?
 

D-Ring

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I ordered a copy of Graham Wheeler's Brew Your Own British Real Ales At Home from the UK, and have a question for all of the wise sages that inhabit this forum.

Ninety minute hop additions and ninety minutes boils seem to be the standard in UK homebrewing. I have seen a graph on this website (Hop Characteristics Derived from Boiling Times), which shows that bitterness does slightly increase beyond the standard North American 60 minute bittering addition and boil.

Does the additional 30 minutes make a difference? I have some possible theories, but is the extra time really necessary/worth it to get the best results for British style ales?

What are your thoughts and theories on the 90 minute thing?
I just listened to a "brew strong" and it talked about 90 min AG boils to get rid of DMS ( I think).
 

BigEd

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Why, I really don't know but if you want to make good UK bitter or ESB it is the way to go. After making a number of these brews over the years that I just wasn't happy with I finally followed the traditional method of one 90 minute hop addition and one late addition. Eureka, the profile of the beer fell into place and it tasted like a Brit bitter was supposed to. :mug:
 
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Nugent

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Why, I really don't know but if you want to make good UK bitter or ESB it is the way to go. After making a number of these brews over the years that I just wasn't happy with I finally followed the traditional method of one 90 minute hop addition and one late addition. Eureka, the profile of the beer fell into place and it tasted like a Brit bitter was supposed to. :mug:
Makes sense.

Thanks.
 

menschmaschine

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DMS and Pilsener malt aside, you can get more caramelization in 90 min boil which can change the flavor of the beer. However, I don't agree with the 90 min. hop additions on a 90 min boil. It's better to wait until after hot break to add the hops (except when FWH-ing), so on a 90 min. boil, you could add them at 60 or 75 min. and get nearly just as many IBUs as 90 min.
 

big supper

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DMS and Pilsener malt aside, you can get more caramelization in 90 min boil which can change the flavor of the beer. However, I don't agree with the 90 min. hop additions on a 90 min boil. It's better to wait until after hot break to add the hops (except when FWH-ing), so on a 90 min. boil, you could add them at 60 or 75 min. and get nearly just as many IBUs as 90 min.
+1

I do a lot of 90 min boils and always add my first hop addition at 75-80 mins. If I do a shorter boil, it is usually 70 minutes with a 60 min addition. I hate when all the hops are stuck to the side of the kettle. The 90 minute boil does help with some extra carmelization.
 

IanP

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I have seen a graph on this website (Hop Characteristics Derived from Boiling Times), which shows that bitterness does slightly increase beyond the standard North American 60 minute bittering addition and boil.
Just an observation - that graph doesn't have any qualifications, sources or supporting evidence and kinda looks like someone at the brewstore has knocked it up in Powerpoint or something (probably with the best intentions). It might be vaguely approximate to the truth but I suspect there are a ton of variations according to hop variety, water quality, pH etc., some of which might significantly alter the shape of those graph lines.
 
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Nugent

Nugent

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Just an observation - that graph doesn't have any qualifications, sources or supporting evidence and kinda looks like someone at the brewstore has knocked it up in Powerpoint or something (probably with the best intentions). It might be vaguely approximate to the truth but I suspect there are a ton of variations according to hop variety, water quality, pH etc., some of which might significantly alter the shape of those graph lines.
A completely fair assessment.
 

Smurfe

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That is for beers with pilsner malt - it has a lot more of the DMS precursor in it.

GT
Way I understood them on the show it was a good idea with any light malted 2 row. Might be mistaken though. I normally do a 90 minute boil anyway though so I never though about it. I will add that I rarely add hops at 90 minutes though. I will add at 60.
 

Bob

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90 minute boils can't really hurt anything, even with the palest of beers. Most of my recipes are brewed with a 90-minute boil.

Oh, and that chart should be dragged out in the street and shot. It's as useless as a condom dispenser in Pope Benedict's private lavatory. Can we get a mod to do a Sticky called "Never, Ever Use This Chart On Pain Of Being Called A Silly Ass", with this chart in the first post?

Cheers,

Bob
 
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Nugent

Nugent

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Oh, and that chart should be dragged out in the street and shot. It's as useless as a condom dispenser in Pope Benedict's private lavatory. Can we get a mod to do a Sticky called "Never, Ever Use This Chart On Pain Of Being Called A Silly Ass", with this chart in the first post?
Don't sugar coat it. We can take it! :)
 
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Nugent

Nugent

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So, going back to my first post, your responses and some further research (fiddling around with BeerSmith; reading deeper into Palmer and Daniels; and actually reading Wheeler cover to cover), I have come to the following thoughts:

1. 60+ minute boils seem to be a lot more common than I thought. It's certainly not just a British thing.

2. 60+ minute boils are prefered for greater caramelization by some.

3. 90 minute hop additions are not common in N.A., do have their draw backs and seem to be part of reducing the amount of hops needed to get the desired IBUs, rather than adding a key aspect to producing British ales.

I'm going to try the 90 minute boil next time, but still add my bittering hops at 60.

Thanks for the input.
 

Bob

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Don't sugar coat it. We can take it! :)
Sorry. I guess I should have prefaced that comment with something like, "Oh, no. Not AGAIN."

:D

That stupid chart rears its ugly head over and over again, and one gets tired explaining how utterly useless it is.

Cheers!

Bob
 

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I am going to be making a ESB soon and I think I will also be going for the 90 min boil and 60 min for the hops. Cool thread lots of great info. Thanks:mug:
 

el_caro

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The characteristics derived from Bittering hops will reach about 95% of their peak at 60mins and around 100% at 100mins.
 
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