6-20R receptacle in brew panel?

[Shwagger]

I haven't found anything on this and was wondering if there is a reason? Not popular? Not feasible? My search skills are weak?

I am building an AiONE simple brew panel to control a HERMS system (5g batches, 5500w element, 2 pumps) and I am using the Avantco 3500w induction cooktop to boil. My idea was to pigtail a 6-20r outlet off the panel and control power to it with a 3 way switch, on-off-on. One direction would power the HERMS element and the other direction send power to the cooktop. The 2 pumps would always be powered so I can use the wort pump to whirlpool. Is this doable? Any options you'd all suggest that might be a better option?

T YIA

 

[Deadalus]

I was going to mention how my EHERMS panel has a 3 way switch as you were wanting to do so I looked up the panel you are building as I wasn't familiar with it. Turns out my panel is the larger one that Mike Skril has plans for. There's a link for it in the AiONE page at skrilnetz. Most 30 amp 3 vessel panels have the selector switch like that since you can't run two of the higher wattage elements at the same time. My panel basically has a second set of components for the BK as exist for the HLT. Probably designed that way since a PID at the time didn't boil well. He suggested the DSPR01 for boil control, PIDs were used for the HLT and MT. I'm upgrading the HLT and BK controllers right now to DSPR320s. On the AiONE webpage I see it's mentioned you could use this in a full scale HERMS. I didn't see where it says how, seems like you would have to unplug the element. Which is why I think you want a switch. In the bigger panel design, the switch is 120V. It's not at the end of the circuit like you envision. If you could do it that way you'd be saving on the unnecessary duplications of components. If you think you'd like to build the bigger panel, I could offer a few suggestions as the plans may be older and not updated.

I wouldn't recommend at all to follow the instructions to add an element to your vessel. Put a TC port in for the element.

 

[Shwagger]

I was going to mention how my EHERMS panel has a 3 way switch as you were wanting to do so I looked up the panel you are building as I wasn't familiar with it. Turns out my panel is the larger one that Mike Skril has plans for. There's a link for it in the AiONE page at skrilnetz. Most 30 amp 3 vessel panels have the selector switch like that since you can't run two of the higher wattage elements at the same time. My panel basically has a second set of components for the BK as exist for the HLT. Probably designed that way since a PID at the time didn't boil well. He suggested the DSPR01 for boil control, PIDs were used for the HLT and MT. I'm upgrading the HLT and BK controllers right now to DSPR320s. On the AiONE webpage I see it's mentioned you could use this in a full scale HERMS. I didn't see where it says how, seems like you would have to unplug the element. Which is why I think you want a switch. In the bigger panel design, the switch is 120V. It's not at the end of the circuit like you envision. If you could do it that way you'd be saving on the unnecessary duplications of components. If you think you'd like to build the bigger panel, I could offer a few suggestions as the plans may be older and not updated.

I wouldn't recommend at all to follow the instructions to add an element to your vessel. Put a TC port in for the element.

I will contact you with a message later if you don't mind? I was looking into using different PID for mine like you mentioned.

And Bobby's TC port has to be the best thing out there. Love it

 

[doug293cz]

Not sure what code says about putting a 20A rated outlet on a 30A capable circuit, but the max draw will be limited to 20A, as long as you don't put a 6-20P on a cord for a more than 20A load. It's the load that determines how much current will be drawn, not the receptacle. The 3500W induction heater will draw less than 15A at 240V, so should be ok.

How will you be dealing with the need to be able to control based on the temperature in two different vessels? Will you have two PIDs/EZBoils, or do you plan to switch the temperature probes with a selector switch? If switching between probes, you need to be aware that some probes are very sensitive to resistance differences among the lead wires (RTDs) and some (thermocouples) are sensitive to the metals used in the wires. So, probe switching and getting accurate temperature readings is not as trivial as it might seem.

If you want to use a simple switch for load selection you need a double pole, double throw, with center off, that is rated at least 30A. You need to switch both hots for safety reasons. These don't seem to be an everyday item. Do you have a switch model in mind? The more robust way to do this is with a low amp, single pole, on-off-on switch controlling two contactors to do the power switching.

Brew on

 

[Shwagger]

Not sure what code says about putting a 20A rated outlet on a 30A capable circuit, but the max draw will be limited to 20A, as long as you don't put a 6-20P on a cord for a more than 20A load. It's the load that determines how much current will be drawn, not the receptacle. The 3500W induction heater will draw less than 15A at 240V, so should be ok.

How will you be dealing with the need to be able to control based on the temperature in two different vessels? Will you have two PIDs/EZBoils, or do you plan to switch the temperature probes with a selector switch? If switching between probes, you need to be aware that some probes are very sensitive to resistance differences among the lead wires (RTDs) and some (thermocouples) are sensitive to the metals used in the wires. So, probe switching and getting accurate temperature readings is not as trivial as it might seem.

If you want to use a simple switch for load selection you need a double pole, double throw, with center off, that is rated at least 30A. You need to switch both hots for safety reasons. These don't seem to be an everyday item. Do you have a switch model in mind? The more robust way to do this is with a low amp, single pole, on-off-on switch controlling two contactors to do the power switching.

Brew on

I won't be probing the boil kettle or controlling the cooktop with a PID. Just need to send power to the cooktop. And I wanted to make it clean looking by using the brew panel. The cooktop just needs power and it can do the rest with its own controls. Only the herms/HLT kettle element (5500w) will be controlled with a PID. I could just plug it into the wall on its own but I prefer a nest system, if I can.

I haven't sourced a switch yet so I am open to anything. Clean looking would be my preference. My panel will have a master switch as well, if that matters.

 

[Deadalus]

I will contact you with a message later if you don't mind? I was looking into using different PID for mine like you mentioned.

And Bobby's TC port has to be the best thing out there. Love it

Not a problem or ask here as I am switching from a simple one to an EZ Boil DSPR320 and not familiar with much else.

Code can vary a lot. I do know it's generally fine on a 120V branch circuit to use 15 amp duplex outlets on a 20 amp line because you are limited by the plug and outlet design. Moving up the ladder to more industrial size equipment, I wouldn't know.

Interesting point about the probe sensitivity. I think I have observed that between my HLT and mash tun. Identical probes and identical PIDs, same exit port setups yet when I calibrate them they often seem to be different corrections. I'll correct one and then go ahead and correct the second one to the same value but then they don't read the same. It would nag at me whether I ended up correcting them proper as I would end up with them having different settings. I was thinking one of my probes was bad so that clears that up.

With the bigger panel, the HLT and BK have their own contactors and SSR's. The BK doesn't have a temp probe. I just added that in but still doing some wiring. (I keep running out of wire and connectors.) The sensor and the cable are about $45-$50 from Auber. It would seem to me that if one could switch to the other outlet at the end that might be the better way costwise. However, sounds like Doug is saying that it's more robust to have the two outlets set up with their own branches as they are in the bigger panel.

 

[rburrelli]

I don’t think three way switch is a feasible option. I think you need a double pole double throw 277v rated switch.

 

[Shwagger]

Not a problem or ask here as I am switching from a simple one to an EZ Boil DSPR320 and not familiar with much else.

Code can vary a lot. I do know it's generally fine on a 120V branch circuit to use 15 amp duplex outlets on a 20 amp line because you are limited by the plug and outlet design. Moving up the ladder to more industrial size equipment, I wouldn't know.

Interesting point about the probe sensitivity. I think I have observed that between my HLT and mash tun. Identical probes and identical PIDs, same exit port setups yet when I calibrate them they often seem to be different corrections. I'll correct one and then go ahead and correct the second one to the same value but then they don't read the same. It would nag at me whether I ended up correcting them proper as I would end up with them having different settings. I was thinking one of my probes was bad so that clears that up.

With the bigger panel, the HLT and BK have their own contactors and SSR's. The BK doesn't have a temp probe. I just added that in but still doing some wiring. (I keep running out of wire and connectors.) The sensor and the cable are about $45-$50 from Auber. It would seem to me that if one could switch to the other outlet at the end that might be the better way costwise. However, sounds like Doug is saying that it's more robust to have the two outlets set up with their own branches as they are in the bigger panel.

I guess in my scenario, it would be the bigger box that you have, except maybe I could swap outlets for the BK side. Does the PID (any kind) have a "hand" option? Essentially it's just on and doesn't fire the element it's hooked to on and off as needed? Or wire it to the contactor without the PID? Admittedly I haven't looked at the plans for that bigger box yet

In the end it might just be easier to get an adapter for the 6-20 and plug it into the outlet on the wall

 

[doug293cz]

Does the PID (any kind) have a "hand" option? Essentially it's just on and doesn't fire the element it's hooked to on and off as needed?

Any PID with a "Manual" mode can just be set to 100% output to disable output modulation. EZBoils can just be set to 100% power while in "Boil" mode.

Or wire it to the contactor without the PID?

If you don't want a controller to modulate the output power, then just connect the load (thru a receptacle/plug if desired) to a switch or contactor. Putting a PID/SSR in the path is a waste.

Brew on

 

[Shwagger]

Good, thanks. I appreciate the info

 

[Shwagger]

I was going to mention how my EHERMS panel has a 3 way switch as you were wanting to do so I looked up the panel you are building as I wasn't familiar with it. Turns out my panel is the larger one that Mike Skril has plans for. There's a link for it in the AiONE page at skrilnetz. Most 30 amp 3 vessel panels have the selector switch like that since you can't run two of the higher wattage elements at the same time. My panel basically has a second set of components for the BK as exist for the HLT. Probably designed that way since a PID at the time didn't boil well. He suggested the DSPR01 for boil control, PIDs were used for the HLT and MT. I'm upgrading the HLT and BK controllers right now to DSPR320s. On the AiONE webpage I see it's mentioned you could use this in a full scale HERMS. I didn't see where it says how, seems like you would have to unplug the element. Which is why I think you want a switch. In the bigger panel design, the switch is 120V. It's not at the end of the circuit like you envision. If you could do it that way you'd be saving on the unnecessary duplications of components. If you think you'd like to build the bigger panel, I could offer a few suggestions as the plans may be older and not updated.

I wouldn't recommend at all to follow the instructions to add an element to your vessel. Put a TC port in for the element.

I ended up looking at the bigger panel you mentioned and it actually might be the route I go. Has what I need with an extra PID for the boil, which I suppose I can just leave out or keep for future changes, say if my induction craps out or I end up wanting to change to an in-kettle heating element. I can just crank it to 100% like @doug293cz says when using induction.

 

[Deadalus]

The original controller for the BK in my panel was a DSPR01. It simply set the power level at a percentage using a small dial. However, your interest in whirlpooling, hops I am assuming, would make the EZ Boil a very useful addition. With the EZ Boil, you can set the whirlpool temperature, vs estimating the power percentage as I currently do. I will be adding in two relays off the alarm functions to run two pumps during the whirlpooling, one to whirlpool and one for cooling. The coolant pump will be mainly to just drop the initial temperature down. The EZ Boil ought to maintain the temp steady after that without any real need to cool to dampen temp oscillations.

As I am working through this build, space is tightening up in the electrical box. I added a probe, 120 outlet, 4 relays, a neutral bar, and a ground bar. It all fits but a slightly bigger box might be helpful. The Auber suggested relays are small and I have fit them on the bottom side of the main box (panel in upright position). A longer neutral bar would be better but I just added another terminal strip. The DSPR320As are about an inch deeper than my Inkbird 106vh's. Still fit so far but need to keep the middle clear. I am keeping the alarm but switching it to the remaining Inkbird on the MT instead if on the HLT as I need the two alarm relays to run both pumps during mashing. I have to check this but there may be an internal alarm on the EZ Boil too? Reworking the pumps off the EZBoil led me to adding an on-off-on selector for my wort pump. So the alarm switch, alarm light, and pump switches may need modification and maybe aren't all needed in the Skril design. Your pump may have an off on switch but keep in mind having one on the panel is helpful for quick action. I also replaced the unlighted selector switch for mash or boil with a lighted one. So the separate power indicator lights may not be as needed. In fact, I think the way the BK one was wired caused it to flicker as it is LED and the DSPR01 was reducing the power.

The MT PID isn't particularly needed in the bigger Skril panel. It's only giving a digital readout of mash temp. I think Mike is recognizing that with the AiONE design. The BK with an EZ Boil would need the temp probe however. The bigger panel I think is a better choice for programability of the BK should that be of interest.

 

[Shwagger]

The original controller for the BK in my panel was a DSPR01. It simply set the power level at a percentage using a small dial. However, your interest in whirlpooling, hops I am assuming, would make the EZ Boil a very useful addition. With the EZ Boil, you can set the whirlpool temperature, vs estimating the power percentage as I currently do. I will be adding in two relays off the alarm functions to run two pumps during the whirlpooling, one to whirlpool and one for cooling. The coolant pump will be mainly to just drop the initial temperature down. The EZ Boil ought to maintain the temp steady after that without any real need to cool to dampen temp oscillations.

As I am working through this build, space is tightening up in the electrical box. I added a probe, 120 outlet, 4 relays, a neutral bar, and a ground bar. It all fits but a slightly bigger box might be helpful. The Auber suggested relays are small and I have fit them on the bottom side of the main box (panel in upright position). A longer neutral bar would be better but I just added another terminal strip. The DSPR320As are about an inch deeper than my Inkbird 106vh's. Still fit so far but need to keep the middle clear. I am keeping the alarm but switching it to the remaining Inkbird on the MT instead if on the HLT as I need the two alarm relays to run both pumps during mashing. I have to check this but there may be an internal alarm on the EZ Boil too? Reworking the pumps off the EZBoil led me to adding an on-off-on selector for my wort pump. So the alarm switch, alarm light, and pump switches may need modification and maybe aren't all needed in the Skril design. Your pump may have an off on switch but keep in mind having one on the panel is helpful for quick action. I also replaced the unlighted selector switch for mash or boil with a lighted one. So the separate power indicator lights may not be as needed. In fact, I think the way the BK one was wired caused it to flicker as it is LED and the DSPR01 was reducing the power.

The MT PID isn't particularly needed in the bigger Skril panel. It's only giving a digital readout of mash temp. I think Mike is recognizing that with the AiONE design. The BK with an EZ Boil would need the temp probe however. The bigger panel I think is a better choice for programability of the BK should that be of interest.

I am thinking in my design, I would rather have the MT EZBoil PID firing the HLT element when mashing and having some sort of switch over to the HLT PID firing the element when heating the strike water and sparge water. I'd rather have the mash temp dictating firing the element/HERMS water when mashing, if that makes sense. Then when done mashing, switch back to the HLT PID and adjust to sparge temp. I am not sure how that would get wired and maybe its just extra and not needed. Playing with the system and learning what HLT temp corresponds to mash temp is probably easier.

Also, finding a panel mount 6-20r receptacle is tough.

 

[whoaru99]

Dunno if there are any exceptions for control panels but, generally, per Code -

• a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit shall have an amp rating not less than that of the branch circuit
• and these other stipulations as follows -

 

[Shwagger]

Dunno if there are any exceptions for control panels but, generally, per Code -

• a single receptacle on an individual branch circuit shall have an amp rating not less than that of the branch circuit
• and these other stipulations as follows -

View attachment 867346

Yes, the risk of burning up the induction cooktop is there. And is in my thought process as I design my system.

I thought I read it has an internal fuse for protection but I can't recall. I'll have to double check to be sure/safe

 

[Deadalus]

I am thinking in my design, I would rather have the MT EZBoil PID firing the HLT element when mashing and having some sort of switch over to the HLT PID firing the element when heating the strike water and sparge water. I'd rather have the mash temp dictating firing the element/HERMS water when mashing, if that makes sense. Then when done mashing, switch back to the HLT PID and adjust to sparge temp. I am not sure how that would get wired and maybe its just extra and not needed. Playing with the system and learning what HLT temp corresponds to mash temp is probably easier.

Also, finding a panel mount 6-20r receptacle is tough.

Not very recently I took a dive into understanding PIDs better as I had an interest beyond brewing to possibly design a better brain for my electric furnace. I learned some, but I'm not an engineer and it's a broader topic than I expected. I did read some material about the design you are envisioning for using the MT PID but I don't remember the caveats completely. You would be introducing additional variables because your heat source is applied to the HLT and the heat is transferring to the wort through the coil, and the probe is reading the MT temperature. Secondary loop comes to mind. I think it has some sort of effect on the algorithm. There's a fairly constant differential temperature between the HLT and MT. You can program your PID to account for that pretty easily (if you remember what the function is called and how to get to it). That is what I think the better choice is considered here but you could try it either way. It's just I wouldn't personally recommend buying three EZBoils though but that's up to you and what you decide you want for the BK anyway. I see value for me to use the EZBoils for the HLT (mashing) and for the BK (whirlpooling) as well as using both pairs of alarm relays to run pumps. I don't see the MT PID really needing much sophistication but others might. I haven't been paying a lot of attention to panel design the past couple years as mine was running fine but I decided I could really use the programming for both the mash and boil. Plus my initial wiring job was not well done so it all made sense to upgrade the panel. There's a lot of variety out there now it seems, with different reduced size panels/control boxes available off the shelf.

You are running into a code issue it seems from that table. Seems like you might need two branch circuits with separate circuit breakers when using the induction cooktop. You could upgrade your BK to electric for the cost of a TC port, element and cordage. It would give you another 2000w on the BK. Probably not too much different pricewise than the extra circuit.

 

[Shwagger]

The induction is attractive to me because I won't have to clean an element inside the BK. Too me that just sounds awful lol

And I don't have to run the induction through the panel, just wanted to for a cleaner system look. I could easily just plug it into a separate 20 amp outlet. More wires running around that way, though

 

[whoaru99]

Couldn't you separately fuse/breaker the 6-20R @ 20A off the 30A or 50A feed coming into the panel?

 

[Shwagger]

Couldn't you separately fuse/breaker the 6-20R @ 20A off the 30A or 50A feed coming into the panel?

Good question and seems logical to my non electrician brain. Put a breaker inline before the 6-20 outlet in the panel...

I have my electrician coming Thursday to update my dryer outlet to 4 prong, I'll ask him and see what he thinks. He'll go by code no doubt.

 

[doug293cz]

Yes, the risk of burning up the induction cooktop is there. And is in my thought process as I design my system.

I thought I read it has an internal fuse for protection but I can't recall. I'll have to double check to be sure/safe

There is no risk of burning up your induction cooktop by plugging it into a 30A circuit. The amount of current that a load draws is controlled by the load device (in this case your cooktop.) The only time your cooktop would ever try to draw more than 14.6A (3500W @ 240V) is if it failed internally some way, so it would already be broken. You could plug your cooktop into a 30A circuit if you changed to a 30A plug.

If the load tries to draw more current than the breaker on the circuit is rated for, then the breaker will trip. This protects the wiring from overheating due to too much current flowing in the wire. Breakers protect wiring, not load devices.

Finally, I believe that if your control panel plugs into a wall receptacle, it is not considered part of the structure wiring, and the structure wiring code does not apply. @whoaru99 , is this correct? This would allow you to put a 20A receptacle in your panel. To be really safe, you should put a 2-pole, 20A breaker (or 2X 20A fuses) in the wires that feed the 20A receptacle, and use 12AWG wire between the breaker/fuses and the receptacle.

Edit: I see @whoaru99 answered (most of) my questions before I finished typing.

Brew on

 

[Shwagger]

Indeed that sounds logical. I looked it up and there is a fuse inside the cooktop and it sounds like they blow often. So it is protected on its own but as you said, if it pulls more amps it's already cooked (zing!) itself. Someone else swapped the internal fuse for a breaker inside the cooktop. I guess it's common enough to warrant a breaker

 

[Bobby_M]

I run my induction off my brewing panel all the time. I just have a short pigtail adapter with an L6-30P on one end the 6-20R on the other. I set my controller to any temp over 212F and it just keeps the outlet on. Doing it that way makes it so you don't need any kinds of switch to be sure you don't enable both loads at the same time.

Finally, I believe that if your control panel plugs into a wall receptacle, it is not considered part of the structure wiring, and the structure wiring code does not apply.

Completely right. It's a portable appliance and NEC doesn't address it.

I am thinking in my design, I would rather have the MT EZBoil PID firing the HLT element when mashing and having some sort of switch over to the HLT PID firing the element when heating the strike water and sparge water. I'd rather have the mash temp dictating firing the element/HERMS water when mashing, if that makes sense.

It's intuitive to want to do that, but there is no good place to put the probe that will make the entire mash your desired target temp. I mean you could put it in the mash liquor's path back from the HERMS coil, but if you do that you might as well just measure the HLT temp and not have to move the probe.

The induction is attractive to me because I won't have to clean an element inside the BK. Too me that just sounds awful lol

That sounds like someone who never had an immersion element in a brew kettle before. The element isn't any harder to clean the the rest of the brew kettle. 100% clean in place with hot water and PBW, just like every other aspect of the system from the pumps, hoses, and HERMS coil. You know why induction sucks? The heat on/off cycle is pretty long. It surges pretty badly when you set the controller to 1500 or 2000 watts because it's on for like 3 seconds/off for 3.

 

[Deadalus]

There is no risk of burning up your induction cooktop by plugging it into a 30A circuit. The amount of current that a load draws is controlled by the load device (in this case your cooktop.) The only time your cooktop would ever try to draw more than 14.6A (3500W @ 240V) is if it failed internally some way, so it would already be broken. You could plug your cooktop into a 30A circuit if you changed to a 30A plug.

If the load tries to draw more current than the breaker on the circuit is rated for, then the breaker will trip. This protects the wiring from overheating due to too much current flowing in the wire. Breakers protect wiring, not load devices.

Finally, I believe that if your control panel plugs into a wall receptacle, it is not considered part of the structure wiring, and the structure wiring code does not apply. @whoaru99 , is this correct? This would allow you to put a 20A receptacle in your panel. To be really safe, you should put a 2-pole, 20A breaker (or 2X 20A fuses) in the wires that feed the 20A receptacle, and use 12AWG wire between the breaker/fuses and the receptacle.

Edit: I see @whoaru99 answered (most of) my questions before I finished typing.

Brew on

What I read on another forum was that the outlet might fry too if the device was defective but the breaker might not trip if the breaker and wires were rated higher than the outlet. I don't know if that is THE reason for the code on that, just passing on someone's speculation.

The element does clean up really easy since you end cleaning in place as Bobby_M says. I would just say make sure the element doesn't have too tight spacing. My first BK element was too tight with the fold and it was a little hard to get the brush on part of it. That just resulted in one spot that would buildup and I would have to gently separate the fold.

 

[Shwagger]

Ahh but an induction cooktop doesn't require much cleaning if any at all

The tight spaces and gaps between the rods is what has me not wanting to clean trub residue off of one

 

[Deadalus]

Sshhhh...the BIABers will find you if you mention you are cleaning averse.

 

[doug293cz]

What I read on another forum was that the outlet might fry too if the device was defective but the breaker might not trip if the breaker and wires were rated higher than the outlet. I don't know if that is THE reason for the code on that, just passing on someone's speculation.

That would have to be a rather unusual failure mode. Such a failure would require that the load device fail in a way that caused it to draw more than 20A, but less than a little over 30A. A dead short internally in the device would initially draw way more than 30A, and trip the breaker.

Brew on

 

[whoaru99]

Finally, I believe that if your control panel plugs into a wall receptacle, it is not considered part of the structure wiring, and the structure wiring code does not apply. @whoaru99 , is this correct?

Can't answer that with definitive authority because there are sections in Code that to me seem not specifically related to structure wiring, but that I'm not very familiar with.

I suggest though, since NEC is primarily geared toward safety, even if Code wouldn't specifically apply to a brew panel/control panel, using Code for guidance feels pretty safe/sound.

 

[Shwagger]

Fun fact I found out today while installing a new 4 prong 30 amp outlet for my dryer and brewery:

Speed Queen dryers do not play nice with GFCI breakers. Trips it instantly. Something about motor mounting. So I have a new circuit but could not use a GFCI breaker in the panel. Have to get a spa panel. No biggie, just odd situation

 

[doug293cz]

Fun fact I found out today while installing a new 4 prong 30 amp outlet for my dryer and brewery:

Speed Queen dryers do not play nice with GFCI breakers. Trips it instantly. Something about motor mounting. So I have a new circuit but could not use a GFCI breaker in the panel. Have to get a spa panel. No biggie, just odd situation

Many dryers are designed to work with 3 or 4 wire outlets. When running with a 3 wire outlet, the ground and neutral are bonded together inside the dryer, so that the dryer can have 120V available for the control circuits (the return current from the 120V loads in the dryer flows thru the ground/neutral conductor.) If you want to run them on a 4 wire outlet, you need to remove the jumper inside the dryer that ties neutral and ground together. This should allow the dryer to work on a circuit with a GFCI. This forces the 120V return current to run thru the neutral only, and allows the GFCI to work properly.

Brew on

 

[Shwagger]

Many dryers are designed to work with 3 or 4 wire outlets. When running with a 3 wire outlet, the ground and neutral are bonded together inside the dryer, so that the dryer can have 120V available for the control circuits (the return current from the 120V loads in the dryer flows thru the ground/neutral conductor.) If you want to run them on a 4 wire outlet, you need to remove the jumper inside the dryer that ties neutral and ground together. This should allow the dryer to work on a circuit with a GFCI. This forces the 120V return current to run thru the neutral only, and allows the GFCI to work properly.

Brew on

That is what I did but it tripped as soon as it was plugged in. The electrician was frustrated because everything was wired right, until we googled it, and Speed Queens have a design flaw. Something about the motor mounts shorting or something. They make an isolation kit that fixes it but it's not worth the effort.

 

[doug293cz]

That is what I did but it tripped as soon as it was plugged in. The electrician was frustrated because everything was wired right, until we googled it, and Speed Queens have a design flaw. Something about the motor mounts shorting or something. They make an isolation kit that fixes it but it's not worth the effort.

Didn't know that about Speed Queens. Good reason to avoid them.

Brew on

 

[Shwagger]

Lol, they're still the best!