50A GFCI after a 30A breaker?

[passedpawn]

I'm going electric and I have a breaker/GFCI question for you guys.

I have a 30A breaker (NOT GFCI) in my garage breaker box. I am having trouble finding a decent price for a GFCI replacement for this breaker.

I just found a 50A GFCI breaker that I think I can grab for $7. My plan is to put this at my patio brew area, connected to the 30A ckt. I'm hoping that I will get the GFCI function from it, but the 30A breaker (back in the garage) will still trip on a short.

Any licensed electricians out there?

 

[JKoravos]

So you're putting a new subpanel in your patio brew area? I think you'll have an issue in that case. I don't know code, but I assume it would be against code to feed a 60A subpanel with a 30A breaker. The other option is that you could replace the 30A non-GFCI breaker in your box with a 60A non-GFCI and use that to feed your subpanel.

How much more is the 30A GFCI breaker?

 

[Gremlyn]

You need to upgrade the breaker to feed the new panel.

 

[thisjrp4]

If you have a 50A subpanel fed by a 30A breaker the 30A will trip first. Typically the subpanel is rated the same or less than the main feeding breaker. DO NOT replace your 30A breaker with a 50A breaker unless you are 100% positive that all wire on that circuit is #6 with a #10 ground. Also check what is on the 30A circuit because some devices are not listed or recommended to be fed by a larger breaker...for example, central air condensing units typically list the maximum breaker size, and you don't want to void warranty or have problems because you oversized the breaker. Spend the money and get a GFCI 30A breaker.

 

[wihophead]

It is perfectly acceptable to feed a 60A load center with a 30A breaker.

Edit:
Good answer thisjrp4

I would just like to added that the OP idea should work fine. The 50A GFCI breaker would add GFCI protection but not over current protection (which is provided by the 30A breaker) so basically what you have is a disconnecting means with GFCI protection.

 

[passedpawn]

You need to upgrade the breaker to feed the new panel.

That does not sound like a good idea. I believe my wire running through my attic will melt at 50A.

 

[lazybean]

Im a Electrical contractor. As others have said, as long as the 30 amp CB feeds the 50amp GFCI, you are ok.

 

[lazybean]

That does not sound like a good idea. I believe my wire running through my attic will melt at 50A.

correct. Wire is sized to the CB feeding it. So you would most likely have to replace the wire too.

 

[passedpawn]

If you have a 50A subpanel fed by a 30A breaker the 30A will trip first.

Perfect!

Typically the subpanel is rated the same or less than the main feeding breaker. DO NOT replace your 30A breaker with a 50A breaker unless you are 100% positive that all wire on that circuit is #6 with a #10 ground.

Check.

Also check what is on the 30A circuit because some devices are not listed or recommended to be fed by a larger breaker...for example, central air condensing units typically list the maximum breaker size, and you don't want to void warranty or have problems because you oversized the breaker.

The only thing that WAS on this ckt was a Jenn-Aire outdoor grill. I removed that, so there is ZIP on it now. In fact, it has been off for better than a year, so I would have noticed anything else that was disabled by now.

Spend the money and get a GFCI 30A breaker.

Generally, sound advice. However, I can't find any fault with what I am considering doing here. In fact, it seems ideal to have the GFCI in a panel near where I am working.

 

[passedpawn]

Im a Electrical contractor. As others have said, as long as the 30 amp CB feeds the 50amp GFCI, you are ok.

I knew if I was patient someone would give me that answer I was hoping for!

 

[Cpt_Kirks]

Can the new panel be "portable", or does it have to be mounted?

I have access to a 240V outlet in the utility room, right next to the patio.

If I put the 240V GFCI breaker and a 240V outlet in a box, with a rubber coated cord of the proper size, and connect it to the dryer outlet, I can have 240V power where I usually brew.

Does that sound safe and/or legal?

 

[wihophead]

For temporary use that is exceptable you just have to remember that the portable panel itself has no GF protection.

 

[Gremlyn]

That does not sound like a good idea. I believe my wire running through my attic will melt at 50A.

Sorry, I didn't elaborate... I don't mean simply replace the breaker - that wouldn't be an upgrade, that would be a fire hazard - I meant if you want to do it right, then you need to upgrade EVERYTHING that would be affected.

 

[lazybean]

I called my local wholesale distributor, and the breaker you need is available (1-day for me to get it) have you looked up any of the wholesale distributors, most will sell to the public.

and i found 1 online. i have never used this website, i just found it on a google search.

GE GFCI 2 pole 120/240

 

[lazybean]

If I put the 240V GFCI breaker and a 240V outlet in a box, with a rubber coated cord of the proper size, and connect it to the dryer outlet, I can have 240V power where I usually brew.

There are a few things you have to make sure of to be up to code. You have to use "SO" cord, with proper cord grips. most electrical panels (even a tiny 2 breaker unit) have to be mounted vertical, so you have to have a way to temporarily mount it. I have built portable setups like this for several industrial and commercial costumers, and the price can get very high on some of these. You might want to look at getting a premade GFCI adapter from an RV supplier. They are usually cheaper and
a lot simpler, and available in different voltage/amperage.

 

[Philip1993]

Im a Electrical contractor. As others have said, as long as the 30 amp CB feeds the 50amp GFCI, you are ok.

LOL! I was searching for this for a non-beer related project, and I ended up back here at HBT. I guess no matter what, it all comes back to beer...

 

[vespa2t]

You need to upgrade the breaker to feed the new panel.

this is not true.

The feeder to the circuit is being protected by the 30A breaker. As long as the conductors are sized to meet the requirements for the 30A breaker (#10 or larger) then there is no code violation. The 60A breaker will never trip based on overcurrent, but will provide the 10mA GFCI protection.

 

[Boar Beer]

For the record I bought a 50 A GFIC breaker for my set up for $160 from Home Depot last month.

 

[passedpawn]

For the record I bought a 50 A GFIC breaker for my set up for $160 from Home Depot last month.

I'll close the loop, too...

I bought a 30A GFI breaker and replaced the standard breaker in my garage breaker box. I found it on Ebay for $50. Works great and has already made a bunch of beer!

 

[JKoravos]

You can get a spa panel that includes a 2-pole 50A GFCI at HD for $49.95.

 

[Philip1993]

You can get a spa panel that includes a 2-pole 50A GFCI at HD for $49.95.

That's what I have, and it was ~$120 7 years ago...