45 min mash

[Tony B]

I’ve been doing BIAB for almost a year now. I’ve played around with 30-90 minute mash times. I have not found any significant gain in mashing beyond 45 minutes. I am now planning 45 minutes for all my brews except when I am multi- tasking and end up going longer.
Any thoughts on this?

 

[shoengine]

Deleted; misread the post.

 

[RM-MN]

Most people mash for 60 minutes because they have been taught that that is the standard mash period. The actual mash period depends on the quality of the grain milling and for a poor milling, a 90 to 120 minute mash may be proper and sometimes even that does not result in complete conversion. A really fine milling can complete full conversion in well under 45 minutes but I don't recommend going too short as conversion isn't the only thing you are looking for. Flavor extraction can take significantly longer than conversion. With my milling, I can get complete conversion in less than 20 minutes but the beer produced will have little flavor so I do not recommend mashing for less than 30 minutes, even though conversion was complete before that.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I can understand doing a shorter mash thinking you're saving time but you might be giving up more to save those 15+ minutes.

If you're trying to save time I would look at other areas where you run less risk on your final beer.

When I start my mash I brew up morning coffee and ponder my brew day. Sometimes I make a quick breakfast. I make sure my down stream equipment is ready for the brew session.

 

[mac_1103]

I usually mash for 60 minutes or more because I'm usually doing other things. Sometimes if a brew day winds up running long for other reasons, I find myself wishing that I'd mashed shorter. But never because of the way the beer turns out. I know a few members have said they do overnight mashes for convenience.

 

[Kickass]

I am now planning 45 minutes for all my brews except when I am multi- tasking and end up going longer.

This is my standard process. Unless I get started the night before then it’s overnight mash. My EBIAB setup allows for this, but others might be a little more limited.

When I start my mash I brew up morning coffee and ponder my brew day. Sometimes I make a quick breakfast.

With an infant and a toddler, I envy your free time. Cutting out 15 minutes here, and 15 minutes with the boil, in addition to other streamlining processes is the only way I can brew and still contribute to the chaos of the house.

 

[hottpeper13]

I've been doing 45 min mashes and boils when I gypsy brew. Most are a form of Bitter and 1.050 or less. After 3 brews like this I certain I'm getting a more malty profile. Don't know if it's the mash or boil. The most recent is from Learn to Homebrew Day where I made a Scottish ale at 1.050. I'll try to keep in touch with tasting notes.

 

[OakIslandBrewery]

I've been doing 45 min mashes and boils when I gypsy brew. Most are a form of Bitter and 1.050 or less. After 3 brews like this I certain I'm getting a more malty profile. Don't know if it's the mash or boil. The most recent is from Learn to Homebrew Day where I made a Scottish ale at 1.050. I'll try to keep in touch with tasting notes.

Sounds like a great procedure, I love a malty profile!

 

[z-bob]

I've mostly settled on 60 minute mashes and 45 minute boils. But the hour mash is mostly out of habit. While the mash is doing it's thing, I'm off doing something else. During the boil I have to actually semi- pay attention.

 

[corncob]

I have experimented extensively with shorter mash times, and I also BIAB with a very fine (but uneven--corona mill) crush. The only times I have found it necessary to go over 45 minutes is when I'm dealing with low DP and/or low mash temperature. In those cases, the extra 15 minutes is required to get my extract up to normal levels. I use a HLT and dough in and infuse by underletting the mash. It's so easy. It let's me do 2 or 3 rests. It allows me to dough in without overheating the mash at first--so I can get at the fines with beta amylase and produce a very fermentable wort if I want (I often do want). My usual:

English Milds: 30min@158, 5min transition, 10min@162

Bitter,porter,stout: 30min@150, 5min transition, 10min@162

Cream ale, Australian sparkling ale: 45min@148, 5min transition, 10min@162

 

[Yesfan]

40-45 min mashes and 30 min boils for me when small batch brewing on the stove top. The batches have been just simple hoppy pale ales for the most part.

 

[DonT]

I mash to a specific gravity reading according to this chart. If it takes 40, 60 or 90min I let it go until I hit or at least get close to what I'm looking for.

 

[Lampy]

Once tested my mash SG every 15min and found that 45min seems like the point of diminishing returns. Sometimes I mash longer for convenience sake.

 

[day_trippr]

The last two brews I have been experimenting with mashing until the SG stabilizes over a 20 minute period. Monday I extended the mash from my normal 60 minutes to 100 and picked up 1.6 Brix/6 SG points before it flatlined. Today, otoh, I tried pushing past 60 and at 90 hadn't gained anything. Same milling, different grain bills, can't really explain it...

Cheers!

 

[bobtheUKbrewer2]

a 20 minute gentle boil while I add the hops at 20 15 10 5 3 2 1 0 works for me

 

[SonomaBrewer]

If you mash for gravity 45 mins is often enough for hot/high-DP malts. But not the same as mashing for fermentability.

Long and low mashes yield more yeast-digestible short-chain sugars, which can really help to dry out certain beer styles. My own preference is for low RG in most beers.

Examples - WCIPA, German Pilsner, I always do a 2 hour mash to get FG in the <1010 range.

 

[hottpeper13]

I totally am there with lower mash temps and longer times. When doing a 45 min rest I'm at 154*-156*. I know that it's not 100% converted because I'm short 6-8 gravity points with the same grain bill mashed at 60 min at the same temp.

 

[corncob]

I am also a fan of dry beers. My favorite thing about the biab mash is that you can use such a fine crush, which will let the beta amylase do its work much faster. I never have to go more than 60 minutes, even when producing a wort that will reliably ferment 5 percentage points more than a given yeast's advertised range.

 

[tracer bullet]

I've stuck with 60 min mash and 60 min boils largely because it fits my brew day schedule and also because it's another variable that can be easily kept control of. There are enough factors to control that affect the eventual flavor of the beer, I've found no need to add another.

I'm sure 45 / 45 or some other numbers would also work well, so I'd only suggest finding something that works but then sticking with it.

 

[hotbeer]

If you check your SG and test for starch conversion every batch, shorter is fine. I don't care to do that every time, so I'm happy to wait 60 minutes or longer.

Beer should be relaxing not only when you drink it, but when you make it. Not sure why a home brewer wants to rush.

 

[dmtaylor]

I have been mashing 40-45 minutes for about 20 years. With a good crush and other mash parameters, there are no significant advantages to a longer mash.

 

[Yesfan]

.........Beer should be relaxing not only when you drink it, but when you make it. Not sure why a home brewer wants to rush.

I don't think a lot of us are rushing it. I agree, it is (very) relaxing, but my usual brew days stretch to 5-6 hours with 60 min mashes and 60 min boils. Unfortunately, I can't make that kind of time happen today. A shorter brew day far outweighs an empty pipeline for me.

 

[day_trippr]

60 minute mash, ~60 minute fly sparge, 60 minute boil, and around 30 minutes to run the wort out of the kettle through a Hopstopper...if all goes well. Add start-up time, cool-down time, any whirlpooling (typically 20 minutes here) and clean up and it's not too surprising it takes me at least 6 hours to knock out ten gallons to the carboys.

On the up side, I really enjoy the process, and I end up with really tasty beer

Cheers!

 

[corncob]

Assuming I crush and set up the night before, I get 7 gallons in the fermenter and all the dishes washed in 3.5-4 hours. 45-60 minute mash (in a bag) and 60 minute boil. I enjoy the process too, but I have a house full of kids abs a million things on the list. I couldn't brew nearly as much as I want to if I couldn't get wrapped up before lunch.

 

[Halfakneecap]

I highly doubt i would be able to pick a difference in 2 beers that were identical except for a 15 minute difference in mashing time. Not in a million years i think for me.

I do 60 but have cut them down if pressed for time. I do extended ( 90 minute + )mashes for saison for high fermentability, but thats also only at low mash temps, and saison yeast are beasts at fermenting anyway.

 

[tracer bullet]

I highly doubt i would be able to pick a difference in 2 beers that were identical except for a 15 minute difference in mashing time. Not in a million years i think for me.

Even though I try to eliminate it as a variable, I tend to agree, I'd never know. Especially not with the other 100 small differences that vary from batch to batch in a supposedly identical recipe.

 

[Kickass]

Beer should be relaxing not only when you drink it, but when you make it. Not sure why a home brewer wants to rush.

Ha! With a 2 yo and an infant, nothing is relaxing. Beer is important, however. So I’ll shave every second I can.

 

[Dog House Brew]

I’m in the 60-90 mash, 40min fly sparge, 60-90min boil, and about 30-45 to fermenter. It’s all dependent on what I’m brewing. I’m generally doing 12.5-20g batches. Time isn’t my issue once brewing. That’s why I do larger batches. I wish my brew days were shorter. I just can’t ditch the fly sparge on my larger batches. I do some full volume BIAB batches, it just hasn’t grabbed me. If I ever started brewing indoors w electric, I’ll change that to single vessel and shave time.

 

[Bassman2003]

Mashing is wide open. So everybody will doing it their own way. If 45min gives you beer that meets your goals, then do 45min. I have gone away from mash times and now focus on gravity targets. I have a long plastic pipette that I can easily stick down into the grain for a quick refractometer reading. I usually shoot for 90% of the estimated pre-boil gravity in my beta rest (under 150F). I stay there until my goal is met then I move to alpha where I try to reach pre-boil gravity. I then move to mashout and transfer to the BK. I do full volume mashes in an Anvil Foundry with a Wilserbrewer bag. So no sparge.

This is the best approach imho. No guessing on gravity and you have a strategy for your fermentability. I crush around a .040 mill gap with a slow speed so I do not have a ton of flour. My beta times are usually between 45-60min and alpha 30-40min. If one wanted less fermentability spend less time in beta or just do a single infusion but it still makes sense to me to gauge by gravity targets rather than time alone. Hold the single infusion to the estimated pre-boil gravity number and you know you will be spot on with your numbers.

 

[BrewZer]

Once tested my mash SG every 15min and found that 45min seems like the point of diminishing returns. Sometimes I mash longer for convenience sake.

That's what I do -- but with starch conversion. I still mash for an hour, but confirm at 45 mins that most of the starch has converted.

 

[Lampy]

That's what I do -- but with starch conversion. I still mash for an hour, but confirm at 45 mins that most of the starch has converted.

Makes sense, I just figured I would find out how fermentable it would be in 3 weeks.

 

[jcaggiano]

Lately, I have been iodine testing at 45 minutes and only rarely find incomplete conversion.

 

[Bobby_M]

A timer is a rough guideline. If you know your system well, you understand how long full conversion usually takes with your crush and mash temp. If you don't know that yet, it's a good idea to take gravity readings after 30 minutes, and then 10 minutes apart so you can learn the curve. Also, if you want max fermentability, you generally don't want to stop the mash because your timer went off. All that, and different malts and total grain bills behave differently.

 

[Bassman2003]

I have been brewing for 20+ years and have focused a lot on mashing. I have distilled it in my mind to a couple of factors - fermentability and sugar targets.

You choose your fermentability before the brew day by designing your mash profile. Your main two choices are spend time in beta temps or spend time in alpha temps. If you want more attenuation you spend more time in beta. If you want more residual sweetness spend less time in beta (higher than 150F).

On brew day, you set gravity targets to execute your mash profile. For lager beer I stay in beta temps (144-149F) until I reach the target of 90% of pre-boil gravity. So for a 12 plato beer, my pre-boil gravity is 11.1 plato, so my beta gravity target is 9.99 or 10 plato. So I stay in this temp range until I get refractometer readings of 10 plato. I then move on to alpha and stay there until I get a reading of 11.1 This creates a very fermentable wort as 90% of the sugars were created in beta which leads to higher attenuation.

For a porter I have coming up, I might execute a different profile that spends less time in beta or just stay with a single infusion and wait until the entire pre-boil gravity number is reached. In my view, homebrew benefits from more attenuation most of the time.

 

[RM-MN]

You choose your fermentability before the brew day by designing your mash profile. Your main two choices are spend time in beta temps or spend time in alpha temps. If you want more attenuation you spend more time in beta. If you want more residual sweetness spend less time in beta (higher than 150F).

This is true if your grains are crushed fairly coarse but as you get a finer crush you lose this control as the conversion is complete before there is time to denature the beta amylase.

 

[wdavis2003]

It would take 96 brew days to save 24 hours of my time by mashing for 45 minutes instead of 60. That's roughly 10 years of brewing for me. I don't see the point.

Like others have said, there are other ways to save time without potentially negatively impacting the final product.

 

[corncob]

This is true if your grains are crushed fairly coarse but as you get a finer crush you lose this control as the conversion is complete before there is time to denature the beta amylase.

This.

The mash for a biab setup with a fine crush does not work the same way as a traditional setup with a traditional crush. I hate to see people talking past each other. All facts are subject to context.

It's another instance of the old internet forum classic "is 223 enough for deer." This discussion can, and has, raged for weeks at a time, always and only terminating when somebody finally accidentally mentions body weight. Turns out that in the US, the normal adult male white tail deer will weigh as little as 90lb and as much as 250lb, depending exactly on where he lives.

 

[corncob]

I use a corona mill, because I had it for making hominy grits. But based on my data over the last few years, I estimate that if I get a good roller mill that would produce a uniform fine crush, I would get complete conversion in 20 minutes for a hot mash, and 30 for a cool mash. Currently, I have to go twice as long to get to the dry centers of the larger grits in the (very broad) particle size distribution my mil gives me. I know from past experience with a mlt and a uniform coarse crush, that getting all the sugar out took even a bit longer.

 

[corncob]

Temperature, time, diastatic power, particle size, and particle size distribution are all factors.

And starch/gum/protein structure of the grain, of you move too far outside the modern norm.

And that's just for extraction. Lautering variation lies on top of that.

 

[corncob]

And I have a freezer full of evidence that 223 is more than enough for deer....