220v to 120v?

[DesignatedDecoy]

assuming i have a 220v setup,
can i build a very short extension cord with soow wire and plug ends to turn a 220v setup into a 120v setup. I made a quick, ****ty drawing to illustrate what im talking about lol.

 

[AknotOtoads]

The 220V plug you have pictured, if wired "normally" will have one leg of 110V where the red line is drawn and one leg of 110V where the black line is drawn. Where the green line is drawn will be the neutral.
On the 110V outlet, you have one leg of 110V, one neutral and one ground.
To power your system with 110V; find the 110V leg and wire it to either the black or red line and connect the neutral to where the green line is drawn.

Hope this helps...

 

[Bobby_M]

Are you talking about taking a 240v brewing system and adapting a plug so that you can brew on 120v sources? Yes as long as you're OK with getting only 1/4 of the wattage out of the element AND assuming your 120v circuit can handle the resulting amperage (probably will, given the 1/4 wattage).

 

[DesignatedDecoy]

I am the Opposite of an electricity guru but here is where i was coming from...
i thought of it as an electrical circuit. whether 120v is applied or 220v it doesn't matter. Therefore, in my mind, connecting a neutral to one of the 220v hot wires was not a big deal; it just completed the circuit. can someone enlighten me here?

I hope that makes sense to someone else besides me.
already loving this forum. i am looking forward to learning a lot and passing it on. thanks for the input.



can anyone recommend any youtube videos/tutorials relating to electrical work on keggles? For example, I understand things need to be grounded but would like to learn why, and i understand the ground is for safety but what triggers the ground wire to be used, etc. etc.

 

[raouliii]

I am the Opposite of an electricity guru but here is where i was coming from...
i thought of it as an electrical circuit. whether 120v is applied or 220v it doesn't matter. Therefore, in my mind, connecting a neutral to one of the 220v hot wires was not a big deal; it just completed the circuit. can someone enlighten me here?..........

It can be a very big deal. You really haven't explained much about your intentions, therefore it's very difficult to provide any recommendations.

Relative to your diagram. Is it your intention to use 120v AC power from the wall outlet, convert it to a 240v receptacle/plug configuration, to power a "boiler" that is already configured for operation at 240v AC?

If not, please explain.

If that is the case, as Bobby_M indicated, the heat element will operate at 1/4 power. In addition, any other components of the "boiler" will likely not operate correctly if they are designed for 240vac operation.

 

[DaleHair]

What make a neutral a neutral is that it is bonded to the ground and metal enclosures, etc. In your house you have a 120/240v service with the center tap of the transformer bonded. If the service was 240v only, one of the 240v legs would be bonded and considered neutral.

What is important is the current carrying conductors be insulated where a grounding conductor does not need to be. So what you want to do is OK for your purpose. I don't know if you will be satisfied with your element working at 1/4 power.

 

[mux]

I am the Opposite of an electricity guru but here is where i was coming from... i thought of it as an electrical circuit. whether 120v is applied or 220v it doesn't matter. Therefore, in my mind, connecting a neutral to one of the 220v hot wires was not a big deal; it just completed the circuit. can someone enlighten me here? I hope that makes sense to someone else besides me. already loving this forum. i am looking forward to learning a lot and passing it on. thanks for the input. can anyone recommend any youtube videos/tutorials relating to electrical work on keggles? For example, I understand things need to be grounded but would like to learn why, and i understand the ground is for safety but what triggers the ground wire to be used, etc. etc.

Open your panel and have look. No neutral in that circuit. Now, if you are paying attention, then you are probably wondering "If there isn't a neutral wire then how is the circuit completed?" The answer is that when one hot wire is negative, then the other is positive, so the two hot wires complete the circuit together because they are "out of phase". This is why 240 volt circuits connect to double pole breakers that are essentially two single pole breakers tied together. In the main panel, every other breaker is out of phase with the adjoining breakers. So, in essence 240 volt wiring is powered by 2 - 120 volt hot wires that are 180 degrees out of phase.

 

[processhead]

Are you talking about taking a 240v brewing system and adapting a plug so that you can brew on 120v sources? Yes as long as you're OK with getting only 1/4 of the wattage out of the element AND assuming your 120v circuit can handle the resulting amperage (probably will, given the 1/4 wattage).

Based on what you originally wrote and pictured, it sounds like you are doing what Bobby echoed.

Bobby's answer is spot on. If all you are powering is a boiler with a 220 volt element, it will heat at 1/4 power output if you wire it as you have shown.

 

[Bobby_M]

i thought of it as an electrical circuit. whether 120v is applied or 220v it doesn't matter.

Electrical components are designed to operate a certain way given certain voltage inputs so you can't choose alternate voltages without evaluating the implications.

To help you understand those implications, we need more info which is where my question came in:

Are you talking about taking a 240v brewing system and adapting a plug so that you can brew on 120v sources?

If your diagram was more of a hypothetical question, it's probably better to get specific. It's really important not to screw up an electrical project.

 

[DocnSun]

110 and a ground one leg of 220 is 110!

 

[raouliii]

110 and a ground one leg of 220 is 110!

Wait, what?

 

[jeffmeh]

To the OP: People are trying to help you here, but you have not provided enough information to really do so.

In your original post, you show a NEMA 10-30 outlet. If that is wired as intended, you would have H-H-N, and no ground (the old 3 wire dryer outlet). Wiring it to have a H-N-G instead is possible, but probably breaks the electrical code given that no one would expect that wiring if they came upon the plug. Not a good idea.

Let's say you already have the cable properly wired to the boiler at 240v with H-H-G, using a NEMA 5-30 plug. You can use it at 240v by plugging it into a properly wired NEMA 5-30 receptacle. If you want to use it at 120v, as stated you will get 1/4 the wattage. One way to accomplish this would be to make a jumper with a plug to go into a 120v receptacle (say, NEMA 5-15) and a NEMA 5-30 receptacle on the other end to mate with the current plug. In that case, you are still wiring a NEMA 5-30 receptacle different than intended (H-N-G instead of H-H-G), but it's on a special purpose cable, not part of your house wiring.

 

[MindenMan]

I agree with jeffmeh, if I understand correctly. I believe he is talking about basically making an "extension" cord to go between the two plugs as an adapter cord. I do wonder the age of your house in terms of the way it is wired. If it is an old house that only has two prong plugs, that would make me nervous about making the neutral in the house a "hot" wire ready to ground out to the easiest path. If you house was built after the 1960s the electrician may have been doing minimum code work, as the electrical codes back then were very different and the "real" ground wire is attached to the outlet box in the wall. I would want a 4 prong plug used so there is a definite separate neutral and ground, due to the fact your kettles are metal, and a wet spot on the floor may be very dangerous. If I am wrong here, please help me out.

 

[DesignatedDecoy]

yes it is my...

...intention to use 120v AC power from the wall outlet, convert it to a 240v receptacle/plug configuration, to power a "boiler" that is already configured for operation at 240v AC?

I appreciate all of the +1's it makes me feel much better when multiple people are saying the same thing instead of just one or two.

im most likely going to go with a 220v setup. i was trying to make an adapter so the 220v setup would also work when plugged into a reg. wall outlet at 1/4 power to make it more versatile. haven't had much free time ill get back once ive done more research. this nema 5-15 and 5-30 topic sounds promising ill have to look into it. THANKS Again!! this is very helpful

 

[nab911]

I am currently deciding if it is worth building a 120v setup because all of the components will have to match 110v. I would love to build it as 220v so that one day, I can just make the swap but after reading and searching forever, I have ended up with the following question:

If 220v is simply two 110v, can you splice two seperate wires, from 2 separate 20A circuits into one 220v source?

Edit: I am not going to cut corners. Just going to build it out with 110v components and I'll just rebuild one day if I can get a dedicated 220v. If I moved up I would be buying a lot more than just a few electrical components.

 

[Bobby_M]

If 220v is simply two 110v, can you splice two seperate wires, from 2 separate 20A circuits into one 220v source?

By code, I don't know. In practice, yes, as long as those two 120v circuits are fed from each of the two phases in the main panel. The only way to know for sure is to run and extension cord from one outlet to near the other one you're thinking of using and measure the voltage between the outlet and the extension cord to see if you get 0 volts or 240 volts.

Frankly, if it were me, I wouldn't do it. You can still use 120v accessories such as contactors with 120v coils) once you move to a 240v panel as long as you also bring in the neutral (meaning a 4 wire supply into the control panel).

 

[nab911]

By code, I don't know. In practice, yes, as long as those two 120v circuits are fed from each of the two phases in the main panel. The only way to know for sure is to run and extension cord from one outlet to near the other one you're thinking of using and measure the voltage between the outlet and the extension cord to see if you get 0 volts or 240 volts.

Frankly, if it were me, I wouldn't do it. You can still use 120v accessories such as contactors with 120v coils) once you move to a 240v panel as long as you also bring in the neutral (meaning a 4 wire supply into the control panel).

Yeah, it seemed to risky to even play with and after starting my list of parts, the 120 vs 240 components really arnt all that different and the cost of changing would be minimal. I am really going to notice when I use wire with 240v rating for all of the components up front.

 

[mux]

You can! Simply use one leg of each phase and tie the the breaker handles in the panel.