Munich Helles 2011 1st Place HBT- Light lager- Augustiner Lagerbier Hell

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Thanks for posting your recipe, and thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread! It has been a great read for me since this is only my second ever lager!

This is what I am brewing today, inspired by the recipe on the first page.

Predicted Number:

Batch Size----------------13 Gallons
Efficiency-----------------66%
OG------------------------1.049
FG------------------------1.013
ABV-----------------------4.72%
IBU------------------------17.1
SRM-----------------------4.92

Grain Bill:

American 2-row------------18 lbs
Vienna---------------------6 lbs
Munich---------------------2 lbs

Mash-----------------------152 F for 90 Minutes

Hops:

Northern Brewer----------- 1 oz at 60 min
Hallertau------------------- .5 oz at 60 min
Hallertau------------------- .25 oz at 25 min
Hallertau------------------- .25 oz at 5 min

Yeast:

BrewFerm Lager------------- 2 12g packs

Fermentation Schedule:

Dec 22-Jan 5--------------Primary in 20 gallon tub at 54F

Jan 5---------------------Rack beer into 2, 6 gallon carboys

Jan 5-12-----------------D Rest if Needed

Jan 12-Feb 16------------Lager at 40F

I am very excited to try this beer out, it should be a lot of fun, and I hope to keep every one up to date on it! :)

Any thoughts on what I posted folks? :mug:
 
It's my pleasure J. Langfo,

Your recipe is very close. A small amount of Melanoiden malt would be appropriate or you could perform a small semi-decoction mash. Basically remove a gallon of grist and wort or even just the liquid, boil it for 15 minutes and add it back to the mash.

Other than that it looks great! Please keep us updated and post pictures if you are so inclined.

Joe

Thanks for posting your recipe, and thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread! It has been a great read for me since this is only my second ever lager!

This is what I am brewing today, inspired by the recipe on the first page.

Predicted Number:

Batch Size----------------13 Gallons
Efficiency-----------------66%
OG------------------------1.049
FG------------------------1.013
ABV-----------------------4.72%
IBU------------------------17.1
SRM-----------------------4.92

Grain Bill:

American 2-row------------18 lbs
Vienna---------------------6 lbs
Munich---------------------2 lbs

Mash-----------------------152 F for 90 Minutes

Hops:

Northern Brewer----------- 1 oz at 60 min
Hallertau------------------- .5 oz at 60 min
Hallertau------------------- .25 oz at 25 min
Hallertau------------------- .25 oz at 5 min

Yeast:

BrewFerm Lager------------- 2 12g packs

Fermentation Schedule:

Dec 22-Jan 5--------------Primary in 20 gallon tub at 54F

Jan 5---------------------Rack beer into 2, 6 gallon carboys

Jan 5-12-----------------D Rest if Needed

Jan 12-Feb 16------------Lager at 40F

I am very excited to try this beer out, it should be a lot of fun, and I hope to keep every one up to date on it! :)

Any thoughts on what I posted folks? :mug:
 
Sadly, my lhbs did not have any melanodian malt, and I didn't do a decotion mash. But, I did end up with a mash efficiency of 76% up from 66% last week!

So, I ended up with 53 liters of worth with a og of 1.052 that I am letting primary in a 20 gallon vat inside my chest freezer at 54f.
(Apt stove set up)

When, I come back from vacation, I want to rack into 2, 6 gallon carboys so I end up with an honest 12 gallons of beer at bottling time.

Its a bit darker than what I wanted, but it should clear out I hope. I will post a pic of the hydrometer sample asap.

ForumRunner_20131223_155423.jpg


ForumRunner_20131223_155441.jpg
 
K, so I just got back from vacation and came back to see a mostly fallen krausen. I took a hydrometer reading and it is at 1.010.

Naturally, I decided to take a taste, and I don't taste any fruity esters, but there is something there that is blocking out the malt flavor, diacytle mayhaps. So I bumped the temp up to 65, and will let rack to secondary tommorow and let it hold at that temp for a few days until I start dropping the temp down gradually to 33.
 
Could you describe the flavor further? Was it slightly buttery, oily or slick on the tongue? If so, it's probably diacetyl. You may have to rouse those yeast a little to get them to eat that diacetyl.

You were not available this time but D-rest should be performed earlier on in the fermentation. Meh, I'd sanitize a spoon, swirl the yeast, move it to a warmer area (the pros only go to about 59 degrees but we aint pros) and let it sit for a few days.

If you get some airlock activity it could be a good sign. Denny Conn doesn't perform a D-rest unless he tastes diacetyl. You'll be fine.


K, so I just got back from vacation and came back to see a mostly fallen krausen. I took a hydrometer reading and it is at 1.010.

Naturally, I decided to take a taste, and I don't taste any fruity esters, but there is something there that is blocking out the malt flavor, diacytle mayhaps. So I bumped the temp up to 65, and will let rack to secondary tommorow and let it hold at that temp for a few days until I start dropping the temp down gradually to 33.
 
Mmm, buttery taste no, but slick feel I could agree! I'm not exactly sure if I should stir the beer because its actually in a 20 gallon vat and not an airlocked carboy, i was going to transfer it today.

I was thinking, I could rack the beer to carboy, and in the bottom of the carboys I could add like half a cup of sugar that I would rack on top off to give the beer some food while it tried to clean up.

My brother suggested letting it sit for a week at 65, then tasting it to see if its delectable anymore and then possibly adding sugar and waiting longer.

When I looked at the beer yesterday, I could still see bubbles rising from the beer, but I assumed it was degassing since the gravity was at 1.010 and I had mashed at 152

Ideas?
 
I'd follow your brother's advice. Take your time, warm it up and see if the yeast will work on that off-flavor. Racking it probably won't help at this point.


Mmm, buttery taste no, but slick feel I could agree! I'm not exactly sure if I should stir the beer because its actually in a 20 gallon vat and not an airlocked carboy, i was going to transfer it today.

I was thinking, I could rack the beer to carboy, and in the bottom of the carboys I could add like half a cup of sugar that I would rack on top off to give the beer some food while it tried to clean up.

My brother suggested letting it sit for a week at 65, then tasting it to see if its delectable anymore and then possibly adding sugar and waiting longer.

When I looked at the beer yesterday, I could still see bubbles rising from the beer, but I assumed it was degassing since the gravity was at 1.010 and I had mashed at 152

Ideas?
 
Well, we racked the beer into secondary since activity seemed to be very slow if non-existent, we racked it mainly because we didn't want the beer hanging out in the 20 gallon vat if it wasn't chugging along quickly anymore.

However, we will give it about a week to finish a D-rest at 65F to see if it cleans up any, failing that, we will think about pitching some sugar to give the yeast some food to snack on so it will clean up after itself.

It was hard to tell if the beer was just young, or if it was Diactyle that I was tasting, it wasn't buttery by my taste, but as mentioned before, oily might not have been far off the mark, it just seemed like there was something perceivable that was blocking the malt flavor from coming through, and I wasn't sure if it was just because the beer was still green as grass.
 
Alrighty, so yesterday I tried a sample of the beer from one of the carboys after the "D-Rest", it seems to taste cleaner now, the individual flavors come across the tongue a little bit more distinctly is the best way I would describe it. If there is any oiliness to it, it is very light and probably will not show through once it gets some bubbles behind it.

Something that is bothering me is apparently the yeast produced some light banana and melon flavors during fermentation, I hope that they go away after laggering for 8 weeks.
 
I would let it rest longer. The warmer the beer the more active the yeast. Allow the yeast more time to clean up the beer. before putting it back to hibernation.
 
So, as of yesterday, we have hit our lager tempeature of 35F, now it's time to wait about 8 weights for yummy lager goodness!
 
I would like to post an amendment being made to my procedure. The beer is lagering right now at 35F, and it will stay at that temperature until bottling on March 8th, this will full-fill the 1 day, per gravity unit rule of thumb. (1.052 -> 52 days of lager).

On February 22, 2 weeks before bottling, I will perform an experiment that will hopefully benefit all who have always wondered, Super Kleer v.s. Gelatin Finings! I will dose one carboy with gelatin, and another one with superkleer and will document the results, should be pretty neat to see I think :)
 
LORDY LORDY LORDY! IT IS DONE.

First Successful pint of my first water chemistry adjusted, first starter used, First correct lager procedure, and first beer I could read a book through (and I did it BIAB)!

This stuff i gold (see what I did there).

Photo on 2014-02-07 at 19.27.jpg
 
Outstanding effort and thank you for posting a picture.

From my OP.

Change it, brew it, have fun and post your results. Buy some liter mugs, serve it to your friends and family. Show off that fluffy white head and clear golden beer.

You brewed this beer and it's great!!!!




LORDY LORDY LORDY! IT IS DONE.

First Successful pint of my first water chemistry adjusted, first starter used, First correct lager procedure, and first beer I could read a book through (and I did it BIAB)!

This stuff i gold (see what I did there).
 
A German colleague of mine wanted to learn how to make lager. I told him I had only brewed two, a Czech pilsner and a clone of Augustiner Lagerbier Helles. He said that Augustiner was his favorite lager. I told him I really liked mine but I had never tasted the real thing. We brewed 10 gallons today and hit all our numbers perfectly. Fermentation is just getting underway. Hopefully he will tell me how close it is to the real thing when it is done. Either way, I'm really looking forward to having a keg of my half of the batch.
 
So alas, after bottling the first 6 gallons of the beer and letting it condition for 3 weeks and sit in the fridge for one week, the beer that I brewed didn't really meat the snuff. While the clarity was impressive in most cases and the color was spot on, the flavor profile wasn't really there, there is a flavor, that you can more easily identify by smelling the head that is kinda acidic and kinda tart. It could be hops or it could green apple, it kinda strattles that boarder, but for whatever reason the malt just isn't popping in mine even though it finished at 1.010. Which in my mind is really needed for a Helles.

For me to call the beer that I brewed a Munich Helles, it would need to be maltier and slightly sweeter, with a touch more bittering hops than what I used. Next time I brew this beer again, I will use German Pilsner malt, add some melanodin malt, and make sure that I pitch the proper amount of yeast for a lager like this, and just as importantly use a nice yeast from white labs or wyeast. I think the dry lager yeast that I used in this case just really wasn't up to snuff, the malt didn't shine through for whatever reason, and to address it next time, I will just cover every base that I know to cover.

However, for the other 6 gallons that I still have lagering, I will make a hop tea, and add it at bottling time and hopefully turn an OK helles into an excellent pilsner of some kind :D

For a reference, I will add my procedure on here.

Predicted Number:

Batch Size----------------13 Gallons
Efficiency-----------------66%
OG------------------------1.049
FG------------------------1.013
ABV-----------------------4.72%
IBU------------------------17.1
SRM-----------------------4.92

Grain Bill:

American 2-row------------18 lbs
Vienna---------------------6 lbs
Munich---------------------2 lbs

Mash-----------------------152 F for 90 Minutes

Hops:

Northern Brewer----------- 1 oz at 60 min
Hallertau------------------- .5 oz at 60 min
Hallertau------------------- .25 oz at 25 min
Hallertau------------------- .25 oz at 5 min

Oh, just as a reminder, I do not attribute my disappointment in this beer to the original poster nor anyone else other than myself. I resolve to make more beer!

Next up, American Pale Ale, followed by Oktoberfest, followed by Dopplebock! :D
 
how much liter of water would you add into the 8 gallons of water during the mashing stage if you don't sparge the water ?
 
18.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 88.89 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.94 %
1.00 lb Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 4.94 %
0.25 lb Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 1.23 %
2.50 oz Hallertauer [3.80 %] (60 min) Hops 16.0 IBU
2 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs Southern German Lager (White Labs #WLP838) [Starter 35 ml] Yeast-Lager
Gelatin in secondary

Lots to type- Instead of a decoction mash I used .25 pounds of Melanoiden and a pound of Munich. Of course you could leave that out, follow Kaiser's decoction advice and brew traditionally. You could also use some Vienna instead but it's up to you- of course.

I removed the amount of water additions because I certainly didn't want people adding random amounts of salts when they should follow their own reports to replicate Munich water.

I mashed at 154 for 90 minutes using a Sawdustguy RIMS system. 8 gallons of strike water and two 4 gallon sparges of 168 degree water.

I am a firm believer that pitching active yeast is just as, if not more, important than the starter size. Make sure that 838 is rolling and ready to eat so it has no problem taking off at 52 degrees.

Here is the story behind the beer and I'll follow up with some pictures if I can find them. This beer was brewed on 9-15-2010.





Every beer needs a story:

I have a long time friend (hell, we played Highschool football together in 1979-82- Oh GOD I'm old) named Rob. Rob works for a large Hotel chain and is married to a wonderful girl from Dublin, Ireland. Rob has relatives all over the world including a sister-in-law in Brazil and a Brother-in-law in Munich Germany so he travels the world and can eat and drink with the best of them. He’s been to Oktoberfest where he continually emailed us messages/pictures of him drinking in every tent he could find.

One Wednesday evening while druk and solving all the world’s problems I got the idea to replicate Rob’s favorite beer so I sent him this email:

“Hey Rob, you have now spent extensive time drinking in Germany. Southern Germany includes the state of Bavaria and includes Munich. (no I didn't know all that- I had to look it up as I'm a geographic idiot).
I have a couple German yeasts ready to use. One is a Southern German yeast called WLP 838. This is how it's described.
WLP838 Southern German Lager Yeast
This yeast is characterized by a malty finish and balanced aroma. It is a strong fermentor, produces slight sulfur, and low diacetyl.
What was your favorite non-wheat beer in Munich? “

Within one minute he emailed back the following:

Dude, the beer in Munich is AWESOME!!!
My favorite is Augustiner & Pauliner is second, Hofbrau is good as well… and here are the specifics from your list.
Augustiner Lagerbier Hell
Augustiner Pils
Paulaner Premium Pils
Paulaner Original Münchner Hell
Hofbrau Fürsten Trunk

And thus was born my Munich Helles.

Now I know I didn't leave the beer on the yeast for 87 months, I use gelatin, love my secondaries and it goes against the HBT authorities. I also don't care for Pilsner malt but you certainly could use some or all for this recipe.

Change it, brew it, have fun and post your results. Buy some liter mugs, serve it to your friends and family. Show off that fluffy white head and clear golden beer.

You brewed this beer and it's great!!!!


how much liter of water would you add into the 8 gallons of water during the mashing stage if you don't sparge the water ? :rockin:
 
how much liter of water would you add into the 8 gallons of water during the mashing stage if you don't sparge the water ?

I think you are asking how much water would be used for a no-sparge brew day, right?

Assuming you have the ability to mash the entire volume for a 10 gallon batch I'd say 15 gallons total water volume would be fine. The grains may soak up 2 gallons and you'd want to boil off at least another gallon.

I'm not sure because I've never done a no-sparge brew.
 
thank you Joe Dragon, but do you also know what is the best temperature to put the dry yeast in ? because it doesn't mention on the recipe
 
thank you Joe Dragon, but do you also know what is the best temperature to put the dry yeast in ? because it doesn't mention on the recipe

There are conflicting opinions on pitching dry lager yeast. If you pitch cold the yeast may take a long time to start. If you pitch warm the yeast will definitely start but you risk producing unwanted esters.

Just my opinion but I would get your beer to lager temperature and then pitch plenty of yeast. Be patient and don't forget to perform a diacetyl rest as needed.
 
Hi guys, I am really new to homebrewing, but this is a beer which I'd like to attempt. I've had it in Germany and loved it. Would anyone be willing to answer a few questions from a noob? Some of the terms I just don't fully understand. I'm really used to kits with very straightforward instructions, which I have had a bit of success with a while ago.

Is this correct procedure?
I only have a 5 gallon and a 5 gallon carboy, so I would just half all of the ingredients as this is a 10 gallon recipe?

1. Heat 4 gallons of water to 154. Add the pale Malt, Cara-Pils/Dextrine, Munich Malt, and Melanoiden Malt. Mash for 90 minutes.
2. Add 2 litres of 168f sparge water. I just pour it into the mash?
2. At the 60 minute, bring to a boil and add the Hellertauer hops
3. Boil for 60 more minutes
4. Cool to 52f and then add the yeast
5. Ferment for 21 days at 52f
6. 7 days for diacetal res at 65ft
7. 21 days at 39f.

Problems with that?

Also when do I add the gypsum, calcium chloride? 60 minutes into the mash is what I get from the instructions.

whirlfloc 15 minutes into the boil?

The gelatin goes right into the secondary at the beginning?

Thanks guys, sorry for such basic questions.
 
sub'd im going to try to brew this on friday :)

im in for the q's to be answered also. Im going to be brewing a 5 gal. bucket also
 
brewing first lager this weekend, and have been drooling staring at the photos of this beer. my god. looks so sweet and tasty
 
Don't know how I missed this thread along the way. When I lived overseas this was one of my "must have in the house" beers. And one of the reasons I started brewing when I came back to the US back in '98.

Will have to sort through this thread...
 
I just brewed 10 gallons of this. Apparently we are getting more efficient with each batch.
My OG is 1.060. Any suggestions?
Add water? Leave it alone?
 
I just bottled 5 gallons of this. I tasted a bit as I was bottling, and it had a nice malty richness. I'm hoping that the carbonation will add a bit of a bite to the beer as well.

I also must say that the gelatin trick for clarifying a beer is awesome. I could literally see through the carboy after I added the gelatin.
 
Do I let the it go a full 21 days before a diacetyl rest, or do a do a diacetyl rest after 7 days? How many days should the rest be? If the later, do I finish up the 21 days primary schedule after the rest? Do the D-rest days go towards the 21 day total?

confused...
 
Do I let the it go a full 21 days before a diacetyl rest, or do a do a diacetyl rest after 7 days? How many days should the rest be? If the later, do I finish up the 21 days primary schedule after the rest? Do the D-rest days go towards the 21 day total?

confused...

The D-rest should be performed as fermentation slows. For this lager it's probably best at around day 5 to 7. If there is diacetyl you'd like to have somewhat active yeast finish that off.

Leave the beer at a warmer temperature for a week. From there you can bring it back to lagering temperatures for another week or two. Rack to secondary and lager as long as you'd like. 6 weeks seems to work.

I hope that's not too confusing:

Pitch, ferment for a week at 49 to 51 degrees
Warm beer to 59 degrees for one week
Chill to 51 for a week or longer
Rack and lager at 40 or less for as long as you want
 
Crystal clear! Thanks so much. Looking forward to drinking this beer after cutting the yard in spring/summer.
 
Looks like a wonderfully good first lager to try. I'll be making this once I get my fermentation chamber built. I'll be making this for a good friend who will be visiting in June. Glad this one comes around quickly.
 
I wanted to say thank you to Joe for helping me out. I PMed him with a couple questions and he literally got back to me within a couple hours, which blew me away.

Thanks to this thread, tons of research, and a little help from Joe, I decided to take the leap and attempt my first lager. I followed the recipe exactly and did a starter for my first time ever. The beer has been in the fridge at 51 degrees for 6 days now and I just took a gravity reading which came out to 1.030 (original gravity was 1.054).

Do you guys think I should start a D-rest now or wait another day or two?

I attached a picture because everyone like pictures.

First Lager.jpg
 
Last edited:
I wanted to say thank you to Joe for helping me out. I PMed him with a couple questions and he literally got back to me within a couple hours, which blew me away.

Thanks to this thread, tons of research, and a little help from Joe, I decided to take the leap and attempt my first lager. I followed the recipe exactly and did a starter for my first time ever. The beer has been in the fridge at 51 degrees for 6 days now and I just took a gravity reading which came out to 1.030 (original gravity was 1.054).

Do you guys think I should start a D-rest now or wait another day or two?

I attached a picture because everyone like pictures.

You are very welcome. Thank you for the picture and kind words.

I'd wait another day or two for a D-rest. We have to keep it cool during most of the "active" (lagers aint that active) to avoid most fruit esters from being developed.

It looks like a D-rest can be much warmer than what I've been performing.

This from Chris White from 1999 BYO:

The process is simply to raise the fermentation temperature from lager temperatures (50° to 55° F) to 65° to 68° F for a two-day period near the close of the fermentation. Usually the diacetyl rest is begun when the beer is two to five specific gravity points away from the target terminal gravity. The temperature is then lowered to conditioning temperature following diacetyl reduction.
 
Thanks for the advice! I will wait until tomorrow morning to start raising it up to temp.

I can't wait till I am able to post pictures of the final product!
 
I brewed this on Sat. everything went well, I couldnt get WLP so used 2308 w 2 liter starter. 1.052 and fermented at 52 degrees after bringing starter to same temp.

checked it today and its at 1.030, I was thinking it would be farther along? I gently stirred to rouse the yeast and put back in the fridge.

Is this a typical reading for 5 days? should I do a D rest now? or wait?

is there a commercial example that is similar to this I can check the taste against?
 
I brewed this on Sat. everything went well, I couldnt get WLP so used 2308 w 2 liter starter. 1.052 and fermented at 52 degrees after bringing starter to same temp.

checked it today and its at 1.030, I was thinking it would be farther along? I gently stirred to rouse the yeast and put back in the fridge.

Is this a typical reading for 5 days? should I do a D rest now? or wait?

is there a commercial example that is similar to this I can check the taste against?

Lagers are boring. Really boring. Expect a slow fermentation. Be patient.

A diacetyl rest should be preformed at about 5 points from terminal gravity. So somewhere around 1.017.

As far as a commercial example- I have no clue in Atlanta. In the Chicago area we have a large liquor store chain called Binny's. They have 12 German Helles type beers in stock.

Google tells me they might carry Weihenstephaner Original Premium Lager Bier at The Juice Box.
 
Wyowulf,

My fermentation schedule looked exactly like yours. By 7 days I was within 10 points. I didn't taste diacetyl at all (I am not a good taster but I didn't detect anything) but I did the the D-rest anyway for two days. I may have started a little early, but this is my first lager and its part of the learning experience for me. I finished around 1.010.

It's been two and half weeks since I brewed and I will be kegging tomorrow. Then it is going to sit for a month or so.

Let us know how yours turns out!

-Lewis
 
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