2-Vessel Counterflow-HERMS concept

[Beer-Fu]

New to HomebrewTalk here and designing a new brew setup. Sharing this for feedback/tips/words of wisdom.

The design is a 2 vessel gas powered system. Counterflow chiller will be used for chilling the wort and will double as a HERMS when doing step mashes.

Questions:
1) Is it realistic to think I can control temps using this system manually without any PIDs?
2) To convert this to a PID/Automated temp control at a later stage are the Temp probes in an OK place or do I need to place them in-line with the Out valves?
3) Will my burner melt my Cooler?

Brew Process:

Start
1) Fill HLT/BK will full boil volume. Bring up to Strike temp. Transfer mash volume to MT
2) Dough in and rest for 30 minutes.
2a) If doing a step mash, recirculate worth with Pump #1 and heated sparge water with Pump #2 through CFC until Mash reaches 2nd rest temp.
3) Recirculate wort via Pump #1 for last 30 minutes to clarify wort.

Sparge:
4) Recirculate Sparge water with wort and raise to mash out temps by direct firing the burner.
5) Close HLT/BK Wort Out and fill boil kettle.

Boil:
6) Boil for 60 minutes
7) Clean out MT

Chill
8) Chill using CFC with water/ice water in MT. Recirculate wort back into HLT/BK for whirlpool.
9) Once pitching temp is reached, run off Wort to fermenter from CFC.

Thanks in advance for the Feedback!

 

[aangel]

New to HomebrewTalk here and designing a new brew setup. Sharing this for feedback/tips/words of wisdom.

The design is a 2 vessel gas powered system. Counterflow chiller will be used for chilling the wort and will double as a HERMS when doing step mashes.

Questions:
1) Is it realistic to think I can control temps using this system manually without any PIDs?

No.

2) To convert this to a PID/Automated temp control at a later stage are the Temp probes in an OK place or do I need to place them in-line with the Out valves?

I have my PID probe immersed under my grain, on top of my false bottom. Your positioning should be fine. It's your overall average mash temperature that matters.

3) Will my burner melt my Cooler?

Possibly, depends on the burner and distance from the cooler wall. Probably not though.

Brew Process:

Start
1) Fill HLT/BK will full boil volume. Bring up to Strike temp. Transfer mash volume to MT
2) Dough in and rest for 30 minutes.
2a) If doing a step mash, recirculate worth with Pump #1 and heated sparge water with Pump #2 through CFC until Mash reaches 2nd rest temp.
3) Recirculate wort via Pump #1 for last 30 minutes to clarify wort.
e
4) Recirculate Sparge water with wort and raise to mash out temps by direct firing the burner.
5) Close HLT/BK Wort Out and fill boil kettle.

Boil:
6) Boil for 60 minutes
7) Clean out MT

Chill
8) Chill using CFC with water/ice water in MT. Recirculate wort back into HLT/BK for whirlpool.
9) Once pitching temp is reached, run off Wort to fermenter from CFC.

Thanks in advance for the Feedback!

It's an unconventional method, but that's not to say it won't work. I take it you already have a cooler and boil kettle and you want to upgrade your process to involve step mashing?

 

[Beer-Fu]

The design was based in large part by the https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1609702P-Twent-E that I saw on another thread, but I am trying to achieve the same functionality with less equipment.

Goals:
Keep the footprint of the brewery small (hence no 3 vessel system).

Repeatable efficiency

Gear:
I have the Cooler and gas burner now, the rest would need to be sourced.

Thought Process:
My research took my from BIAB, to eBIAB, to MIAB, and finally here. I believe this design manages to overcome some of the BIAB limitations of heat-loss, 240v electric elements, and brewing 1.090+ beers, but complexity is clearly added with the 2 pumps.

 

[rekoob]

It seems like your process is sound. I don't see any reason why it won't work. Although I'm not sure how long it would take for your temp changes through the CFC.

I suppose if you tried it and it didn't work as planned or you find your not able to change temps very well you could always change to a direct fired MLT and problem solved.

I think I would also put the pumps on the lower shelf to shield them from any spills.

Let us know what you end up doing.

 

[DurtyChemist]

I don't see how this concept is any different than the two vessel BrewEasy system from Blichmann. The difference I DO see is a two vessel HERMS vs a two vessel traditional mash/Brutus 20. I'm interested to know how this works out as it seems like you would have a giant BIAB setup with circulation when you're sparging. It might work GREAT!

 

[Beer-Fu]

Appreciate the encouragement. Glad to hear that this sounds reasonable. I am working on the detailed design and parts list now so stay tuned.

Also, placed my order on 2 Chugger pumps and found a friend in town with welding equipment/experience. some progress...

 

[Beer-Fu]

I've spent considerable time with me, myself, and my beer working out the fittings and a parts list. Here is what I have came up with. Sorry for the terrible handwriting but I had to jot this one out manually to keep everything straight.

Parts List is here


I'm trying to stomach the $1k I am about to spend on this thing..... And that doesn't include the stand or a mash filter. Time for a beer. Good thing I have my Zombie Dust clone on tap

Thanks for reading. If anyone has smart ideas to reduce the price significantly I am all ears.

 

[nebulous13]

I'm slowly building up a very similar system right now. I am planning to use a second kettle for the MLT and use my cooler to store the sparge water. So at your Step 4, I would transfer 180F water from HLT/BK to the cooler, then fly sparge directly from the MLT to my empty HLT/BK. That does require me to have the cooler higher than everything else. I was just going to build things close to the ground and then put the cooler on a table when I needed it. I need my sculpture to break down easily for storage.

Looking forward to seeing your progress...

 

[Egas1949]

Im travelling the same road you are, and trying to make a portable plug and play "crate" for making 2.5-3 gal batches. How had your set up worked out?

 

[DurtyChemist]

Updates?

 

[Bobby_M]

Any system of mash temp maintenance that relies on the brewer to manually regulate heat input is going to be a major pain in the ass.