2-stage immersion chiller help

[catalanotte]

I have a homemade 25 ft coil immersion chiller that I have used for years with partial boil extract batches with great results. Basic tap water system, no re circulation pump. Shifted to full boil all-grain and the coil just can't get it done anymore. Only cools to about 100 in 15 minutes then stalls out. Tap water just isn't cold enough.

Has anyone tried a 2 stage cooler with one coil chilling tap water through an ice bath and the second cooling the wort?

I am thinking about adding a 60 ft coil to serve and the main coil in the kettle and using the old 25 ft coil as a pre-chiller in an ice bath.

Any suggestions or pictures of other similar systems?

Been pitching yeast at 80-90 degrees with good results but I know it's not ideal.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I did exactly this two-step process this last weekend. I was doing my first lager and used my normal IC setup to get my wort to ~ 70F, then I setup a second IC in an ice-bath cooler as a 'pre-chiller'. It took me about 45 minutes longer with really low flow but i got the wort down to 55F.

That took to long so I bought a small pump on amazon http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006M6MTMI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I plan to use this pump with my primary IC and just cycle the icewater around, I was losing to many BTUs continually chilling the city water down with the ice.

With that said if you only want to get to 65-70, i bet the two step without a pump would work well.

Cheers!

 

[billl]

I did that. My tap water was 85 degrees for my last brew, so I hear ya. I usually just let it run until its down to 100 or so before I add the ice water to the pre-chiller portion. I added quick disconnects so I could easily remove all that tubing as well as easily change the flow in winter months.

Having used that for a couple years now, I'm considering just getting a cheapo pump and recirculating ice water directly though the main chiller. eg run from the hose to the chiller until it gets down to 100 or so. Then connect to a submersion pump in a bucket of icewater to bring it the rest of the way down. I suspect the pump will pay for itself in reduced water usage.

 

[catalanotte]

Also considering the pump option but am trying to minimize costs. Need the longer coil either way. Let me know how the Amazon pump works. Thanks.

 

[balrog]

I really want to try two stage and will be patterning my efforts after this JaDed system. You can review what they did and get some tips.

I also found this thread on HBT with some tips.

 

[jbaysurfer]

I have a homemade 25 ft coil immersion chiller that I have used for years with partial boil extract batches with great results. Basic tap water system, no re circulation pump. Shifted to full boil all-grain and the coil just can't get it done anymore. Only cools to about 100 in 15 minutes then stalls out. Tap water just isn't cold enough.

Has anyone tried a 2 stage cooler with one coil chilling tap water through an ice bath and the second cooling the wort?

I am thinking about adding a 60 ft coil to serve and the main coil in the kettle and using the old 25 ft coil as a pre-chiller in an ice bath.

Any suggestions or pictures of other similar systems?

Been pitching yeast at 80-90 degrees with good results but I know it's not ideal.

Done it. Moved onto the pond pump ice bucket method. Way faster, way less water waste.

 

[balrog]

Done it. Moved onto the pond pump ice bucket method. Way faster, way less water waste.

Would love specifics. What pump, how plumbed, specific steps, etc

 

[jbaysurfer]

Would love specifics. What pump, how plumbed, specific steps, etc

It's been covered ad nauseum here, but in a nutshell, you use ground water to cool to 100F. You put 10lbs of ice in a bucket and just enough water to cover the inlet for the pond pump. This one would do: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0018X2XT4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Use the barbed fittings provided and a some water hose fittings from the hardware store along with a short length of tubing to make the pump outlet fit your immersion chiller inlet.

Hook the pump up to the IC, put the pump in the ice water. Recirculate until you get to pitch temp or need to add more ice. I usually take some water out when I add ice a second time. Whirlpool the wort, agitate the ice water til pitch temp. All done.

It's not all that different then what they're doing on that video linked earlier in the thread (Jaded).

Google around, there's dozens of threads I bet. It's not all that complicated. Basically you're replacing ground water with ice water in the IC once the temp gets below 100F (the temp at which people will start using the ice water varies).

 

[balrog]

It's been covered ad nauseum here,

Google around, there's dozens of threads I bet.

Thanks very much. The trouble is that it HAS been covered, many ways, and there are some whose opinions I think better than others 😊 And Google seems to make matters worse. It is not unlike learning to play golf...ask 3 people for advice and get 17,000 conflicting answers.

So, thanks very much, especially for the pump size, and hookup and esp water amounts. Must now buy copper...

 

[jbaysurfer]

No worries. I'm not the kind of poster that's always telling people to "google it", so I hope it didn't come off as dismissive, I just know that I learned it on this site, so I wanted you to know that my short post isn't all you have in terms of resources.

 

[MindenMan]

How much volume does the pump need to have? Will this one do?


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EWENKXO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[jbaysurfer]

How much volume does the pump need to have? Will this one do?


http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EWENKXO/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Not IMHO. I have one thats' supposed to be 120gph and if I had it to do over again I'd like it to have twice as much power. For an extra 15 bucks or so, it's worth it to get the better pump. It'll likely last much longer too...

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

mine is a 291 gph pump, but I thought I read at those temperatures (when the delta T is not drastically large) you actually want a lower flow. Thus i used the adjustable inlet and was getting about 1/2 GPM from my pump.

I just did my first batch in my keggle yesterday (13 gal post boil), did my 25' immersion coil with city water to get to ~90F, then my pump and ice-water cooler brought it down to 65 in another 10-15 minutes, worked great and I liked having so much less water waste.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006M6MTMI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
this is the pump I used, can't beat it for the price IMO.

 

[billl]

mine is a 291 gph pump, but I thought I read at those temperatures (when the delta T is not drastically large) you actually want a lower flow. Thus i used the adjustable inlet and was getting about 1/2 GPM from my pump.

I just did my first batch in my keggle yesterday (13 gal post boil), did my 25' immersion coil with city water to get to ~90F, then my pump and ice-water cooler brought it down to 65 in another 10-15 minutes, worked great and I liked having so much less water waste.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006M6MTMI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
this is the pump I used, can't beat it for the price IMO.

No, you always want the fasted flow possible for fastest cooling. The second the ice water hits the chiller, it starts to warm up. The warmer it gets, the less effectively it chills. The faster you can cycle water though, the faster you will cool the wort. That will be true whenever the chill water is at a fixed temp.

If you are using a pre-chiller and not circulating ice water directly, then there would be a balancing act between letting the water cool down more in the prechiller vs the benefits of higher flow in the main chiller.

 

[jbaysurfer]

mine is a 291 gph pump, but I thought I read at those temperatures (when the delta T is not drastically large) you actually want a lower flow. Thus i used the adjustable inlet and was getting about 1/2 GPM from my pump.

I just did my first batch in my keggle yesterday (13 gal post boil), did my 25' immersion coil with city water to get to ~90F, then my pump and ice-water cooler brought it down to 65 in another 10-15 minutes, worked great and I liked having so much less water waste.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006M6MTMI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
this is the pump I used, can't beat it for the price IMO.

That one works great and gets great reviews. If you want a little more flow, this one is 6 bucks more for another 100G of flow....
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018X2XT4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Thanks_Yeasties]

Has anyone tried a 2 stage cooler with one coil chilling tap water through an ice bath and the second cooling the wort?

I recently made one myself. I have 50' coiled for the kettle hooked to another 15' (I think) coiled up that i drop in a small ice water filled cooler. Hooked together with beverage tube and clamps, that hook up to my garden hose.

I've used it a few times now with great results. These were my first uses of any immersion chiller so I really have no baseline to measure my results against, but compared to an ice water bath I'm happy!


Note, I do run off well water that starts off decently cold and I have a very high pressure flow from my hose. Also, I am doing ~5 gal boils.

 

[balrog]

I'm going to go the "recirculate 5G bucket tapwater, then recirculate 5G bucket icewater" method because I **KNOW** I'm using a **LOT** of water just with the brew-kettle in sink with water changes, last time with ice.

I would think recirculating a pool of icewater through a single coil immersed in wort, means thermal exchange with copper only happens once, and thermal exchange with pool of water would be more efficient than another copper coil in the same icewater. As it is now, I have no immersion chiller, so anything would be better but the system on this video is what I'm shooting for. I just don't think I have the $120 to get it versus making something.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

No, you always want the fasted flow possible for fastest cooling. The second the ice water hits the chiller, it starts to warm up. The warmer it gets, the less effectively it chills. The faster you can cycle water though, the faster you will cool the wort. That will be true whenever the chill water is at a fixed temp.

If you are using a pre-chiller and not circulating ice water directly, then there would be a balancing act between letting the water cool down more in the prechiller vs the benefits of higher flow in the main chiller.

Yeah that makes sense now that you mention it, i was still thinking along the lines of the two-stage process i used last time! Thanks for the tip i'll up my flow significantly next time.

 

[oakbarn]

We have used every IC trick in the book. Finally bought a Duda Diesel Plate chiller and a cheap sump pump. Found a 5 cu ft chest freezer cheap on Craig List. Fill it up the night before brewing and turn it on. 5 cu ft of 44 degree water the next morning! If I was not so lazy, I could figure out how many millimeters of water that was. It works great. We only have to do this in the summer. In August, I have to pre chill the wort with hose water (85 degrees) to get the wort down to about 160 before switching to the chilled water. I have thought of a two stage plate chiller where the first on get hose water and the second one the chilled water. It just money!